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Old 31st May 2016, 18:14   #121
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Fiat does not sell Punto with Vectras. It is OD which replaced the 'average' Apollos with 'bad' Vectras.
FYI, Figos (in the top spec titanium plus) are sold with Apollos as well.

So, "OD replaced the 'average' Apollos with 'bad' Vectras". Blasphemy!

BTW I know how crappy the JK Vectras are. But bringing that into the picture for comparing the results is like asking what the track temperature was. Or the million other parameters that affect the lap time.

Nothing in this world can be taken at face value, but no amount of analysis or explanation can refute the fact that the Abarth did not play up to it's potential and the Figo is punching above its weight. That's all that we should take away from this comparo.

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Old 31st May 2016, 18:17   #122
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
But it's considered pedantic to discuss about the tyres regarding which Aditya who tested it has commented. Even Bert recommended better tyres, while Rishaad complained of suspension, bucket seats and wheelspin through corners (tyres again!). Overdrive tests are welcome, overdrive results are welcome, but overdrive observations are thrown out for own observations and agenda.
Like I said, what is the solution? Name a performance tyre mate that comes in every single stock tyre size for the cars here, go ahead! I admitted that it would be ideal it isn't like I ignored observations or anything like that. All I am pointing out, is that we simply do not have the available resources.

Having had tons of experience myself, I admit that this shootout does not encapsulate all that is possible. If we all sourced these cars and had a budget that allowed for optimizing engine performance for given gear ratios, tyres for optimal performance etc. we may truly be able to test the potential that these cars have, but as a representative of fully stock performance on the track, it does not get any better than this.

Anyway I feel we enthusiasts will never be satisfied comparing diluted fuel efficient warm hatchbacks on the track because we know that with a few basic tweaks we can extract more The time has come for our country to get a crop of hot hatches.

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Old 31st May 2016, 18:32   #123
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post

Nothing in this world can be taken at face value, but no amount of analysis or explanation can refute the fact that the Abarth did not play up to it's potential and the Figo is punching above its weight. That's all that we should take away from this comparo.
True, and don't forget the humble Baleno, which is good news for those like me who are waiting for the boosterjet version.
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Old 31st May 2016, 18:33   #124
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
FYI, Figos (in the top spec titanium plus) are sold with Apollos as well.

So, "OD replaced the 'average' Apollos with 'bad' Vectras". Blasphemy!

BTW I know how crappy the JK Vectras are. But bringing that into the picture for comparing the results is like asking what the track temperature was. Or the million other parameters that affect the lap time.


[/b]
Where did I say that Figo is the beneficiary of this tyre standardization?

My comment is for the Punto Abarth. The Punto could have posted a better time with it's stock tyres. And even better times with grippy tyres. There is no denying that fact.

Same applies for Figo as well. In it's stock tyres, it could have posted better time also.

As you say figo also comes with better rubber as stock.
So, OD has indeed replaced 'average' rubber with 'bad' rubber for both Figo and Punto. It will be a mystery now, to figure out which car suffered more due to the tyre change.
What is the blasphemy here?
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Old 31st May 2016, 18:55   #125
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Like I said, what is the solution? Name a performance tyre mate that comes in every single stock tyre size for the cars here, go ahead! I admitted that it would be ideal it isn't like I ignored observations or anything like that. All I am pointing out, is that we simply do not have the available resources.

Having had tons of experience myself, I admit that this shootout does not encapsulate all that is possible. If we all sourced these cars and had a budget that allowed for optimizing engine performance for given gear ratios, tyres for optimal performance etc. we may truly be able to test the potential that these cars have, but as a representative of fully stock performance on the track, it does not get any better than this.
Haha... You are right buddy. Even if I point out a tyre, we can neither sponsor nor test it. The only real world solution is to accept the facts as is reported by overdrive. All of the facts - the results, the test conditions and their observations. Including the fact that tyres were limiting the Punto Abarth, and the plain fact that Figo won in the given conditions.

Both plain simple facts from their own words. Instead member posts seem to reflect either of the two scenarios, for and against in circles. Support for and against their preferred brands instead of just accepting the facts from the OD test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
Abarth did not play up to it's potential

the Figo is punching above its weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Anyway I feel we enthusiasts will never be satisfied comparing diluted fuel efficient warm hatchbacks on the track because we know that with a few basic tweaks we can extract more The time has come for our country to get a crop of hot hatches.
True. But sadly we won't be getting any! The Polo GT is the closest to it, but will again be limited to only the DSG option.

Baleno RS might bring another warm hatch proposition to the table though! What we really need though was this, 140hp, 1000kg or less, manual transmission and Maruti Suzuki support - http://m.autocarindia.com/Article.aspx?CIID=402110&type=News

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 31st May 2016 at 18:58.
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Old 31st May 2016, 19:13   #126
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

My last post on this thread.

Just read the Overdrive review of the Abarth on the net and it states that

"One also has to short shift to avoid wheel spin"

meaning they couldn't use all the power available, which I assume is an issue with undersized tyres struggling for traction and getting overwhelmed by the midrange torque.

A problem that can easily be fixed if it's just the tyres, but whatever the reason should have been done right the first time around by Fiat.

http://overdrive.in/reviews/affordab...-punto-abarth/
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Old 31st May 2016, 19:27   #127
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

9 pages and seems like this thread is going nowhere!!

Honestly, its just completely beyond me why people are almost taking a personal offence on the fact that Figo TDCI was faster than Abarth Punto on this day. Even if it was, we are going ballistic over the result and all this for a mere 0.1 second ?? Really??

I am sure even Ford & Fiat Engineers could care less about this, but some of us seem to be getting offended for nothing.

One thing is for sure:

OD folks themselves wouldn't have guessed that one of their shootouts would stir up a hornets nest on Team BHP.

Free brand campaign anyone??

Last edited by bblost : 31st May 2016 at 23:26. Reason: Removed extra smiley. No more than 2 per post. Thanks.
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Old 31st May 2016, 19:50   #128
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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
:
I am sure even Ford & Fiat Engineers could care less about this
Haha. True. I guess Ford and FIAT results are the most debated since that came in as a surprise to many. And there is a dearth of warm hatchbacks in the market anyways.

Others are as slow / fast as expected, with only Baleno which seemed to have surprised some thanks to its light weight, and the GT which disappointed some thanks to the automatic gearbox.

That said, I've asked earlier in the thread- Honda Jazz diesel was the third most powerful car in the test, but lost by a big margin. Wondering if it's the chassis or suspension or gearing at fault here. Question got missed in the heated top spot debate. Guess it's high time we discussed other cars too!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 31st May 2016 at 20:14.
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Old 31st May 2016, 21:13   #129
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

When I used to drive in my GT TSI through the ORR in the evening traffic, and do all possible acrobatics with the paddle shifter, I used to feel like a king, looking at other cars, including Balenos and Puntos. But after reading this, I am demoralized and disheartened, even seeing a Figo! I used to feel like I was always wearing a Raymonds suit and today I understood that I am actually dressed like Gandhi.

Ohh I never thought it would have performed so poor in track.
Losing is one thing and losing by a faar distance is something really bad.

Last edited by petrol_power : 31st May 2016 at 21:15.
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Old 31st May 2016, 21:33   #130
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Originally Posted by petrol_power View Post
Losing is one thing and losing by a faar distance is something really bad.
It's still the second fastest petrol hatchback out there and the fastest automatic, being significantly faster than the other automatic- Figo DCT despite the 7bhp disadvantage on paper.

1. Punto Abarth - 1:21.3
2. Polo GT TSI - 1:24.1
3. Baleno petrol - 1:24.4
8. Figo DCT - 1:25.3
9. Elite i20 Petrol - 1:25.7
10. Jazz Petrol - 1:26.7
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Old 31st May 2016, 21:41   #131
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
My last post on this thread.

Just read the Overdrive review of the Abarth on the net and it states that

"One also has to short shift to avoid wheel spin"

meaning they couldn't use all the power available, which I assume is an issue with undersized tyres struggling for traction and getting overwhelmed by the midrange torque.

A problem that can easily be fixed if it's just the tyres, but whatever the reason should have been done right the first time around by Fiat.
Actually that's true. The Abarth gets 195 tyres which are the same as the Elite i20 and the Baleno but the Abarth has nearly 60BHP more than these 2!

Whether it runs on JK or Apollo is actually pointless if the car is under tyres.

Most of these cars come with Apollo, MRF or JK as stock. Fitting all of them with JK will hardly make a difference as all the 3 brands whether MRF, Apollo or JK are strictly commuter tyres. The MRF ZV2K are probably the worst, followed by the JK Vectra and the Apollo Alnac 4G being the better amongst these entry level tyres.

No manufacturer gives performance sticky rubber, the focus is on mileage and longevity.
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Old 31st May 2016, 21:53   #132
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

I'd believe the GT TSi fares poorly on-track primarily because of electronics superseding/overriding driver input during spirited, on-the-limit driving.

Be interesting to see how it would do if there was an 'all assists off' mode, unleashing the true capabilities of the DSG. The soft suspension would probably still be a fly in the ointment, but the car itself I'd presume would do much better overall.
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Old 31st May 2016, 22:38   #133
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
9 pages and seems like this thread is going nowhere!!

Honestly, its just completely beyond me why people are almost taking a personal offence on the fact that Figo TDCI was faster than Abarth Punto on this day. Even if it was, we are going ballistic over the result and all this for a mere 0.1 second ?? Really??

I am sure even Ford & Fiat Engineers could care less about this, but some of us seem to be getting offended for nothing.
True that.. This based on times from one circuit in the country which can never lead to anything conclusive. Even though I love the abarth for what it has to offer for us "affordability" minded enthusiasts, I'm really glad to see the figo beat it here. It just makes the whole prospect of "which is faster" more exciting! Hopefully, this will increase awareness amongst the aam-junta regarding performance versions a lot more and manufacturers will be encouraged to bring their truly hot hatches from around the world.

As someone suggested earlier, I'd love to see these cars go head to head again, with better tyres, on the BIC! Someone please make that happen!
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Old 31st May 2016, 23:10   #134
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
IThe soft suspension would probably still be a fly in the ointment, but the car itself I'd presume would do much better overall.
The soft suspension in Polo would always give a brilliant ride quality but it would take it nowhere on the track where any car with a soft suspension would struggle. VW does not give an option to completely switch off the ESP in any of its cars so it is impossible to switch off the electronics unless you tweak with the vag com etc. The dsg also has its disadvantages where it hesitates to downshift though the up shifts are super quick.

VW need to really tweak the suspension on GT variants, they are opting for a softer set up year after year and this is irritating. If Maruti had opted for a softer set up for Baleno, it makes sense but do not know why VW is going so soft on the GT variants, yes a good ride is a positive but most of the owners buy GT Tsi for its performance and it is stupid to match performance with a soft setup.

I am might mighty impressed with the Baleno. Maruti can satisfy the common man and they can also satisfy the enthusiasts, it really is an all rounder barring the poor build. Even with a not so powerful diesel/petrol, it is right up there, must be due to the engine tuning, agile chassis and solid dynamics.
Baleno diesel being faster than the Polo GT TSi with a high tech 7 speed dsg, would take time for me to digest that, oh VW, please stiffen the car up.

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Old 1st June 2016, 00:16   #135
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Default re: Overdrive's hatchback track test - Figo 1.5 diesel quickest!

The way the Abarth was marketed, I expected it to beat any car by a wide margin, not lose to the Figo. Standardisation should have cost a bit of time, but it still should have been faster than anything out there. It must have been a blow to the egos and all this bickering is because the Fiat fans are hurting. Anybody would be if you lose to a car that costs just half as much as your car.

I wonder why the Figo 1.2 Petrol wasn't tested.
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