Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th July 2016, 10:20   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 4,115
Thanked: 3,489 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old


An egotistical sticking-to-stand by an (insert inappropriate impolite word) who should have stayed in retirement.
1. Why 10 years. Why has he not been informed of something called a PUC?
2. Lets look at the actual work for the NGT post passing order. er.....none? "You, scrap the cars", "You, ban sales", "You, get me water". They have the authority to pass a law, but they are not tasked with formulating a strategy, or chart out how they should be given water.

Is Freedom man going to tell us where this cars will be going? Is NGT going have cars seized and parked on Mr. Freedom man's head?
Are you going to compensate people for stealing their cars, because the government had assured us by law that the car is good for 15 years? Is he not contravening the law?

What a bunch of morons. Give a monkey a machine gun.........

With all the supposed support by the auto lobby, in bits, I have a feeling they have now latched onto it. Why would they not.

Last edited by mayankk : 19th July 2016 at 10:22.
mayankk is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 10:52   #47
BHPian
 
arjab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MAA/CCU
Posts: 646
Thanked: 1,194 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Seems the city of London is also thinking of severely restricting diesel powered vehicles. It appears that the whole wide world thinks that the devil is in the diesel, more so after the VW scandal.

Link:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...-gains-support
arjab is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 11:00   #48
BHPian
 
King_pin09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 273
Thanked: 318 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Now I would not be surprised if the number of car accidents involving diesel engine cars increases dramatically. In place of maintaining a diesel car beautifully for 10 years and then scrapping it for peanuts, people will find the option of using it for five years with rash driving as a better alternative. Besides even if one ends up in an accident, one has the option of claiming insurance and buying another car.


Jokes apart, I do not see any basis on which the recommendation has been made. Merely banning vehicles based on age and irrespective of its health conditions is contradictory to the Motor vehicles act which allow for the first time registration period of 15 years. The Gov't has to clarify as which law would prevail over the other and what would be further recourse so that no harm is caused to vehicle owners who have abided by the existing law i.e paying LTT for 15 years.
King_pin09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 11:20   #49
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 161
Thanked: 109 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

It seems the premise of this ruling by NGT is that vehicles in general, and old diesel vehicles in specific are the major contributors to pollution in cities.

I understand that some of the old vehicles may be immaculately maintained, and hence less polluting than others. However, those would be very few. So in such cases, those would have to be considered collateral damage in the quest for larger good.

However, what I fear is, when most owners, who have to scrap their current old cars, would go for new ones, it would push the demand up for more manufacturing. Would this not lead to more pollution? I mean, is the process of manufacturing the cars itself not very polluting? If so, in effect, are they not pushing the pollution out from one place to another and creating a bigger problem?
Bh.P is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 11:46   #50
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 166
Thanked: 170 Times
Default

Why don't they first ban the sales of diesel vehicles for private ownership. That step alone is more than enough to make a huge difference in the long run. It takes care of the nightmare of having to regulate diesel subsidies.
Next step should be to reduce taxes on Petrol so that it becomes easier for the common man to transition to a petrol vehicle.
Lately petrol vehicles have also become better at FE and if traffic jams can be taken out of the picture by proper road planning and religiously following lane driving, then I am sure petrol cars won't feel too expensive to run either.
rdst_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:15   #51
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bangalore/US
Posts: 120
Thanked: 56 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

What kind of tuglaq durbar is this NGT? Why should there be a blanket ban on all 10 year old vehicles as long as they are adhering to the emission norms? Do an emission drive and only de-register if vehicles don't meet the norms. This is stupid. If a vehicle is meeting emission norms, whats the reason to ban them?

People would have invested lakhs of rupees on their vehicles and many people's livelihood depends on their vehicles. Without understanding the impact, banning something immediately shows the lack of application of the mind.
sanchari is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:18   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
thoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kerala
Posts: 1,750
Thanked: 1,073 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

I do not see the exact reason in banning all diesels above 10 years henceforth. It can be a one time ban, but aren't the current set of engines better?

Quote:
Older diesel vehicles were significantly more polluting than petrols, and an immediate health risk. But because some countries, mainly in Europe, had been moving to diesel following concerns over global warming, a lot of R&D investment was made in diesel engines. Modern diesels are a huge improvement over engines produced 15-20 years ago.

.... Bharat Stage-I (BS-I) rated diesel engine produced about 15 years ago in India would probably be 50 times more polluting than the BS-IV engines of today. Tech upgrades in petrol engines have been much less and slower than the advances made in diesel engine technology.
thoma is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:28   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 394
Thanked: 321 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Is this the last nail in the coffin to diesel cars for non-commercial usage?
The reduction in the disparity of petrol and diesel costs also would dampen the purchase of diesel vehicles. The resale value also would tumble in proportion.

I wonder why this had to happen, right when I was contemplating to buy and enjoy a turbo diesel.
jetsetgo08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:30   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,311
Thanked: 1,042 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Even Government uses vehicles which have a life of more than 10 years. Shouldn't there a better planning and co-ordination among the legal agencies and the stakeholders to avoid dishing out jokes in the name of law?

Currently, the recent laws make India feel like anarchy. We just ban anything that seems tricky. Then someone comes, files a case and obtains a stay order.
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:32   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
sourabhzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: GURGAON
Posts: 1,541
Thanked: 1,277 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Even Government uses vehicles which have a life of more than 10 years. Shouldn't there a better planning and co-ordination among the legal agencies and the stakeholders to avoid dishing out jokes in the name of law?
That gives them more reasons to support the ban. Their old cars will now be replaced with the new ones!
sourabhzen is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:34   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,131
Thanked: 1,001 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

The ruling is not only stupid, but also shows how little the authority researched about the causes of pollution and evaluated the repercussions of a blanket ban. The ban does very little to reduce the pollution in NCR.

As concluded by various studies on pollution in NCR, the major polluting sources are Industries followed by Gen Sets followed by Large Commercial Vehicles, followed by diesel taxis. Personal vehicles may be large in numbers, but when you consider the average daily use and in general better maintenance, they pollute much less than commercial vehicles, which in general run 5-10 times more than personal vehicles, and their contribution to pollution is thus proportionately larger.

. The contribution of all type of vehicles to pollution is not even 25% of the total pollution load.
. The contribution of personal vehicles as a percentage of vehicular pollution is not even 10%
. The contribution of diesels personal vehicles is less than half of all personal vehicles

So on the whole the effect of 10+ year old personal vehicles on pollution is insignificant. Also all the parameters taken while calculating pollution are much lower in modern 2000cc+ engines as compared to the smaller diesels.

What should have been done is to have a single pollution criteria as in the US. Vehicle using any type of fuel has to conform to a single set of pollution norms. Further as tighter norms are legislated, vehicles not conforming to say the last norm are automatically taken out of circulation.

Even after a set of rigid norms are introduced, there are always relaxation for certain class of vehicles, but never for commercial vehicles or vehicles used regularly.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:37   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,311
Thanked: 1,042 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
That gives them more reasons to support the ban. Their old cars will now be replaced with the new ones!
OT:
Replacing Govt. vehicles is not an easy task. And getting approval for a new vehicle purchase is also time taking. And if the NGT order is implemented, these babus might be left with no vehicle at all until the replacement is sanctioned and purchased. Or they might go in for rented vehicle but even that needs sanction.

How do I know this? My father is a state government official and has a Bolero Slx as his official vehicle. It which should be +/-10 years old as I have been seeing them with us since 2007. In fact his office has a fleet of 7-8 Boleros which were purchased around 2006-7 and used by senior bureaucrats only. They are maintained very well and have run between 80-150k kms each.

Last edited by ashis89 : 19th July 2016 at 12:45.
ashis89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:37   #58
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RJ-02,DL,MH-12
Posts: 920
Thanked: 1,080 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

It is implementable?
RTO as well Police are not under the jurisdiction of NGT. A tribunal has no authority of a court, they can only recommend and advise. Directive is not part of their mandate unless in a case particular they have been advised by the government to issue a directive.

I have serious doubts on this getting implemented. The ban on 2000+ CC diesel cars was implemented through a court order and that too it is not a law unless supported by a notification by the government. The ban on diesel registration will have a life and it has to roll back unless government comes up with a law against diesel.

The NGT is not bothered by the life cycle emissions. Production of a new car has lots of emissions right from the extraction of iron from the ore and so on. A simple decision to scrap will not hold. Also one has to look at the suitability of blanket bans on 10+ year vehicles - The policy should adequately cover the roadworthiness of a particular emission norm say:
A non Euro car can operate until Dec XXXX
A Euro II car can operate until XXXX and so on, and this should be linked to the induction of new Bharat or Euro norms in the country. The RTO can thus use this time period for validity of new registration and charge accordingly.

Also is NGT not aware that the government is working on vehicle scraping norms? Can't they issue directive to government to come out with a policy instead of issuing such directives for car users?

Also, NGT talks about diesel cars but no one seem to be interested in 2 wheelers which are still operating on carburetors and no MPFI is on the horizon, the kind of pollutants contributed by them has been overlooked.

Is there something cooking somewhere?

Last edited by i74js : 19th July 2016 at 12:53.
i74js is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:53   #59
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 111
Thanked: 41 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

The reason RTOs have defined the life of a vehicle as 15 years ( with life time tax) is assuming that "most" vehicles will be unusable and would need a fitness certificate to run after that.

NCR being a basket case in terms of pollution, this 15 years is being moved back 5 years. I agree, 5 years of tax needs to be reimbursed.

The ruling is not hugely impractical in my opinion. Certainly there are a lot of people, especially in this forum who maintain their vehicles very well. But you still have to go to an RTO and get a fitness certificate to run after 15 years. A rule is created considering the majority of the users. Cars olders than 10 years certainly do not conform to BS4 standards.

I think if the Delhi RTO reimburses 5 years of tax, it should be alright.

Apart from taxi owners, what is the percentage of people who use their cars for more than 10 years. Certainly there would be an odd Scorpio or swift, but generally majority of the people especially in cities move over to newer cars faster.
ashokrajagopal is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2016, 12:59   #60
BHPian
 
SoumenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: B'lore
Posts: 277
Thanked: 345 Times
Default re: July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
How about they start returning the 5 years of road tax first which is paid extra while collecting road tax of 15 years.
Am sure no RTO official(while impounding the vehicles) will answer this question. Infact max we can expect is a finger pointed towards NGT asking us to seek an answer from them. But vehicles will anyways be impounded as per

Am expecting another scenario like we witnessed when Karnataka RTO went amok harassing out-of-state vehicle owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Most illogical and uneducated government ever in Indian history.
What has government got to do with this? I dont think NGT comes under government. Rather its an independent body. Correct me if I am wrong? If that was the case, why would the government appeal NGT not to go for a blanket ban

Refer this link

Last edited by SoumenD : 19th July 2016 at 13:01.
SoumenD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban darklord The Indian Car Scene 284 25th March 2017 21:41
NGT bans vehicles older than 15 years luvtandon The Indian Car Scene 1 27th November 2014 12:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:10.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks