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Old 13th August 2016, 15:51   #31
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

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Originally Posted by sathya_g_m View Post
Have you ever seen a breakup of any special tax/cess collected and how and where it is spent. All this exercise has done is to increase more tax revenue for the government(aka politicians) to fill its coffers.re isn't it?!

It is not just NCR in many cities people havent realized that they cannot sight stars that easily on clear nights anymore.
Nor can you see a clewre sky in the UK which is environmentally far cleaner.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But what about the news that the government has called this judgement unconstitutional citing that the courts have no authority to introduce a new tax. Its a dangerous precedent being set.
Yes, but it may lake legislation to undo this,

Incidentally, the SCI wants the RTO to open a separate bank account in a PSU bank (why PSU?, to pay for fore frauds!) for the purpose. They know they are on a sticky wicket!!
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Old 13th August 2016, 16:11   #32
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But what about the news that the government has called this judgement unconstitutional citing that the courts have no authority to introduce a new tax. Its a dangerous precedent being set.
The reason being that the courts are now using law to take policy decision which is the government's territory. And even after government has set 2020 for Euro VI standards to be followed the courts have gone forward and done this. The courts have also kept the cess rate fixed at 1% only for now and can hike them in the future. The tax rate too is really a policy decisions thereby intruding the governments machinery.

The problem with intrusion is that these decisions are not to be taken in haste and have to be discussed with all the stakeholders and implemented in phases within a set timeline. As the shift in policy decision impacts lot if primary and ancillary industries as well as the customers. Further any sudden shifts in policy always slows down the investment cycle as the faith in policy makers i.e in this case the government is lost and is deemed to be an unstable regime. The net effect is whatever decisions the court takes in terms of policies the blame falls on the government as they lose investments, revenue and jobs in the economy takes a beating. Hence in policy making the government decisions should always be a step ahead, thereby giving no space for judiciary for the same.

Last edited by johannskaria : 13th August 2016 at 16:14.
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Old 13th August 2016, 19:18   #33
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But what about the news that the government has called this judgement unconstitutional citing that the courts have no authority to introduce a new tax. Its a dangerous precedent being set.
It doesn't matter. It is a win win situation for the government. They love taxes and this one will adds to state coffers with no efforts from their side. No one can point fingers at the government for it. Anyways, this 1% cess is not going to pinch majority of the population and manufacturer will definitely pass on the burden to the customer.

I presume that this cess will keep increasing with time.
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Old 13th August 2016, 20:38   #34
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

Any which way, there is a way forward is what I would say; when the ban was imposed this very same same community discussed and qualified it as "knee jerk reaction" and almost similar statements have been made now.

If judiciary has established a middle path to ensure that business continues, there is nothing wrong in it. It is for the industry to prove that diesel is equally good or bad as petrol and the government has the responsibility of make use of this additional cess in a way which reduces impact of pollution on local wellbeing.

A large population would be happy if there is some decision on old vehicles too, so that speculations on impacts of NGT's dictate can be put to rest.

Societies and economies can grow in a stable environment whether it is government or its policies.

Kudos to the Supreme Court !

Last edited by i74js : 13th August 2016 at 20:40.
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Old 13th August 2016, 20:54   #35
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I presume that this cess will keep increasing with time.
And more lower-capacity diesels (less than 2,000cc) will be added to this cess (or dare I say, levy) in the near future, as the SC has indicated. (link)

Even if it is extended till the 1.4L oil burners, customers will think 1% is too minuscule an amount to fidget about and shall happily pay up, while the government coffers will have some extra thousands added to them on a daily basis.

Win-win for all.
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Old 13th August 2016, 22:30   #36
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

The courts are clearly looking out of depth about issues of technology and to a great extent about what is pollution and why is this pollution there.

Logic seems like a license at certain fee gives you free hand. Can this same logic be extended to polluting factories. Pay 1% cess and get green certificate.

I am not saying that bigger engines are more polluting, in fact it could be other way round for example three wheeler is definitely more polluting than a 2ltr diesel engine with all the latest technology to control emissions.
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Old 13th August 2016, 23:10   #37
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

Actually we should not be jumping to conclusions about why the court did away with the ban. I don't think it was like the normal traffic cop stopping you and you pay him and he's ok with it and says go.

The fact remains that its not necessary that bigger diesels pollute more than smaller ones all the times. In fact it is the opposite on some cases. Many people knew this all the time. But the knee jerk action of the gov. coupled with the real pollution crisis at the time prevented anyone from having an opposite say.

Maybe the auto makers made the court see sense at last by providing whatever evidences they had and then the present outcome. Then the face-saving 1℅ cess followed.
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Old 14th August 2016, 01:22   #38
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

Quote:
But what about the news that the government has called this judgement unconstitutional citing that the courts have no authority to introduce a new tax. Its a dangerous precedent being set
Looks, this is correct. some more details on this.

CPCB officials said the government itself had filed an application against Friday’s order. The new levy has been named environment protection charge after the government argued imposition of taxes was the prerogative of Parliament. Solicitor-General Ranjit Kumar on Friday moved an application against the order, which the court is likely to consider at the next hearing.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...1301012_1.html
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Old 14th August 2016, 01:29   #39
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

I am not surprised by this turnaround. In fact, this WAS expected.

Reasons ?

Firstly there is no way any govt or panel can ban diesel vehicles in this arbitrary fashion. There are too many loop holes.

No way they can swing the manufacturers, political bosses, even the administration. So it was clear that this was all along about how to milk the maximum out of this situation

Voila - pass it on to the end customer - levy a tax and to the hell with environment - as if the govt/establishment cares two hoots!

And the end consumer - the folks who buy in these super cars, does anybody think that 1% extra tax will make them blink ? they will happily shell out multiple times that if they get an option to run these vehicles.

all knee jerk reactions and in the process, the coffers of the govt.is getting nicely filled - some good bonus!

Many parallels are there - one latest - you can see in Bangalore. Couple of years back, there was serious efforts to implement a scheme called "akrama-sakrama", ie, to regularize any irregularities in building construction by paying a one time fine/charge. Mind you, this was completely govt.sponsored! But for multiple reasons, this was held up

Fast forward to current times, couple of rains, few flood situations, and now what does one see - wholesale demolition of buildings which has come upon on erstwhile lake beds and drains, buildings which was FULLY approved even with all approvals/documentation from the concerned authorities.

Is this warranted, yeah maybe. But who are the real guilty ones ? the administration, the builders and the middle men. Who are left ruined ? the common man, after all who cares what happens to him!

The same with the environment - yeah, everybody will like to talk about environs, pollution, et. all. But pure lip-service. God help us!
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Old 14th August 2016, 02:43   #40
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

I do not understand this at all. What authority does the Supreme Court have to levy taxes? There is already a precedence of the Supreme Court deciding to ban sun films in India. And now, they do this! What’s next? I thought courts were to provide justice and uphold laws. Since when can courts create laws?
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Old 14th August 2016, 09:49   #41
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

This should be our new National Anthem :

Money, money, money... money
Some people got to have it
Some people really need it
Listen to me y'all, do things
Do things, do bad things with it
You wanna do things, do things
Do things, good things with it
Talk about cash money, money
Talk about cash money
Dollar bills, yall

For the love of money
People will steal from their mother
For the love of money
People will rob their own brother
For the love of money
People can't even walk the street
Because they never know
Who in the world they're gonna beat
For that lean, mean, mean green
Almighty dollar, money

I know money is the root of all evil
Do funny things to some people
Give me a nickel, brother can you spare a dime
Money can drive some people out of their minds

Credit to the original song : For the Love of Money by O'Jays.

Happy ""Independence"" Day

Last edited by dark.knight : 14th August 2016 at 09:52.
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Old 14th August 2016, 11:10   #42
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

So does the 10 year + cars being deregistered rule still stand ?
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Old 14th August 2016, 16:04   #43
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

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So does the 10 year + cars being deregistered rule still stand ?
I think the NGT has been told that the law does not permit deregistration before the end of the registration period. But then our courts increasligly seem to be emulating King Canute who ordered the waves to go back!
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Old 14th August 2016, 22:31   #44
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Default re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

So, we can expect one of the highlights of August 2016 monthly sales report to be - Innova Crysta crossing 10k level.

PS: I feel sorry for all who wanted diesel but were forced to pick a petrol SUV/MUV...especially for those whose vehicles got delivered on the day of the judgement.

Last edited by GTO : 15th August 2016 at 13:36. Reason: Typo
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Old 15th August 2016, 13:44   #45
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Default Re: Delhi's 2 litre diesel ban lifted; 1% green cess imposed

What a harebrained ban that was - glad that even the courts now agree.

What exactly did the ban achieve? All that time & effort wasted for what?

Have big engine'd diesels been blocked? Nope.

Were the pollution levels reduced? Nope. 2+ liter diesels anyway form a minuscule part of vehicular traffic to make any difference. Now they're back.

Is the customer discouraged? Nope. Big cars have already been the most taxed (excise duty slabs), and every 20+ lakh car out there is overpriced. 1% cess isn't going to make a difference to anyone.

Who's to say that this 1% collection is even going to be used in a manner that benefits society / pollution levels?

And while the big news of the month has been GST & simplification of taxes, here comes an order that adds yet another tax .

Instead, what the country should work toward is enforcing stringent pollution & safety norms. That'll benefit society at large.

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Originally Posted by skoda0505 View Post
And this introduces a small category of people in NCR who bought their 1.99 mHawk engine cars during these 8 months of the ban. The resale value for their vehicles will now potentially go for a toss!
Hahaha! So true. These will surely be looked down upon in the market-place.

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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
I doubt Mahindra suddenly came up with a new engine to meet the NGT ban. The development, tests and strategy of use would have been in the making for years.
Apparently Mahindra was already working on the 1.99L due to some export markets where bigger diesels attract a higher tax. Hence, they were the best prepared.
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