Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st September 2016, 12:16   #61
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 61
Thanked: 49 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Am I the only one smelling something foul ?? The scoring for Renault KWID for Adult Occupant Protection is 0.00 out of maximum possible 17.00 points. As per NCAP Rating system, the score becomes zero if chest compression on impact is severe. GNCAP noted the same for KWID : "the protection to the chest due to high chest compression was poor and the passengerís chest received weak protection as well". Yet it is given1-star.

As per my limited understanding of NCAP system, no star should have been given (similar to Honda Mobilio without Airbags).
The reason for giving 1 star is that, in a Kwid there is good protection for the head (Green Color) against Mobilio's poor protection for the head (red color).
Attached Thumbnails
Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested-mobilio-head.jpg  

rselva is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2016, 16:23   #62
BHPian
 
AutoNoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NCR
Posts: 208
Thanked: 205 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by rselva View Post
The reason for giving 1 star is that, in a Kwid there is good protection for the head (Green Color) against Mobilio's poor protection for the head (red color).
I humbly but strongly disagree with this statement.

Overall score for frontal impact (full / offset) is taken as the Worst score from : (Head contact with CRS + Head Excursion + Head Exposure) + Score from Neck Tension + Score from Chest.

As per Euro NCAP 2015 rating system, following minimum scores are needed (out of max. 17.00) for respective star ratings for Adult Occupant Protection :
***** - 80% (13.6)
**** - 70% (11.9)
*** - 50% (8.5)
** - 30% (5.1)
* - 20% (3.4)

Since, in KWID, high chest compression was observed, the Chest score was 0.00, therefore overall score was 0.00. In such a scenario, how it got 1-star, I can't understand.

For year 2016 & 2017, the score requirements have been made further stringent by Euro NCAP (GNCAP team might still have rated the cars based on earlier point system, as they are last year's models) :
***** - 80% (13.6)
**** - 70% (11.9)
*** - 60% (10.2)
** - 50% (8.5)
* - 40% (6.8)

References :

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Sharing the following document for everyone's reference. I hope this would be helpful.

Global Automotive Safety Regulations in Nutshell - January 2015
Source : http://www.wissenbaumllp.com/download.aspx
Direct PDF Link : Global Automotive Safety Regulations in Nutshell

Refer pages 32 to 39.
2. Euro NCAP - Assessment Protocol - Overall Rating Refer pages 5 to 8.

Last edited by AutoNoob : 21st September 2016 at 16:35.
AutoNoob is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2016, 17:18   #63
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 61
Thanked: 49 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
I humbly but strongly disagree with this statement.

Overall score for frontal impact (full / offset) is taken as the Worst score from : (Head contact with CRS + Head Excursion + Head Exposure) + Score from Neck Tension + Score from Chest.

As per Euro NCAP 2015 rating system, following minimum scores are needed (out of max. 17.00) for respective star ratings for Adult Occupant Protection :
***** - 80% (13.6)
**** - 70% (11.9)
*** - 50% (8.5)
** - 30% (5.1)
* - 20% (3.4)

Since, in KWID, high chest compression was observed, the Chest score was 0.00, therefore overall score was 0.00. In such a scenario, how it got 1-star, I can't understand. .......
How do you know the Chest compression score was zero? Have attached an excerpt from the excel sheet used for NCAP rating. As you can see there are lot of variables which would explain a score above zero. Unless you have access to these variables' scores, you can't suggest the rating is influenced by Renault ( I don't know what else your statement implies).


Source: From http://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engin...g-information/
Attached Images
 
rselva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2016, 17:46   #64
BHPian
 
AutoNoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NCR
Posts: 208
Thanked: 205 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by rselva View Post
How do you know the Chest compression score was zero?
I am aware of this excel sheet and its working. And I agree that I don't have any reference for the point you raised. However, I arrived at that conclusion as the injury pattern on rest of the body is better than chest and there is no other negative modifier specified for AOP.

Now, even if my conclusion on method to arrive at zero score was incorrect, the fact remains that the score is zero. In such a case, how 1-star can be assigned?? Minimum score of 3.4 (as per 2015 rating system) is required for that.

Quote:
you can't suggest the rating is influenced by Renault ( I don't know what else your statement implies)
I might have inadvertently suggested something similar, but that was more out of astonishment based on two contradicting facts [0.00 score, 1-Star] and nothing else. I do not have any evidence to point finger at anyone.
AutoNoob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2016, 18:04   #65
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,731
Thanked: 15,786 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by rselva View Post
Unless you have access to these variables' scores, you can't suggest the rating is influenced by Renault ( I don't know what else your statement implies).
Either ways, a rating of zero AOP and a one star rating doesn't make much sense to me. It's like saying this is a better way to die than hitting the head on the steering. Isn't it?

By the way, quite surprised that Global NCAP give so many chances for a company to test one single car from their lineup again and again.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2016, 03:52   #66
RSR
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,621
Thanked: 4,534 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Am I the only one smelling something foul ?? The scoring for Renault KWID for Adult Occupant Protection is 0.00 out of maximum possible 17.00 points. As per NCAP Rating system, the score becomes zero if chest compression on impact is severe. GNCAP noted the same for KWID : "the protection to the chest due to high chest compression was poor and the passenger’s chest received weak protection as well". Yet it is given 1-star.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Either ways, a rating of zero AOP and a one star rating doesn't make much sense to me. It's like saying this is a better way to die than hitting the head on the steering. Isn't it?
There was a mistake in the earlier pdf, I think. Global NCAP have uploaded an updated pdf with the correct points for AOP, and it explains why the Kwid (IV) with a driver airbag was given a 1* G-NCAP rating for AOP (by scoring 8.28 points out of 17):

Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested-screenshot_20160926031538.jpg

Full report: http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...ER-Airbags.pdf

Quote:
By the way, quite surprised that Global NCAP give so many chances for a company to test one single car from their lineup again and again.
Not really that surprising, since Global NCAP's aim is to make cars safer for occupants. So any manufacturer who willingly carries out improvements would get additional chances (I believe the manufacturer partly funds subsequent tests i.e. reimburses the cost of purchase for the improved versions). The Polo got an additional chance after airbags were made standard, the Mobilio got a variant with dual airbags tested after the initial car got a 0* rating etc.

Although the 1* rating for a car with a driver airbag is still worrisome, Renault have indeed shown interest to make improvements. Even in the videos, the difference between the Kwid (I) and Kwid (IV) is very obvious. I still think Renault have not done enough! The reinforcements have been added only to the driver's side and the driver airbag is still optional only on the top variant.

I would have preferred a test of the Brio/Amaze by Global NCAP instead of the Mobilio. The Brio & Amaze have their top speeds electronically limited to 140 kmph (for both petrol & diesel versions), while the Mobilio & BR-V don't have such a restriction on top speed - something that's very strange indeed.

In fact, I'd love to see every car in India whose base variant costs below 1 million rupees (ex-showroom) being subjected to the Global NCAP treatment!

Last edited by RSR : 26th September 2016 at 04:08.
RSR is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2016, 06:17   #67
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 8,731
Thanked: 15,786 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On a serious note though, the front end of the Mobilio is structurally identical to the Amaze & Brio. So it does tell us a little bit about the smaller cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
On the plus side, with a 3 star for a Mobilio with airbags, one can safely assume that the rest of the portfolio will score equal or better considering the Mobilio appears to have the most cost cutting involved with respect to build quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I would have preferred a test of the Brio/Amaze by Global NCAP instead of the Mobilio. The Brio & Amaze have their top speeds electronically limited to 140 kmph (for both petrol & diesel versions), while the Mobilio & BR-V don't have such a restriction on top speed - something that's very strange indeed.
One point that was noticed very recently in the Jazz thread was that the petrol versions of the Jazz doesn't have pre-tensioners fitted on the vehicle. It is only present on the diesel variants and only for the driver seat, as clarified by Honda customer care.

Pre-tensioners are mentioned clearly for the Mobilio, but I don't see them mentioned for Amaze or Brio. And seeing the Jazz effect, makes me wonder if those have it. Would be difficult for these two products to achieve a 3 star rating without it, as we have already seen with the Kwid how much of a difference the pre-tensioner makes.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2016, 11:20   #68
BHPian
 
heavenlybull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi
Posts: 119
Thanked: 105 Times
Default Re: Global NCAP: Updated Renault Kwid and Honda Mobilio tested

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Pre-tensioners are mentioned clearly for the Mobilio, but I don't see them mentioned for Amaze or Brio. And seeing the Jazz effect, makes me wonder if those have it.
The Amaze and Brio websites mention "Front Seat Belt Pretensioner with Load Limiter" in the top 2 variant of Brio and its optional in lower variants on the Amaze. Are we to assume then that they are present only on the driver side?
heavenlybull is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too... rajess_in The Indian Car Scene 644 10th June 2017 10:52
Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test volkman10 The Indian Car Scene 348 15th May 2017 12:52
Global NCAP tells Indian carmakers to adopt UN car safety standards a4anurag The Indian Car Scene 9 19th April 2016 07:37
Toyota Etios awarded 4-Stars in Global NCAP Crash Test technicalytuned The Indian Car Scene 48 13th February 2016 09:58
Indonesia: Updated Honda Mobilio launched; gets all-new interior Tushar The International Automotive Scene 7 1st February 2016 20:51


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:33.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks