Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th September 2017, 09:29   #211
BHPian
 
meetgds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 71
Thanked: 26 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

I think that this is again a perfect example of a good idea with poor implementation. If the Diesel cars really cause much more pollution than their petrol counterparts, then a restriction on them only feels fair. However, simply banning all 10 year old diesel cars without giving a proper prep time for the public is not fair. In my opinion, this ban should be made applicable for all cars being manufactured from this year, and those who have purchased diesel cars in the past should not have to bear the price of the same. Also, to restrict continuation of old diesel cars, the purchase of old cars which are beyond, say 7 years old should be made illegal (by not allowing Registration of such old cars). But someone who probably owns a diesel car which is say 8 years old, should be allowed to keep it for more than 2 years.
To summarize, I'm thinking of something like this:
  • For cars manufactured after the ban is implemented, allow a maximum of 10 years life
  • For cars which were bought before the ban, let them be valid till a maximum of, say 15 years, but don't allow resale once the car is more than 10 years old.
meetgds is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 09:35   #212
BHPian
 
car_crazy1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DL/UP16/PB10
Posts: 520
Thanked: 171 Times
Default

Time to get rid of my 2010 Toyota Fortuner asap.

Its maintained and I really don't want to see it go, but given the current scene, I believe I should let it go.
car_crazy1400 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 09:44   #213
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,456
Thanked: 3,564 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_crazy1400 View Post
Time to get rid of my 2010 Toyota Fortuner asap.

Its maintained and I really don't want to see it go, but given the current scene, I believe I should let it go.
The resale would anyways be bad. Just get a NOC in the last year and sell out of state. Alternatively if u can get it registered in your name in a different state then do that. They are not going to be stopping Fortuners as the cops themselves are not well versed with models. Cars they stop are either cabs or models which have been long discontinued like the Accent/Lancer/Esteem etc.
drmohitg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 09:48   #214
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,107
Thanked: 3,687 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

With the phase out of fossil fuel to start 'real soon' I will take a somewhat lax stand about the one decade rule. Can any politico put his hand on his heart and swear that the amount of fuel adulteration is definitely under 5%. If not then ...
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 09:56   #215
BHPian
 
car_crazy1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DL/UP16/PB10
Posts: 520
Thanked: 171 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The resale would anyways be bad. Just get a NOC in the last year and sell out of state. Alternatively if u can get it registered in your name in a different state then do that. They are not going to be stopping Fortuners as the cops themselves are not well versed with models. Cars they stop are either cabs or models which have been long discontinued like the Accent/Lancer/Esteem etc.


I am going to try to sell it in Punjab.

If not, I will get NOC in the last year as suggested by you and get it transferred to my company in Punjab only.

However, I have done about 1.16 Lac kms on it.
So, lets see what kinda resale I get.
car_crazy1400 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 10:29   #216
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,107
Thanked: 3,687 Times
Default Re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Any such rule with a hamfisted implementation is typical of our system. Remember their lordships are mostly from a liberal arts background, activists are, well activists, and everybody id eyeing the pie. We all know what happens in a PUC test!!
sgiitk is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 10:33   #217
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 512
Thanked: 517 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
....

1. It is against the current law or act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meetgds View Post
.. perfect example of a good idea with poor implementation..... this ban should be made applicable for all cars being manufactured from this year, and those who have purchased diesel cars in the past should not have to bear the price of the same.
]
+1

The fact that Diesel particulate emissions are much more polluting and harmful is now gaining increasing acceptance worldwide.

But suddenly introducing a ban on all diesel vehicles > 10 year old is a knee jerk reaction rather than a well thought of rule.

Current Diesel vehicles have been lawfully purchased with a 15 year lifetime registration, the same should be honoured rather than leaving the owners high and dry. At the very least, the existing Diesel personal transport vehicles should be allowed to ply till their life time registration period is over.


The right approach to dealing with this problem would be:

1) The focus should be on the road worthiness (wrt., emission) of any vehicle on the road, not just diesel vehicles.

All vehicles flouting emission norms should be immediately confiscated and registration cancelled. If there is a will, it will be possible to strictly enforce this just like the way older vehicles are being kept off the road.
As long as any vehicle (irrespective of age) can clear the current emission norms, it should be allowed to run irrespective of its age.

2) Proper advance notice should be issued to manufacturers that Diesel passenger vehicles will not be allowed to be manufactured (except for exports) after X (eg: 5 years) from now.
Manufacturers would have invested a lot of capital and effort in setting up the infrastructure. They should not be left high and dry as well and should be given time and proper advance notification to switch to non-diesel vehicle production (or better non fossil fuel propelled vehicles).

3) No new diesel personal transport vehicles should be manufactured after the stipulated X years from now. It may be inevitable to have diesel engines for high torque applications like Goods vehicles and Buses though (until high torque electric vehicles become the norm).

Last edited by for_cars1 : 15th September 2017 at 10:39.
for_cars1 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 10:37   #218
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 146
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

Is diesel car's pollution really 10 times that of a petrol car - I think they have only compared NOx or unburnt fuel. So its very very selective reading of emissions.

For a moment, lets believe what they are saying is right. So they want us to move to petrol vehicles then why is it that petrol is so much more expensive than diesel. Is there any incentive for people to move to petrol. The Government only works on disincentives which is very sad and disappointing.

To top it, all Govt bodies think differently. Transport minister and finance minister want EVs but no hybrids, power minister cant supply power, commerce & industries minister wants auto cos, NGT wants petrol vehicles, finance minister taxes the heck of out of petrol - we consumers are getting ripped, pulled in many directions.

Now courts are also wanting to take their share of limelight.

I do not own diesel car but this decision is akin to demonetization - with zero thought for citizens, their money or convenience.

~m
serious_maniac is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 10:44   #219
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bangalore/US
Posts: 120
Thanked: 55 Times
Default

I guess the next step is govt approaching supreme court. The NGT seems to have zero understanding of practical issues, and instead punishing hard-working folks. "Let them eat cake if they can't have bread" seems to be their motto!

Its a poorly thought out decision even if the science and evidence behind it is strong. Who is going to pay compensation to lakhs of people affected? What about the poor and self-employed who depend on their vehicles for their livelihood ? Or even people who have taken loans and bought cars, and suddenly its value is zero or goes down drastically ?

Such laws should be applied prospectively, not restrospectively. First ban the new diesel vehicles, then first consider banning vehicles older than 15-20 years, and stop renewing registration after 15 years. Even there, give 1-2 years grace so that its not rude shock to people. Of course, goes without saying that for all these the vehicles need to be in good shape and emission should be within limits.

Last edited by moralfibre : 15th September 2017 at 11:25. Reason: Back to back posts.
sanchari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 10:55   #220
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,456
Thanked: 3,564 Times
Default Re: views about 10 year old diesel vehicles banned in Delhi ncr region

Quote:
Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
Is diesel car's pollution really 10 times that of a petrol car - I think they have only compared NOx or unburnt fuel. So its very very selective reading of emissions.
Statistics are a very dangerous tool. If you know your trade, you can use the same statistics to project success and same statistic to project failure. So lets not put much faith in the one doled out by the NGT. After all we know that their whims and fancies only apply to the common citizen who cannot defend himself. They were put in their place by the AOL organisation during their event in Delhi last year.
drmohitg is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 12:30   #221
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RJ-02,DL,MH-12
Posts: 884
Thanked: 1,031 Times
Default Re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Well, lets hope that sense prevails if not now may be a little later and NGT looks at overall life cycle emissions of discarding a vehicle when the useful life is left and compare it with replacement emissions.

Every investment in developed countries goes for residual life study before the decision to scrap / dismantle is made. I am not too sure but usage of commercial vehicles is many fold compared to personal vehicles and thus if the rule has to apply just for the sake of pollution (absolute terms as the no. of km run by commercial vehicles with old technology will be much more), it should first be enforced on commercial vehicles provided there is a solid basis for it (may be if the vehicle fitness is carried out properly, it should reveal).

Nonetheless, we Indian will even get adjusted to this new regime !

Last edited by i74js : 15th September 2017 at 12:32.
i74js is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2017, 18:23   #222
BHPian
 
spindoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madras
Posts: 277
Thanked: 123 Times
Default Re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Maybe , but if the powers-that-be are serious about addressing diesel pollution, shouldn't the sub-4m excise duty law allow for larger petrol engines instead of diesels, as it currently does?

Many buyers in that segment are willing to pay a premium for diesel cars not only because they are more fuel-efficient but also because they offer considerably better performance than the petrols. More powerful petrol engines could help reduce the no. of diesels sold.

Last edited by spindoc : 15th September 2017 at 18:26.
spindoc is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2017, 00:02   #223
BHPian
 
Mr.Beat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 334
Thanked: 121 Times
Default

I was discussing this with one of my clients and it struck me how irresponsible is the order. Logically when you take any such decision, shouldn't it be for any event from now onwards ? I mean , they could have said that all the diesel vehicles purchased after today will have a life expectancy of 10 years after which they will be banned to run on the roads no matter how fit they are. How can they have this policy enforced on someone who's got a car of 1,3,5 or even 9 year old but of diesel make? It can not be retrospective, right ?
Mr.Beat is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban darklord The Indian Car Scene 284 25th March 2017 21:41
NGT bans vehicles older than 15 years luvtandon The Indian Car Scene 1 27th November 2014 12:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:17.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks