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Old 14th June 2016, 09:48   #16
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

There's always space for the Lexus in the market. Over time, it has established itself as a superior to Toyota and proves an alternative to the customer who has the wallet power to go premium but would think too many times before buying a Camry/Hybrid given the more appealing alternatives.

But, from what I know - there's a Lexus dealership opening in Chennai at quite an upmarket neighborhood.
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Old 14th June 2016, 11:23   #17
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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Prado and the Landcruiser 200 are 'Toyota' products. They won't sell at high prices considering that the top of the line German SUVs are priced significantly lower.
Prado is a non-seller primarily due to the small engine , had they plonked any 6 Cylinder Diesel it would have been doing decent numbers. LC is doing ok for the price , I think they average about 10+ units every month despite the high prices and bare basic interiors. Not only has Toyota increased prices in past few years but also removed many extras which were available till 2013 like Air Suspension / Height adjustment.
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The Lexus brand has a lot of fans, especially those people who've lived/traveled extensively in the middle east. This car will be priced right in A6 and E class territory.
Given the CBU & the way Toyota imports at Fair value instead of costs like other Germans , these cars should be considerably expensive than Germans. There USP can be Hybrids but it remains to be seen if customers will pay that much extra for Lexus over European Diesels.
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The dealer did tell me that the starting price for a Lexus (Did not specify the model) will be 80lac!
He is not very far, Pioneer in Chandigarh & MGF in Gurgaon will be representing Lexus in North and going by my contacts, starting range from Lexus will be around 60-65 Lac. I hope Government does come with some different Import policy for Hybrid cars before they launch.

Quote:
I don't think we'll see a diesel SUV anytime soon.
If you have close to 2 Crores, you can actually go ahead and book one for delivery in initial lot. There will be a V8 Diesel at Launch and I won't dispute 2 Crore mark either given the price of Toyota LC @ 1,40

Last edited by Turbanator : 14th June 2016 at 11:25.
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Old 14th June 2016, 12:33   #18
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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
He is not very far, Pioneer in Chandigarh & MGF in Gurgaon will be representing Lexus in North and going by my contacts, starting range from Lexus will be around 60-65 Lac. I hope Government does come with some different Import policy for Hybrid cars before they launch.

If you have close to 2 Crores, you can actually go ahead and book one for delivery in initial lot. There will be a V8 Diesel at Launch and I won't dispute 2 Crore mark either given the price of Toyota LC @ 1,40

I was told by my dealer Grace Toyota, that they're opening the Lexus showroom at Oberoi Gurgaon. So I'm not sure if MGF will have Lexus too.

I was also told that since Lexus doesn't offer a diesel LX anywhere in the world, they will most probably be getting the V8 petrol. But they also said that a Diesel engine will also be available. They weren't clear on this themselves. The dealer also said that they've recommended to have both engine options.

I would love to trade in my LC200 for a LX570 petrol, if it's available.
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Old 14th June 2016, 13:52   #19
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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I was told by my dealer Grace Toyota, that they're opening the Lexus showroom at Oberoi Gurgaon. So I'm not sure if MGF will have Lexus too
You will be correct, I have second-hand information from Chandigarh contact Only 2 Guys in North as of now.

Quote:
Lexus doesn't offer a diesel LX anywhere in the world, they will most probably be getting the V8 petrol
It's a confirmed as things stand now , I will try to send you spec sheet if I get , have seen personally on IPad. Put me in Queue for your LC
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Old 14th June 2016, 18:36   #20
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

The ES doesn't compete with the A6, 5 and E - That job is for the GS. The ES is not a sport sedan by any stretch of imagination - it is a better built luxurious version of the Avalon. It will probably be priced at 320d levels - maybe 40l.
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Old 14th June 2016, 19:48   #21
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

From what i read above, would this car just an overpriced Camry? The reviews in international magazines do not have any standout points. Motortrend even talks of harsh ride quality. (Frankly never expected to read such a review)

Would people pay so much money just to stand out as Lexus owners in a price brand of 40 Lakhs or so as anticipated above in the forum. Would it not have been better if Lexus had tried a top down approach with the LS. Most of imported Lexus i have seen in Kerala are either LS or RX series. Probably there is a higher flaunt value to have unique purchases in that price category.
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Old 14th June 2016, 20:44   #22
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In Mumbai Millenium is getting the Lexus dealership as per my service advisor.
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Old 14th June 2016, 21:50   #23
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
From the few reviews and pics I could see, I don't think this cars offer that much over a Camry. If I had to shell out an extra 8-10 lakh for this car, I'd probably save the cash and buy a hybrid Camry instead.
I have driven it a bit in the US. It is far more luxurious than the Camry. They are in two vastly different classes. It is like saying a Volkswagen is the same as an Audi. Even though the VW offers similar and in some cases better features, the Audi is generally much more luxurious.The Camry might be a smarter buy but if you are looking for a luxury automobiles, the Lexus is your car.
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Old 15th June 2016, 17:06   #24
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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Originally Posted by rohitoasis View Post
Would people pay so much money just to stand out as Lexus owners
Thanks to a certain Mr. Harshad Mehta who started off the craze, Lexus (as a brand) does enjoy a premium image among the elite & socialites of India. Lexus will be welcomed here more than in Europe where they have their own luxury brands (and scoff at newbies with no heritage).

Lexus might also appeal to those who are looking at a brand that's more understated and / or more reliable. Toyota owners are generally a happy lot and Toyota could well target existing Fortuner / Camry owners.

Considering that even the mighty Germans have to resort to heavy discounting (10 lakhs off E-Class, 5-Series & A6), Toyota better play it safe with the pricing. Else, it's going to be dead on arrival.

The only thing that makes me afraid is Toyota's historical overpricing of CBU models. The Prado went from being a 45 lakh SUV to one that costs a crore today . Seriously, 1.2 crores! You can buy competing Mercedes, BMW & Audi SUVs for less money.
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Old 15th June 2016, 17:26   #25
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

The ES isn't competition for the E, 5 or A6, it's a slightly better Camry , and even the GS that is supposed to directly compete is quite unremarkable (according to the Chairman of Toyota no less, he asked the engineers why they bothered to keep development on it going for so long). Toyota should get the RX hybrid and the NX,I don't know if the latter has hybrid tech. The RX has a cushy ride, Toyota reliability and the grill looks like it's been wrapped in silver foil, the last one is the ace up its sleeve , unlike the sedans, boot space isn't compromised by the battery.
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Old 15th June 2016, 19:51   #26
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

1. Given the fact that Lexus will not make it's 'core' models outside Japan, am afraid they will have to go through the CBU route, which has been made all the more haphazard by TKM themselves with the LC and Prado pricing which doesn't give much room for the LX and GX respectively.

2. Lexus won't launch diesels just for the Indian market, that's for sure. Even if by some magic they do, they may plonk in the 2.8GD in the Prado and V8 1VD in the LC200. Both unlikely, especially given the size of our market.

3. TKM can very well launch the MC platform Lexuses (Lexuss,Lexusi?), namely the CT,HS,NX. But being small in size, they won't be good for the companys' image, especially to the new customers who are not much aware of the brand.

4. The ES may look like a poor choice, given the presence of other models in the line-up , all with hybrid engines. But, one differentiating factor that the ES, as well as the RX has, is that both of them are the only ones to be assembled outside of Japan ( in USA and Canada), which makes them very good candidates for local assembly like the Camry hybrid in India. Just my two paisa

5. And just for quick comparison to SE Asian markets that mostly have prices close to us. Taking case of Thailand and Malaysian markets.

*All models are imported from Japan and am giving the hybrids pricing only for Thailand.

Thailand

IS 300h - 58 lakhs - 20.4km/l
ES 300h - 67 lakhs - 21.8km/l
GS 300h - 92 lakhs - 18.18km/l. Both the ES300h and GS300h have the Camry hybrid engine in different tunes
GS 450h V6 - 1.54 crores - 15.63km/l
LS 600h V8 - 2.62 lakhs - 18.18km/l

NX 300h - 54 lakhs - 18.45km/l
RX 450h - 1.45 crores - 16.67km/l

The cheapest hybrid is the CT 200h at 38 lakhs - 26.3km/l - a fancy Prius if you will.

The petrol engines are cheaper by a good margin.

In Malaysia, the range on offer is almost complete, except for the GX.

Here, am giving the price range; from the cheapest model to the hybrid models. [ Except for the areas of Langkawi and Labuan, which looks like duty free zones. For eg. The IS 200t costs 30 lakhs in the above said provinces, but costs 50 lakhs in the rest of Malaysia ]

IS - 48-74 lakhs
ES - 45-60 lakhs
GS - 71 lakhs to 1 crore
LS - 1.3 - 1.9 crores

NX - 50-65 lakhs
RX - 63-85 lakhs
LX - 1.5 crores for the V8 petrol


Just mentioned the prices. as if TKM decides to launch all models as CBU, prices can be expected roughly around these figures.

Last edited by DicKy : 15th June 2016 at 19:56.
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Old 15th June 2016, 20:38   #27
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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Lexus won't launch diesels just for the Indian market, that's for sure. Even if by some magic they do, they may plonk in the 2.8GD in the Prado and V8 1VD in the LC200. Both unlikely, especially given the size of our market
2,8 GD is already standard on Prado in the overseas market including Australia , they replaced 3,0 with this last year. I don't know what keeps them away from launching this in the Indian market though , probably extreme low numbers - Prado sells 1/10 or less than LC here which can be the reason. Lexus has no plans to Launch Prado aka GX in Diesel version here.

Regarding bigger LX (LC), Lexus does sell Diesel in Russian and few other markets , they did some trials for Australian market as well but have presently dropped for some reasons

Have a look
http://www.lexus.ru/car-models/lx/lx-450d/#Introduction

http://www.motoring.com.au/lexus-lx-...-diesel-54646/


RX in Petrol and Hybrid - Both models are confirmed for Launch , I didn't pay attention to Cars but will surely look next time when I get chance , probably Lexus should also concentrate more on SUV's over Sedans given the highly competitive sedan market

Last edited by Turbanator : 15th June 2016 at 20:44.
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Old 16th June 2016, 11:02   #28
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

Introduction of new brands in luxury segments are always welcomed & appreciated in India.

The desirability quotient for German brands have reduced today as compared to 7-8 years ago, today brands like Jaguar are finding that unique/ differentiating status as compared to German brands. Porsche is also one such brand in the making, with introduction of cars like Cayenne & Panamera its finding more buyers in India which offers a unique ownership experience.

Lexus too will find its niche customers, it may not compete with German brands in terms of sales numbers, but will certainly attract a set of customers. Lexus does have products that can compete well with others in luxury segment.

All in all, its good to see Indian luxury car market maturing but its still a long way !
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Old 16th June 2016, 12:43   #29
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Default Re: Toyota India imports an ES300h - First offering from Lexus?

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Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
2. Lexus won't launch diesels just for the Indian market, that's for sure. Even if by some magic they do, they may plonk in the 2.8GD in the Prado and V8 1VD in the LC200. Both unlikely, especially given the size of our market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
2,8 GD is already standard on Prado in the overseas market including Australia

My bad

I meant the 2.8GD in the Lexus GX and 4.5 1VD in the Lexus LX



Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Regarding bigger LX (LC), Lexus does sell Diesel in Russian and few other markets , they did some trials for Australian market as well but have presently dropped for some reasons

Have a look
http://www.lexus.ru/car-models/lx/lx-450d/#Introduction

http://www.motoring.com.au/lexus-lx-...-diesel-54646/

Ooh, that's a news for me. Thanks.
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Old 16th June 2016, 15:32   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Have a look
http://www.lexus.ru/car-models/lx/lx-450d/#Introduction

http://www.motoring.com.au/lexus-lx-...-diesel-54646/


RX in Petrol and Hybrid - Both models are confirmed for Launch , I didn't pay attention to Cars but will surely look next time when I get chance , probably Lexus should also concentrate more on SUV's over Sedans given the highly competitive sedan market


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Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Ooh, that's a news for me. Thanks.

It's also available as LX 450d in New Zealand. Now I have serious doubts of the LX 570 making it to India.
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