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Old 12th July 2016, 19:38   #1
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Default Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

I just came across a news article which states that the Renault Kwid in the Brazilian market will weigh 20% more than the Indian one. This export version is made in India, for crying out loud!! It reportedly has structural upgrades for better safety in the monocoque as well as individual parts.

I am completely distressed by this news. Firstly Renault has been a pioneer in crash safety with some of the first ever Euro NCAP 5 star cars back in the day. Secondly, the Indian plant is obviously capable of producing safer cars than those being sold to us.

Are we completely stupid as a country to accept such blatant discrimination? That too based on safety? I am ashamed of our government, legal system and, especially, the auto manufacturers in India. Can anything be done by people like us on team-bhp? My heart goes out to the countless dead and injured in preventable circumstances.

Article link: http://indianautosblog.com/2016/07/r...heavier-237155
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Old 13th July 2016, 10:31   #2
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

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Old 13th July 2016, 10:42   #3
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Imagine how frustrating it would be for me. I was the first few peeps in Delhi to get delivery of my Kwid Rxt(O). Have sent multiple emails regarding different versions of the kwid that they sent for the crash tests but never received any reply with concrete answers. :( they sent three models produced in India for the crash tests. Version 1 (that I own ) crumpled while version 2 and 3 produced after Jan 2016 fared much better. It's really appalling that we are being used a Guinea pigs and there aren't any strict govt. Norms for this.
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Old 13th July 2016, 10:52   #4
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Angry Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Indeed sad. Just by making thee budgeted 4 wheel tin cans, they lure thousands of people to buy these unsafe cars. But the information that they have manufactured a better, safer car in India, (Solely for export purposes) breaks my heart.
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Old 13th July 2016, 10:56   #5
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Such news that some other country gets a safer, heavier car compared to what we get here out of that very same car model sparks one question in my mind- Does it mean that our life is less precious compared to them?

Its high time government needs to step in and set some strict regulations.
But please don't employ the officers who belong to the same set of mind of the NGT.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:08   #6
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Its a age old debate. If I am to look at the economy of the Brazilian offer, to cough up 6 lac equivalent in Indian rupees on a car like Kwid, makes little sense as there other offerings if I am to extend my budget a bit more.

For the price it is offered, I guess Renault wants us to just 'shut up' and not ask more. Looking at the numbers this car has done, I believe we have wholeheartedly obliged.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:13   #7
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmayogi View Post
It reportedly has structural upgrades for better safety in the monocoque as well as individual parts.
Want me to really piss you off? When the Kwid failed the Global NCAP crash test, they then tried to game the system by only selectively reinforcing the driver's side of the car, as that is the side tested by Global NCAP's crash test.

For me, this behaviour is what crosses the line from criminally negligent manslaughter (e.g. "customers don't want safety", "our cars adhere to non-existent Indian safety standards") to murder (I presume the discussion went like this "What is the ultimate minimum we need to do to clear the Global NCAP?"). IANAL, so please don't shout at me if I've used these terms wrongly, its just to illustrate the degree of difference.

This is why, when you compare the two images below showing damage to the crash test dummies, you'll notice there's absolutely no improvement for the passenger, while there was some improvement for the driver (i.e. the legs are better protected).

Quote:
Global NCAP tested the standard version of the Kwid without airbags. It scored zero stars in adult occupant protection and two stars in child occupant protection. The collapse of the structure in the passenger compartment and the lack of airbags explained the poor result.
Name:  KWID Global NCAP v1.jpg
Views: 11225
Size:  39.8 KB

Quote:
Following safety improvements Renault proposed that Global NCAP test an updated evolution of the Kwid in production from early April 2016. The car was tested with and without an airbag.

The new Kwid without an airbag scored zero stars in the adult occupant protection and two stars in child occupant protection. The structure did not collapse however it was rated as unstable and that it could not withstand further loadings. It was possible to see the structural reinforcements implemented in this version of the Kwid but when Global NCAP checked the left (passenger) side, there were no reinforcements. The structure was reinforced only on the driver side.
Name:  KWID Global NCAP v2.jpg
Views: 10670
Size:  40.5 KB

Source: http://www.globalncap.org/zero-stars...p-crash-tests/

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
For the price it is offered, I guess Renault wants us to just 'shut up' and not ask more. Looking at the numbers this car has done, I believe we have wholeheartedly obliged.
Nicely put! Sadly, it is also a case of lack of knowledge that has driven this - not enough people know to check about safety ratings and make a decision. For every one person (like us) who drops the Kwid after seeing the crash test results, there are 10 or more who don't know about this, and book the car for its good looks, small footprint and affordable cost.

While I would personally have preferred India joining up with the ASEAN NCAP programme (or another NCAP) instead of winging our own safety standards, I'm still happy because the decision to mandate safety standards and crash testing in India is what will hopefully bring such knowledge to the masses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
However, it makes total business sense to introduce 4 more variants of safer Kwid at a premium. Then let the customers choose what they want.
Very nice idea - and particularly doable for those manufacturers who use India to manufacture vehicles for export to developed markets. For instance, when Ford was exporting the EcoSport to Europe, if they had launched the identical variant here named the "EcoSport Euro Edition", then it will have been lapped up by people because either a) they want the added safety/features/etc. b) the ability to boast about the "foreign version" they got.

Last edited by arunphilip : 13th July 2016 at 11:27.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:20   #8
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

I don't have much issues with continuation of current version sold here (considering that it is competing against the likes of Alto)

However, it makes total business sense to introduce 4 more variants of safer Kwid at a premium. Call it the Samba variant if you like. Clearly mention in the brochures about the safety of this variant when compared to the desi variant.

Then let the customers choose what they want.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:32   #9
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Aren't we ourselves to blame for this? Despite knowing how strong/weak the Kwid is structurally, there are enough people lining up for it. Some of them from even here, so you can imagine the ignorance among those who aren't inclined towards automotive knowledge or don't know better.

What we can do is, make such news immensely popular so Renault at least realizes that the Indian market isn't that stupid.

Social media does work: I have been in showrooms and have overheard people asking the SA for clarification based on something they have heard or read somewhere. Eg. I was beside this gent at VW who was considering the Jetta AT and he goes "this DSG thing, is it reliable? I've read that it fails too often". He might not know squat about DSG but that apprehension led him to evaluate the Jetta based on the DSG's reliability.

Similarly, if we get more people to question SAs on things like NCAP ratings, reliability, kerb weight vs competitors, that might just reach the bosses who'd consider doing something about it.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:36   #10
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

This is utterly frustrating. A manufacturer keep selling a car very low on safely in our market and keep exporting the *somewhat better* version locally manufactured here itself. Why Renault?

It would be better if he govt. or our local courts take suo moto cognizance on the subject and pull up Auto Industry for such practices!
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:45   #11
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM1500 View Post
Indeed sad. Just by making thee budgeted 4 wheel tin cans, they lure thousands of people to buy these unsafe cars. But the information that they have manufactured a better, safer car in India, (Solely for export purposes) breaks my heart.
Well, in my opinion, neither the competition is any better. Be it the GO/GO+, Alto, Eon, Nano etc, all offer wafer thin tin cans with four wheels. The sheet metal is so thin that one may easily conclude it as better suited for anything but packing jams / biscuits/snacks. Of course they all take their customers for a ride. These manufacturers can at best lure the prospective buyers through crafty offers/ deals . Lets not forget about the attitude of a common man who makes purchases based on “Kitna deti hai” formula alone rather than any other aspect.

Manufacturers are here for business and get swayed for making products that are accepted by masses, so that they can earn profits. It is the duty of common public to come out of the shell and shift priority towards safety, durability and quality rather than mere mileage. Lets not forget that at any given time, the buyer holds the entire leverage of applying his wisdom and taking an informed decision, and is at complete discretion to even back off from making purchase of cars that he is not satisfied with. So merely blaming the manufacturers alone would not, in my opinion, solve the problem unless the common man wakes up and understands his responsibilities towards the society, his family and even towards his own safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace F355 View Post
This is utterly frustrating. A manufacturer keep selling a car very low on safely in our market and keep exporting the *somewhat better* version locally manufactured here itself. Why Renault?

It would be better if he govt. or our local courts take suo moto cognizance on the subject and pull up Auto Industry for such practices!
Why don't we look at it the other way round. Had Renault increased the weight of the Kwid in an attempt to sell a better car, it would have negatively affected the key parameter "FE". In that case I doubt seriously as whether Kwid would have been as much successful.

With the Duster almost drying out in sales, Renault was desparately need for another successful car which brings volumes (read bread and butter), else it could have been hard to even survive in India. Thus Kwid was designed to meet the market demands rather than making what a good car is supposed to be.

Last edited by King_pin09 : 13th July 2016 at 12:02.
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Old 13th July 2016, 11:53   #12
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

As long as the consumers does not prioritize safety in their shopping list, not much is going to change.
Installing additional airbags for the sake of regulations in a car which is not crash worthy will cause more damage than a well engineered car.
I was asked not to go for Titanium (O) as the SA felt it's a waste of money for additional 4 airbags. Same opinion was shared by my friends and colleagues as well.
Most of them still feel airbags and seatbelts are unnecessary for cars in India.
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Old 13th July 2016, 12:03   #13
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Dear Carmakers,
Please stop giving the BS excuse that your model sold in India complies with the 'local safety norms.'

Renault's commitment to improving the safety standard in the Kwid is absolute BS. Such a difference in weight is a serious concern. I dread to think how much the Indian model compromises on safety.

I would like to see the ARAI FE ratings of entry level cars when they are as safe as their international versions.

EDIT: Does the Brazilian Kwid get 4 bolts holding wheels instead of the three?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
ignore wonderful product like Tata Tiago
Firstly, Tiago is a segment above. It's bigger, more expensive and has a 1.2 liter engine.

Secondly, Tiago isn't crash tested yet (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I know the car is well put together, but that isn't the topic here.

Thirdly, Tata Tiago is doing well w.r.t sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
As long as the consumers does not prioritize safety in their shopping list, not much is going to change.
Sadly, consumer education is lacking in our country. All that matters is bling and features you can show-off. Sad state of consumers in general.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 13th July 2016 at 12:08.
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Old 13th July 2016, 12:41   #14
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

We need a **Consumers Consortium** that can buy all these budget car models right off the dealer and strip their sheet metal completely bare to see what structural supports are present underneath. This should be made available to the public and should completely unveil what manufacturers are doing to their cars and what is the reality behind the facade.

Such an initiative is not very expensive, though chorporate sponsors may back off initially, the funds needed to buy base versions of economy models of 5 or so brands should not be more than 20 lakh at the most. It is doable.
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Old 13th July 2016, 13:06   #15
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Default Re: Renault India builds a safer Kwid for Brazil - 130 kilos heavier!

Posted about this yesterday in the "Global NCAP Zero For All" thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post4013702 (More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all)

When was the last time a customer put his foot down on safety for his chosen car and threatened to walk into the nearest Ford outlet to pick up a car with 6 airbags by paying a lakh-2 lakhs more?

Put that aside - how many actually wear their seatbelts while driving, even within the city?

Airbags, seatbelts, ABS - these are still deemed as useless stuff for a car, unfortunately.

A huge, roomy cabin, dollops of chrome inside and outside, plethora of features and a giant boot - these sell a car. Nothing else matters.

Can't blame Renault for shortchanging the entire market with a compromised Kwid, because it is here to make profits. When other companies continue to sell much higher segment cars without airbags and questionable structural rigidity, why should a 3-lakh budget-segment car be singled out?

Last edited by RavenAvi : 13th July 2016 at 13:09.
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