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Old 13th September 2016, 00:04   #61
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

That is smart thinking by Mahindra Engineers. They sensed that bolero is losing sales and quickly acted on it.

Now 1 lakh is a lot of money in the rural market. We can be sure bolero sales will go up gradually to usual 7-8k/month in the future.

And finally, RIP Sumo Gold! Tata should learn from Mahindra. Having a 20 year old design with different new decals is not going to make it any modern.

Last edited by PrasannaDhana : 13th September 2016 at 00:06. Reason: added content
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Old 13th September 2016, 07:02   #62
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post

And finally, RIP Sumo Gold! Tata should learn from Mahindra. Having a 20 year old design with different new decals is not going to make it any modern.
I do not see any difference in Tata or Mahindra. What is the new concept that Mahindra have introduced that makes all the people gaga over this product and make it worthy of a comparison with its competitors?

Mahindra toned down the CC from 2.5 to 1.5. More power, less the mileage. So obviously lesser the power, more the mileage. Do you see that here with the new Bolero? With 2.5, they claim to get 15.96 km/l. With 1.5, they should have claimed a better FE, in the range of 19 to 20 km/l. What have they achieved? A meagre 0.6 km/l efficiency!!


Look at the space inside. The passenger and driver seats were already crammed before. They have not made any improvement there. Also see the middle passenger section. Only 5 footers will be able to sit in this vehicle. Forget anybody above that. Is there any facility for pulling the seats back for 6 footers? Nil! In this area, Tata scores. It is better not to build a new product or dress up an old horse and show people that it can still win a race.

With diesel and petrol prices arriving at the same band, does anybody think that there is an advantage of this 1 lakh discount? Rather this 1 lakh will be shaved off by lack of mileage, because it is my view that the new bolero will not give you anything more than 11 km/l. And power, you are sacrificing the power of 2.5. 1.5 will give the same mileage as 2.5 for lesser power. Where is the advantage!

It is time people open their eyes to see what Mahindra is doing. Mahindra should have focussed on increasing fuel efficiency of existing Bolero instead of cutting down the size of Bolero at the cost of safety. The bumpers reduce the shock of impact (miniscule) on the A pillar. Do you think trimming that down will improve safety especially when the steering wheel is too close to the driver's chest?

Disclaimer: I am a fan of Bolero model. The price and space is the only reason I am not a proud owner of one.
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Old 13th September 2016, 07:42   #63
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

I know this is an old car but any chance of an official review?

I'm really impressed! You're getting a tough as nails car with old school charm for hatchback money. It may not make sense as an only car but as a second car for the path less travelled by, it makes an excellent case for itself. That plus rural buyers who need the ruggedness.
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Old 13th September 2016, 09:58   #64
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by bhp4putuval View Post
I do not see any difference in Tata or Mahindra. What is the new concept that Mahindra have introduced that makes all the people gaga over this product and make it worthy of a comparison with its competitors?

Mahindra toned down the CC from 2.5 to 1.5. More power, less the mileage. So obviously lesser the power, more the mileage. Do you see that here with the new Bolero? With 2.5, they claim to get 15.96 km/l. With 1.5, they should have claimed a better FE, in the range of 19 to 20 km/l. What have they achieved? A meagre 0.6 km/l efficiency!!


Look at the space inside. The passenger and driver seats were already crammed before. They have not made any improvement there. Also see the middle passenger section. Only 5 footers will be able to sit in this vehicle. Forget anybody above that. Is there any facility for pulling the seats back for 6 footers? Nil! In this area, Tata scores. It is better not to build a new product or dress up an old horse and show people that it can still win a race.

With diesel and petrol prices arriving at the same band, does anybody think that there is an advantage of this 1 lakh discount? Rather this 1 lakh will be shaved off by lack of mileage, because it is my view that the new bolero will not give you anything more than 11 km/l. And power, you are sacrificing the power of 2.5. 1.5 will give the same mileage as 2.5 for lesser power. Where is the advantage!

It is time people open their eyes to see what Mahindra is doing. Mahindra should have focussed on increasing fuel efficiency of existing Bolero instead of cutting down the size of Bolero at the cost of safety. The bumpers reduce the shock of impact (miniscule) on the A pillar. Do you think trimming that down will improve safety especially when the steering wheel is too close to the driver's chest?

Disclaimer: I am a fan of Bolero model. The price and space is the only reason I am not a proud owner of one.


Is that the only reason? I have an Eeco too (5-str AC) and I can see that the Bolero certainly scores over it in terms of space. I won't argue about the safety aspects but I know that the Eeco is as flimsy as they come. The bumpers reducing the impact (of a frontal collision I take it) is a common assumption, unless they carry built-in impact protection (5 mph bumpers as they were known in the US at the time of introduction, years back!), which is uncommon.

So,all in all I'd say M&M are capitalizing on a proven design, respected for its ruggedness, longevity and general reliability.

Last edited by shashanka : 13th September 2016 at 10:00.
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Old 13th September 2016, 10:56   #65
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Old 13th September 2016, 10:58   #66
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

I don't know about cross country but in the areas I have visited, I have seen that the Bolero Plus (extended area after the rear wheels) is the model of choice in rural areas. They get more area to overload their vehicles. It's the same reason why the Force (Toofan?) models are very popular. I don't see the Power+ model giving any such advantage. So I am not very sure about it's success in the rural and semi-urban CAB market.

On the other hand, this becomes even more VFM for private use/official use. My dad's office has a fleet of SLXs. All of them are over 1L kms and are nearing replacement. While a few Zests were inducted last year, they might get a few more Boleros for the bad road trips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
That is smart thinking by Mahindra Engineers. They sensed that bolero is losing sales and quickly acted on it.

Now 1 lakh is a lot of money in the rural market. We can be sure bolero sales will go up gradually to usual 7-8k/month in the future.

And finally, RIP Sumo Gold! Tata should learn from Mahindra. Having a 20 year old design with different new decals is not going to make it any modern.
I have been to the hills (Arunachal Pradesh) and there the Sumo rules. The local drivers say that the torque is very important and they get it from the 3.0L Sumo engine. Hardly 5% vehicles are Bolero and Tavera in those areas. Now, with this 1.5L engine even those 5% might not be seen.

PS: Dad's office has a Sumo 3.0L (pre-Gold model) and he loves that vehicle. He says it feels like a moving drawing room and I agree with him. He chucked the top-end Bolero, got an after market AC fitted in the base model Sumo and used it for 2 years very happily. Then after much request from the Admin that the Sumo was below his rank and he should use the Bolero/Zest, he relented and is using the Bolero for long trips and Zest in-between.
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Old 13th September 2016, 12:14   #67
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
[/b]

Is that the only reason? I have an Eeco too (5-str AC) and I can see that the Bolero certainly scores over it in terms of space. I won't argue about the safety aspects but I know that the Eeco is as flimsy as they come. The bumpers reducing the impact (of a frontal collision I take it) is a common assumption, unless they carry built-in impact protection (5 mph bumpers as they were known in the US at the time of introduction, years back!), which is uncommon.

So,all in all I'd say M&M are capitalizing on a proven design, respected for its ruggedness, longevity and general reliability.
My father also has an Eeco. I drive it whenever I go to my native place. For the price, I do not see anything wrong with Eeco. There are lot of space for everybody to sit comfortably and the car is able to take the load with AC on. My father bought this vehicle for 3.3L in the year of its launch, and it is still performing as per Maruti standards. So for the price and space, Eeco is still a good vehicle.

Regarding the bumper safety, Eeco cannot be taken as an example of safety. In fact, there is no safety for a user driving an Eeco. I took this aspect in case of Bolero, because that is where Mahindra compromised. Trimming bumpers to bring it down to the sub-4-m category is not the right approach. They could have cut down the bonnet size instead.

Regarding space, somehow I do not agree with your views that Bolero scores over Eeco. Try fitting a family of 5 foot 7 inchers (preferably 7 members ) into a 7 seater Eeco and a Bolero. Bolero fails in terms of comfort and seat adjustment. What use is ruggedness if all our bones crib after a long journey!

To summarize, Bolero wins for longevity and reliability, but zero comforts and now with this new vehicle, less power and poor mileage.
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Old 13th September 2016, 13:21   #68
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by fx45 View Post
So now the bumpers are almost negligible, especially up front. Wonder how much impact the new ones would take.
So, buy this and then replace with a new regular Bolero bumper. Looks like it will be a straight fit.

I am more surprised by the engine putting out better hp than the 2.5L one. This should sell good numbers.
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Old 13th September 2016, 13:51   #69
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Price revealed : 1 Lakh cheaper than regular Bolero!!



http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...kh-402974.aspx
Fantastic. Now it will revitalise their sales charts all over again and probably will become the best selling UV again as well.

Its a great price. And for this smaller engine to develop a higher HP is a good thing too.

My old Bolero 2.5 Sportz used to give me 65BHP and used to suffer a lot while overtaking on the highways. But it was a good tough vehicle all the same.

I only wish these blokes would somehow shoe horn and engineer better safety kit in the Bolero while updating all the rest of the stuff.

Add 4WD and maybe an AT and flat, moveable and foldable split seats at the rear, chuck out those foolish side facing seats and hey presto, there you have it- a formula for unbeatable success!

Then it would truly be one of those evergreen invincible UV's out there and probably can go on and on for another 20 years of sales!

Time for them to switch of that silly Xylo and Quanto and rationalise their lineup a bit.

They should also most certainly rationalise their variant list and make it sharper.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 13th September 2016 at 13:54.
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Old 13th September 2016, 17:10   #70
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

Is this engine as reliable as the DI turbo was? It is a true work horse. Need to wait and watch. I wonder what would happen to the DI turbo now after the Mhawk has been planted to the new Bolero. Probably that would still be making rounds in the Pickups I guess. This is one engine I do not wish to see it die.
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Old 13th September 2016, 18:34   #71
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

dear Mahindra,

Can you at least put up a proper pic ?
Look at these lines. The Bolero looks just a photo-shopped image.

Image from on-line brochure:
Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!-boleropowerplus.jpg

Image from on-line product page: Looks worse here:
Name:  BoleroPowerPlus.jpg
Views: 4814
Size:  40.6 KB


note:
If you could reduce the height of the front bumper, the vehicle may look a little more better & less bulky

Last edited by condor : 13th September 2016 at 18:38.
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Old 13th September 2016, 18:41   #72
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by bhp4putuval View Post
........To summarize, Bolero wins for longevity and reliability, but zero comforts and now with this new vehicle, less power and poor mileage.
The Bolero target is the hinterland where its popularity as a point-to-point taxi/people-mover is still unbeatable. And in this segment comfort is not really the criteria. And as for power it is marginally more (70 bhp vs 65 bhp) than the earlier version and also with marginally better FE. But where it scores big-time of course is the cost - thanks to scraping just under the 4m length criteria!. And in a VFM conscious market like ours, that scores hugely.

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Originally Posted by yamaniac View Post
Is this engine as reliable as the DI turbo was? It is a true work horse. Need to wait and watch. I wonder what would happen to the DI turbo now after the Mhawk has been planted to the new Bolero. Probably that would still be making rounds in the Pickups I guess. This is one engine I do not wish to see it die.
True, the DI turbo was a bullet-proof work-horse with a huge following. But time moves on & CR technology is here to stay, with its clean burn characteristics and lower NVH levels. And the same basic engine in the Quanto, TUV & now the Nuvosport (in different states of tune/mapping) has not recieved too much brick-bats regarding its reliability. Its still early days though - and those solenoid /piezo gizmos in the injection mechanism still tends to make one uncomfortable!
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Old 13th September 2016, 19:20   #73
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

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Originally Posted by yamaniac View Post
Is this engine as reliable as the DI turbo was? It is a true work horse. Need to wait and watch. I wonder what would happen to the DI turbo now after the Mhawk has been planted to the new Bolero. Probably that would still be making rounds in the Pickups I guess. This is one engine I do not wish to see it die.
My Bolero Sportz used to have the XD3PU Peugeot Derived engine which was far more refined that the DI engine. The DI is good for low end torque and hauling but had a most dreadful tractor like clatter.
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Old 13th September 2016, 19:32   #74
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

All they need to do is put in some better quality plastics, get rid of the leafs in the back, make ergonomics a bit more useful, and make available 20 to 30 more horses and u will have a winner in its segment atleast for next 10 years. Being an old bolero zlx owner who have driven over a lakh km with it, i can surely say that this is one such vehicle which you can really trust upon. Miles to go mahindra, all you need is a bit of tweak here and there and you will have a clear winner. Else brands from abroad (eg Jeep ) will learn the tricks of offering economical SUVs and take the game away from you in no time..

Last edited by highwaypatrol : 13th September 2016 at 19:34.
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Old 13th September 2016, 20:52   #75
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Default Re: Mahindra's sub-4 meter Bolero. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 6.59 lakh!

The launch is the age old and proven sometimes, failure otherwise, the ingenious Mahindra way to attract attention. The Xylo sales were flagging and the Quanto came with the central excise benefits.The four cylinder became three. It flopped miserably.

The Verito and Vibe have got the Ola ventilator to stay put and get going, with almost no demand from private buyers.

The recently launched NuvoSport sales too are going nowhere. Thats a lost territory.

The Bolero was among the top 5 selling cars not long ago. Then it found a place in the top 10 and later top 20 at # 18 last month (August 2016). It was out of the top 20 on some occassions including the July 2016 sales charts.

The once bread and butter earning Bolero slipping to the 20 plus position, must have raised eyebrows at the M and M headquarters. It is their way to make it a three cylinder engine, powered with the M Hawk D 70 (what is the significance of these names?). This one with the new engine cannot be the old Bolero, that is a rugged people's and goods carrier. The slight price reduction does not mean much and the buyer in this segment looks for a workhorse where he wants lugging ability and enough power to move in the urban, semi-urban and rural roads. The torque figures of the three cylinder engine may prove its worth.

The Bolero otherwise needs a lot in its fit and finish department. The dashboard design and the plastic quality are dated and deplorable. Airbags, ABS are all Utopian ! The upholstery is nothing to write home about. And sprucing up here would have added to the costs which is best avoidable by M and M, since it had gone out of the Top 20 list.

So again the best way out was to MHawk D 70 it and relaunch !
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