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Old 7th July 2016, 18:17   #31
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Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post

But now the petrol/diesel price difference is around 10 rupees only. And price difference between a petrol/diesel car of same model has gone up. Ex: Difference between a top end Baleno Diesel/Petrol is 1.4L. So, the situation is not the same anymore. People will have to do little bit of math before taking a decision.
Fuel efficiency also plays a major role in calculations. Despite the fall in the difference of prices between petrol and diesel, diesel cars are still quite a lot more efficient than their petrol counterparts which still make them an easier choice.
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Old 7th July 2016, 18:48   #32
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
5 years back..

between a petrol/diesel car of same model has gone up. Ex: Difference between a top end Baleno Diesel/Petrol is 1.4L. So, the situation is not the same anymore. People will have to do little bit of math before taking a decision.
The difference in price notwithstanding, diesels are more efficient, sometimes by upto 100%,for the same model. Rising pollution means AC has to be on all the time, the sun film ban means higher load on the ac, safety norms will increase the weight of new cars. Petrol engines are sensitive to both speed and load, the superior performance comes at the cost of fuel consumption.

The Baleno price includes the premium charged by the manufacturer for licensing the engine, it doesn't apply in all cases, your friend would have been better off with a diesel engine if his running is around 1500 a month, the average of 16 is too optimistic for any car that's bigger than an Alto.
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Old 7th July 2016, 20:00   #33
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Default Re: A quick calculation: Baleno Petrol Vs Baleno Diesel

Almost across segments, diesel engines are much better performers. With exception of probably the City, everything else has a better diesel motor - often way better in terms of performance and, of course, FE.

Also, the difference in FE will widen with spirited driving. I drive with heavy foot and still my S CRoss gave around 19 for Manali-Delhi run - including incredibly bad Delhi traffic in evening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
One of my friend has booked a Baleno Diesel and is waiting for the delivery since February and NEXA informed him that it may take another 2-3 months. However yesterday they called him and updated that they can deliver a petrol variant much earlier. So, he asked me for suggestion.

A quick calculation and we found that he is a clear candidate for a Petrol.

His expected usage per month: 1000Kms (70-80% usage on highway), but in the below calculation we considered 1500 Kms.
He plans to keep this car for max 3-4 years

So, expected total usage for 4 years is 1500 Kms * 48 Months = 72000 Kms

Baleno Petrol:

Average Fuel Efficiency: 16 (indicative)
72000/16 = 4500 Litres of Petrol
Total Expense on Fuel: 4500 * 69 = 3,10,500

Baleno Diesel:

Average Fuel Efficiency: 20
72000/20 = 3600 Litres of Diesel
Total Expense on Fuel: 3600 * 58 = 2,08,800

Savings on Fuel (Diesel): 3,10,500(Petrol) - 2,08,800(Diesel) = 1,01,700

So, after 4 years the savings for a diesel car based on the fuel expense is 1,01,700. But initially you have to pay 1.4L more for a diesel car. So, to reach the break even point, it takes at least 6 years based on his usage. This will go up further, if you consider the additional interest/EMI for the extra 1.4L and the maintenance charges.

After this calculation he was super happy to confirm the petrol car. So, still there are people who are blindly picking a diesel car thinking they are going to save on fuel.

This is just a indicative calculation with approx figures. Even if there is increase in petrol price or decrease in diesel price, its not going to make a big difference.

Note: The interest amount for the difference amount of 1.4L is coming to 30K for a 4 year duration.
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Old 7th July 2016, 20:22   #34
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The Baleno price includes the premium charged by the manufacturer for licensing the engine, it doesn't apply in all cases, your friend would have been better off with a diesel engine if his running is around 1500 a month, the average of 16 is too optimistic for any car that's bigger than an Alto.
His expected usage is 1000 Kms only, another 500 Kms was added as a buffer(I have mentioned this in my first post itself). So, if we are trying to be more accurate with the calculation, then we can bring down the average usage to 1000Kms and FE to 14. But still the end result will be the same.

I am not trying to prove a point here. In my opinion, it is not worth to go behind diesel cars blindly thinking that its cheaper. Even petrol gives better FE these days. For Baleno petrol, people have reported FE of 17-18 Kmpl.

Last edited by arun_josie : 7th July 2016 at 20:24.
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Old 7th July 2016, 21:34   #35
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Even when the gap between petrol and diesel siblings is the lowest it has been in years, there still exists hope for diesels and a diesel car will break even in about 5 years if you run about 1500-1700 kms a month. This calculation though factors in the premium resale value that diesels have demanded over the years. But this 10 year diesel phase out rule will take its toll on diesel resale values for sure and it will be hard to justify buying a diesel in areas where this 10 year rule is implemented since their resale values will fall off a cliff after say 5 years. If no difference exists between diesel and petrol resale values then a small diesel hatch would be required to run over 2000 kms a month to break even in 5 years. I drive the new figo diesel and my yearly mileage is about 15000 kms a year but if I were in the market now I would surely get a petrol for this sort of mileage.
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Old 8th July 2016, 09:30   #36
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Hyundai Motor India reports a drop in diesel car sales by 10-15% in the first 6 months of 2016. (link)

Hyundai Motor chief executive, Y K Koo:

Quote:
"Across the country, diesel vehicle sales are down as customers prefer petrol variants. From nearly one in every two cars sold around four years back, the share of diesel cars in total sales has now come down to just a quarter, i.e, one in four."
Interestingly, despite this drop in diesel vehicle sales, Hyundai Motor India has reported a 10% increase in monthly sales in June 2016, and a 1.1% increase in market share for the first six months of 2016 (compared to last year's numbers).
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Old 8th July 2016, 09:40   #37
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

I don't know if it holds good in diesel petrol debate or not because none of the products is inferior here, yet if I am allowed to say in a crude form - "Mehga roye ek bar sasta roye bar bar".

Yes all the explanations of higher price difference between petrol and diesel are correct; yet whenever one visits fuel bunk with diesel car, there is a definite smile on the face which essentially comprises of
- What a performance and how good my drive was !
- When did I last fill up my tank...oops I don't remember may be 15 days or more?
Both of these miss in petrol cars (atleast in majority of cases) - of may be you may get 1 (either performance or efficiency not both !)

And I certainly beg to differ in the breakeven calculations.

If the cost differential in the initial purchase is 1.5 Lac and the cost differential in resale is say 0.8 Lac; I should be doing the calculations for 0.7 Lac of initial investment (keeping the interest earned over investment at a bay)

So the breakeven should happen in close to 3 years at max and not 5, and sheer happiness of driving a better motor - priceless !

Last edited by i74js : 8th July 2016 at 09:48.
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Old 8th July 2016, 10:06   #38
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Many miss the part of how family's dynamics change in 5 years !
Take my case. I bought the Beat Diesel in October 2012, with additional cost of 85k, but at that time I was single, had enough money to 'splurge' and had no investments or any commitments and living with my parents so cost of living was not much !
Today I am married, have a own house for which I am paying big amount of loan and paying all the bills and I drive my wife's Brio to office (Beat is with my dad but I keep swapping rides with him ). Expenses in general have increased many-fold.
It pains when you know how frequently you have to visit the pump when driving a petrol car compared to a diesel. I really dont think much about saving those 90k five years back as salary has also increased by considerable amount.

I think it all boils down to the timing of buying the right car under the right conditions. I am happy that I got the Beat Diesel then, it might not have reached the 'break-even' but for my retired dad, its easy on his pocket. Today, a diesel car wont make any sense to me. I plan to keep the Beat diesel till its end of useful life.

And Yes, I dont understand why people consider a diesel car's maintenance on the higher side. Our Beat's maintenance costs the same as the Santro or Zen we have in our family.

Last edited by NiInJa : 8th July 2016 at 10:07.
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Old 8th July 2016, 14:11   #39
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

If price parity is established between petrol and diesel fuel, i doubt the resale value "premium" the diesel cars enjoy today will remain in future.

People looking for ease of driving, have a choice of petrol automatic. People looking for fuel efficiency/price per KM have an option of CNG.

I doubt anyone buys a diesel "ONLY" for the low end torque.

However, even a 10 Rs differential in fuel price is enough for diesel lovers to be loyal.
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Old 8th July 2016, 14:35   #40
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Friends, yes this topic is slowly turning towards petrol vs diesel, which is better & so on.

Here is a useful link for all "calculations"
http://aravindavk.in/diesel-vs-petrol-car/

I had owned a petrol vehicle earlier, trust me, every time I refill and that sluggish 10kmpl in city drive was some how affecting me morally / emotionally and all the while drilling deep hole in my pocket.

Only department where petrol car fares reasonably good is refinement and silent cabin!

I also drive my Dad's FIAT-MJD and quite satisfied with its performance.

Better late than never, I now own TDCi and quite happy with it.

In my opinion all the calculations, initial investment on diesel etc, go for toss when I visit for refilling. There is a sense of relief in filling diesel<->Less on pocket, just, a momentary joy.

No petrol car would give that much DTE range for single refill, not to miss the addictive torque!!!

Happy motoring, petrol/diesel.
thanks!!
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Old 8th July 2016, 23:25   #41
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

I have driven used petrol cars before but my first new car is a diesel and I think given a chance my next car would again be a diesel unless the govt goes hell bent on ruining diesel's future. The difference between the initial outlay between a diesel and and petrol, if i may put it in way that pinches the least, is at most a month of two's salary for many people. I haven't regretted once buying a diesel even when the difference between petrol and diesel has reduced to a paltry Rs 10. The satisfaction of being able to do long journeys without thinking about the travelling costs is what keeps me happy not once being getting worried about driving mannerisms. Diesels are tough beasts. Other benefits are no frequent refilling, just as reliable and easy on the pocket to maintain.

Diesel cars have started claiming 25-28 KMPL ARAI to a litre and if driven sedately 22-24 is easily reachable in the real world. I mean if they manage to do a say 35 KMPL in the near future and the cost of diesel even touches 60-65 I wouldn't ask for more. Plus the emissions are only going to get better. Manufacturers are going to find a way.I think govt should leave some breathing space for diesel technology.

Last edited by AKTRACK : 8th July 2016 at 23:25. Reason: corrections
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Old 10th July 2016, 06:11   #42
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

When you are doing the maths between Diesel and Petrol -- we need to consider 2 more things --

1. If bought through own money then yearly interest earned by saved mony (that's in case of Petrol).

2. If it's through loan than yearly benefit by derived by not paying interest on additional loan amount (again in case of petrol).

Believe me in long run it becomes substantial.
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Old 10th July 2016, 13:24   #43
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

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Originally Posted by bhatta151 View Post
When you are doing the maths between Diesel and Petrol -- we need to consider 2 more things --

2. If it's through loan than yearly benefit by derived by not paying interest on additional loan amount (again in case of petrol).

Believe me in long run it becomes substantial.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I think that if it's through loan and you plan to keep the car for more than 5-6 years than all you need to calculate is whether the additional amount of EMI that you would pay for 5 years(in case you go for 5 year loan) is saved on monthly basis due to the higher fuel efficiency + Rs. 10 price difference(as of today) for diesel .

For eg. the diesel variant costs Rs. 2 lac more than the petrol , the additional EMI of Rs. 2 lac would be Rs. 4500/- per month approx. If you can save more than this amount on a monthly basis(due to diesel efficiency + Rs. 10/- per liter price difference), then i think one should still go for the diesel . Lets not forget , that if you keep the car for more than 5 years there would be no burden of EMI's(if its a 5 year loan) but you would still be saving the difference in fuel costs for as long as you keep the car .

Regarding the resale, yes this 10 year ban for diesel would impact the resale market but i guess there won't be a substantial difference specially if you sell your car after 6-7 years . However ,even if there is a slight difference in resale of say 5-10%, i think the extra torque and driving pleasure that a diesel car gives is worth that extra .

I think(I may be wrong) that even after this ridiculous 10 year ban , one should still go back to the same old calculation of how much kms you drive in a month and how many years you plan to keep your car and if your monthly drive is beyond 1800-2000 kms and you plan to keep your car for more than 5-6 years, then i still think diesel makes more sense .
In my case i am planning to keep the car for 6-7 years ,hence i am opting for a diesel . Any suggestions/advice is welcome ...
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Old 10th July 2016, 14:24   #44
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

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Originally Posted by ddndrive View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong but I think that if it's through loan and you plan to keep the car for more than 5-6 years than all you need to calculate is whether the additional amount of EMI that you would pay for 5 years(in case you go for 5 year loan) is saved on monthly basis due to the higher fuel efficiency + Rs. 10 price difference(as of today) for diesel .

For eg. the diesel variant costs Rs. 2 lac more than the petrol , the additional EMI of Rs. 2 lac would be Rs. 4500/- per month approx. If you can save more than this amount on a monthly basis(due to diesel efficiency + Rs. 10/- per liter price difference), then i think one should still go for the diesel . Lets not forget , that if you keep the car for more than 5 years there would be no burden of EMI's(if its a 5 year loan) but you would still be saving the difference in fuel costs for as long as you keep the car .

Regarding the resale, yes this 10 year ban for diesel would impact the resale market but i guess there won't be a substantial difference specially if you sell your car after 6-7 years . However ,even if there is a slight difference in resale of say 5-10%, i think the extra torque and driving pleasure that a diesel car gives is worth that extra .

I think(I may be wrong) that even after this ridiculous 10 year ban , one should still go back to the same old calculation of how much kms you drive in a month and how many years you plan to keep your car and if your monthly drive is beyond 1800-2000 kms and you plan to keep your car for more than 5-6 years, then i still think diesel makes more sense .
In my case i am planning to keep the car for 6-7 years ,hence i am opting for a diesel . Any suggestions/advice is welcome ...
You are correct -- Finally it is about what rate you are going to use it and for how long.

Odds stacked up like this --

In Favour of Diesel --

FE and cost of Diesel.

In Favour of Petrol --

Lower price, interest on saved amount / extra loan amount, lower servicing cost.

Do the math for your self. My prediction owning a Diesel car is going to be increasingly costlier in future due to stricter environmental regulations.
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Old 10th July 2016, 16:15   #45
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Default Re: Diesel car sales cut by half! Now only 26% market-share

Just to add a few points which were not correctly stated by some members.

1. In a few years Petrol and Diesel will sell on the basis of calorific value (energy content put simply). In that case Diesel will be a little more expensive or same price as Petrol.

2. Petrol cars will cost less as engine is lighter and so the chassis need not be strengthened and pollution control will cost less than on Diesel cars. With the Euro IV standard additional cost will be added to Diesel cars for pollution control.

3. Theoretically the efficiency of Diesel engines is approx 30% better than that of petrol engines. In practice it might be a little lower owing to the higher weight of the diesel engine.

4. Eventually some will make the choice based on cost and others will make it on driving ease and fun. It's a personal choice.

5. Traffic is unlikely to reduce so we will all be driving pretty much bumper to bumper. Will it make any difference if my torque is 25% higher? One needs to consider the driving conditions as well.

Last edited by Eddy : 10th July 2016 at 16:44. Reason: Spacing for better readability
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