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Old 25th August 2016, 09:57   #61
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

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One needs to unlearn? This really beats me.
-- I drove MT cars all my life until 2011 when I switched to an AT, a very basic automatic hatchback, A-Star. And it took me 10 minutes to get the full hang of the vehicle. In fact jumping from AT to MT will be difficult because of presence of an extra pedal and a stick. Not the other way around. People just talk things without giving it a try.
Very true - This is exactly what I mean here. Some reasons are very ridiculous, such as the cars would go backwards in flyovers without clutch, it is impossible to move at 1/2 kmph speed etc. How many people are open to try new things in general? Since they have driven manuals so far, they simply find several reasons to justify manuals are better than automatics.
Even the price of the car is not enough reason - These days there are many options for automatics at different price ranges. It is just a matter of perception, and not really a fact.
If Maruti launches their Swift with only Automatic option, (or even better - automatic priced lower than manual) then all these sort of justifications would stop and growth would double / triple overnight!
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Old 25th August 2016, 10:38   #62
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

Is there any auto transmission manufacturer have their facility in India? Or any auto transmission component manufacturer here who supply to any global transmission manufacturer?
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Old 25th August 2016, 11:59   #63
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

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smartcat, is this 'unique' feature really unique to Honda (and a world first) or do the dual clutch (DSG/DCT etc.) replicate this with the 'Sports' mode?
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I don't think its possible (from technology point of view) for DSGs to hold revs at close to 4000 RPM (plus or minus 10%) all through. I think a DSG will downshift when you hit the brakes as you approach the corner and hence revs will drop momentarily (before rising up again, as you hit the accelerator).

But in a sportily tuned CVT, the gearbox will choose a progressively lower gear ratio, as you hit the brakes as you approach a corner, but still keep the RPM more or less at 4000 RPM. And as you accelerate out of the corner, the gearbox will choose a progressively higher gear ratio - all this while keeping the revs close to 4000 RPM.
While not exactly the same thing, VW DSG's do have the intelligence to adapt to the terrain. I have noticed that when I am driving in the ghats, even in D mode the DSG delays up shifts and downshifts faster to keep the engine at a higher RPM and more in the power band. So on a level stretch at 40-50 kmph, I more often than not will be in D5, at similar speeds if I am ascending or descending a ghat, the DSG more often than not will be in D3 or 4.

The converse also happens, on a straight long stretch if I am driving with a light foot in S mode, it up shifts sooner than it typically would do.

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
One needs to unlearn? This really beats me. I drove MT cars all my life until 2011 when I switched to an AT, a very basic automatic hatchback, A-Star. And it took me 10 minutes to get the full hang of the vehicle. In fact jumping from AT to MT will be difficult because of presence of an extra pedal and a stick. Not the other way around. People just talk things without giving it a try.
Actually there is some truth in this. Agree that the switch from an AT to MT is much harder for a person who has never driven an MT (In fact will be impossible for a lot of people). But even adapting to an AT from an MT for some people takes time. I guess this has something to do with the way a person has learnt driving and how the brain subconsciously manages it. Personally for me, when I drove an AT for the first time, as you said, it was a natural thing and I was fine and settled in 10 min. And I can switch to an MT (even after long gaps) without any issue. Same was true for one of my cousins who drives my car. But for another person (who has a lot of experience and is a good driver), the switch was hard. He would keep jamming the brake with the left leg, subconsciously try to shift gears. After 4-5 attempts which resulted in a few near misses, he did not want to drive my car any more. Then he tried again in some open roads by concentrating hard and overcoming the MT behavior.

Bottom line, it took some time for him to start driving a AT in a comfortable and relaxed manner and yes, I could not figure out why it was so difficult.
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Old 25th August 2016, 16:34   #64
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In quite a few (western) countries when you get your license you get a manual license if you take the driving test in a manual car. That allows you to drive both manual and automatic cars. However, if you take you driving test in an automatic you will get a license for automatic cars only. You are not allowed to drive a manual car.

Most people in Europe will still learn to drive in manual cars, but for instance my mother got her drivers license only when she was well into her sixties. The manual gears confused her, so she took lessons on an automatic car and got an "automatic" license. It also meant we had to get an automatic family car as my dad was a strictly manual man.
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Old 25th August 2016, 16:55   #65
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

Global marketshare (approximates) of various types of transmissions -

Manual: 46%
Torque Convertor AT: 31.5%
CVT: 11.5%
DSG: 8.5%
AMT: 1%
1 Speed (Electric): 1%

http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...ion-worldwide/


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Most people in Europe will still learn to drive in manual cars,
Why haven't the Europeans taken for the automatics as enthusiastically as the Americans? Any guesses?
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Old 25th August 2016, 19:04   #66
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Default Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Why haven't the Europeans taken for the automatics as enthusiastically as the Americans? Any guesses?

Not sure, but here are a few thoughts. European cars have always been a lot smaller with smaller engines then American one. Petrol in Europe has always been considerable more expensive. So manual boxes made more sense on small cars with small engines with already little power. Certainly a few decades back auto boxes were big and cumbersome and it really had a big impact on fuel efficiency.

It takes a long time for the public and market to adjust to new realities. Automatic were seen, see my example, for people who could not drive a proper car.

So I think it stems from history and it's still quite a way to come close to the USA approach. In general I find Americans prefer convenience above all and if it comes at little or no cost that's what they like.

The (western) European tend to be more frugal If not to say Calvinistic. I'm trying not to generalise but I do think American and Europeans do have a different look at life and it shows in their consumer behaviour and the products that are offered in the respective market.

Remarkably, my own wife who always drive manual cars everywhere, got herself an automatic car when we lived in the USA. She was very happy with it. Back in the Netherlands she preferred a manual car again.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 25th August 2016 at 19:05.
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Old 25th August 2016, 19:12   #67
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Why haven't the Europeans taken for the automatics as enthusiastically as the Americans? Any guesses?
How are you gonna hold that big mac if you are busy shifting gears?
The American way of life is built around driving - drive through fast food restaurants, drive through ATMs, big roads with no footpath (big grassbank though), drive in theaters (become lesser now) and the likes.
Makes sense that the provision is there to do something else while driving, and you need atleast one hand free all the time !
I confess I took to this ease of use thing and never learnt to drive a stick shift car properly. I can hobble through in an MT car, but that's not proper driving.
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Old 25th August 2016, 20:13   #68
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

20 best cars with manual transmission (Popular Mechanics)

For us manual lovers. Hope persists!

Last edited by nd4$pd : 25th August 2016 at 20:16.
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Old 29th August 2016, 10:41   #69
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Default Re: Automatics growing in popularity, but still only 7% of the market

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How are you gonna hold that big mac if you are busy shifting gears?
The American way of life is built around driving - drive through fast food restaurants, drive through ATMs, big roads with no footpath (big grassbank though), drive in theaters (become lesser now) and the likes.
Makes sense that the provision is there to do something else while driving, and you need atleast one hand free all the time !
I confess I took to this ease of use thing and never learnt to drive a stick shift car properly. I can hobble through in an MT car, but that's not proper driving.
I feel most people's preference for autos is more to do with reasons such as:

1. Not having a clutch is having one less thing to worry about when driving. Also allows the driver that little more time to enjoy the drive
2. Better let a machine do something more efficiently (I know most manual lovers might disagree) than a human

Similar arguments can be made towards having cruise control as well. Recently I went on an approx 500 km trip that allowed me to use cruise control for almost 400 of these kms and I thoroughly enjoyed not having to constantly concentrate on the accelerator and keep checking the MID to see what was the speed.
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