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Old 29th September 2016, 23:04   #31
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

I have always had basic cars. A friend bought the corolla petrol and the car used to automatically increase the rpm while pressing the clutch and gear shifting to prevent stalling. I found the feeling to be absolutely ridiculous!
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Old 29th September 2016, 23:46   #32
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Default Re: Is car technology creating dumb drivers?

Democratic societies will need to push for their leaders to regulate these industries to do the right thing for the common good.

It is a fact that humans make lousy drivers. They simply have too many limitations that machines do not face.
1. Cannot see in the dark
2. Cannot see through objects
3. Cannot see what is behind them
4. Cannot see around corners
5. Cannot focus on more than one thing
6. Cannot co-operate
7. Cannot talk/communicate with more than one entity
8. Easily distracted (talking, eating, drinking)
9. Prone to fatigue
10. Other human emotions - anger, ego, restless

A self driving car with a 1000 laser driven sensors, ultrasound sensors, communication sensors, & cameras looking at everything around it, talking to all the other cars, satellites and sensors outside the car (streets, traffic signs etc), with powerful processors, can process all this data to do the right thing, all the time. Unlike humans who look at their cellphones and assume the path is clear. The last 10% of developing any new technology to maturity takes 90% of the time.

The next big waste is owning a car, and parking spaces. 90% of the time a car is a dead investment taking up space. You need parking space at home, parking space at work, parking space where you shop, airports, etc. And, 75% of the seats in cars go unused. A shared autonomous car can fix all this - drop people off and vanish into an underground dungeon to charge itself.

In the next 10 years, we will see more garages converted into livable spaces, more people hiring vehicles for a few minutes they need to commute.

Last edited by prasadee : 30th September 2016 at 00:04.
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Old 30th September 2016, 07:58   #33
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

My 2 cents on the title:

It's all about evolution. Technology evolves continuously. May be the evolution speed differs when considering between any interval period. A teenager who will drive a car (with legal approval) in the year 2070 may not know how a 1960 mark 1 ambassador handles a corner at a prominently good speed. The fact is, he does not need to and cannot know that because that is considered to be obsolete at his time. According to an old person who knows about it, in 2070 cannot say that the teenager is dumb. Instead, the teenager thinks that the old person is dumb if he cannot appreciate the handling of some car in 2070.

Like wise, the GENERAL (ideal human being) knowledge level varies time to time. I being at 32 right now may know about the technology as earlier as from 20 years back (may be earlier than that but I mean for practical purpose). The need for a person in, say 50 years from now, to know about manual pull crank engine start may be a mere waste.

The point is - I can learn and know the facts of automobile based on roughly how it was when I was at around the age of 10 and till my end. The same happens pretty much to anyone else.

My dad, who was an automobile enthusiast during his early 30's may be dumb according to me when considering the automobile technology era now. He may think that I am dumb when considering the automobile technology era during his time.

So my point is, dumb can be used in either direction in our context. Not knowing the past for a current person and not knowing the current for an old person.

I am trying to be more high level in regards to the automobile technology in this discussion because getting into a little detail may even lead to never ending debate

So my verdict - accept the current technology (at any given time) and enjoy the benefits of that and always be strong and aware of the basics (again, basics at the given time).

When in comes to automobile, it consist for Knowledge and interest. Interest is a personal item. Knowledge is the one that introduces the term DUMB.
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Old 30th September 2016, 09:11   #34
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Technologies like ABS, GPS are making for a better driving experience. Also, why forget the air con or even the radio? I remember anybody buying M800 DX was looked at with envy and the typical comment was "He has too much money." So, automotive technology has been fairly useful.

However, the latest driver-less cars have me a bit concerned given that the machine will be as capable as the person who programmed the machine. So there may be some way to go before we have mass produced (read Alto volumes) driver-less cars. Also, the roads in India need to be better. imagine a driver-less car swerving to avoid a pothole or an incorrectly parked rickshaw.

Also, my ultimate fear remains. In some sci-fi world, machines may decide that humans are incapable of driving, and there goes the entire fun.

Last edited by Samurai : 30th September 2016 at 10:58. Reason: removed ABS talk
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Old 30th September 2016, 10:02   #35
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

My take on the GPS - This is now absolutely essential even though it was unnecessary earlier. For example, in the city, Google Maps can show you the traffic on your way. It even calculates the fastest route dynamically and gives you an estimated time to reach your destination.

In the pre-GPS era, there was not so much traffic to require such features. But now, you will be thanking the GPS if it helped you to avoid missing your flight due to the traffic jams.
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Old 30th September 2016, 11:00   #36
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Please don't discuss ABS and its stopping distance, it has been beaten to death in another thread long back. - Support Team
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Old 30th September 2016, 11:10   #37
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

I think that we are being too romantic about driving, considering the group here that is a given.
But for the average driver, the car is just a way to get from A-B, which might be the case for most of us on a normal work day.
There are too many cars and too many people with no interest in driving on the roads today and for them all of these driver aids just make things easier and the drive more tolerable.
My wife still can't parallel park without breaking into a sweat, think about how convenient parking assist or just the rear camera is.Parking without assist is difficult work, why learn it if you don't have to.

I wouldn't put ABS in that, I think that is a genuinely important technology which all cars should have.

So I think these technology is only catering to a need else it would die anyway. Call it laziness or just lack of interest. And these are people who are good at their work and have great careers or are good people.

I personally agree to the view that all transportation should be outside human control, especially on public roads. If anyone really likes to drive, go find yourself a track or a hill or desert.
I live in Singapore and love the public transport here. I sometimes wonder about the amount of time I wasted in traffic in India during commute so I am looking forward to a time when mass transport is "automated"

To each his own, I say. In the meanwhile if you can do a perfect J turn or parallel park perfectly in the first try, feel good about yourself but most of the others don't care.

Last edited by jaygeetee : 30th September 2016 at 11:14.
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Old 30th September 2016, 14:04   #38
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Default Re: Is car technology creating dumb drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prasadee View Post
Democratic societies will need to push for their leaders to regulate these industries to do the right thing for the common good.

------

In the next 10 years, we will see more garages converted into livable spaces, more people hiring vehicles for a few minutes they need to commute.
I realize that eventually that day will come unless there is some major upheaval to regulate the world population, but ... the above is quite depressing to consider. Simply 'Existing' is not the same as 'Living'. Similarly, 'Relocation' would not be the same as 'Travelling'.

Regardless of whatever form the 'BHP' takes, Horses, IC Engines or whatever comes next, I think we humans are genetically coded to appreciate controlling it and would never be satisfied with being a simple rider.

Not all technological advances make it more enjoyable for the driver though it can be subjective. Electronic vs. Hydraulic Power Steering for one, and Manual vs. Auto for another.

There are some stuff I wouldn't mind having though. It would cost a manufacturer peanuts to provide multiple states of tune for a car optimized for different conditions but only Luxury brands do it

Secondly, it is not a very complicated mod to adjust the stiffness of the suspension. Why can't regular manufactures provide it ex-Showroom.
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Old 30th September 2016, 15:04   #39
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
The question:

is a standard refrain over the ages. We've heard it in multiple forms:
  • Are calculators making dumber students?
  • Are spelling/grammar checkers creating illiterate graduates?
  • Are smartphones making us dumber?
  • (and so on)

A Case Study: Anti-lock Brakes (ABS)
Let's take ABS as an example, as its a good point you've mentioned in the opening post:
Driver Assistance
Today's trend is various forms of driver assistance, including and upto semi-autonomous driving.
[*]On the other hand, there might be a clown who decides to misuse these driving assistance features, and instead use them as a driver replacement feature by deciding to watch a movie.[/list]

That was a very succinctly put opinion. I couldn't agree more.
Dumb morons on the roads will always be there and there will always be safe drivers who could benefit from advanced technologies. Technology does not make humans dumber. It is the overt reliance on tech without common sense input, that is the problem.
If these features can help avoiding an accident or a fatality on the roads, then its ever welcome.

The refrain is very similar to the one which we are commonly asked in the medical field. Will robots replace surgeons?

Cheerio!
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Old 30th September 2016, 17:40   #40
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

Not the driver, but in my opinion, the mechanic is going to get dumber with advanced technology. Just like a doctor, sitting thousand miles far, he will get the complete debug report, and might be through a remote software upgrade he will be able to eradicate some bug. The option to open up the hood and check the car might be rare as time advances.
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Old 30th September 2016, 22:39   #41
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Default Re: Is car technology creating dumb drivers?

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Originally Posted by Swaraj!! View Post
I realize that eventually that day will come unless there is some major upheaval to regulate the world population, but ... the above is quite depressing to consider. Simply 'Existing' is not the same as 'Living'. Similarly, 'Relocation' would not be the same as 'Travelling'.
Even today I love horses. When I go to national parks, I go on horse rides, and cross rivers, and navigate harsh terrains. Being able to feel the live animal, communicate with it is awesome, there is nothing like it. That said, I cannot imagine having a stable at home, taking care of it and commuting to work on a horse or a horse drawn carriage.

Coming to cars I do feel for you. When there is a demand for it, there will be ample number of race tracks and scenic tracks to enjoy the love of driving/riding. I don't think I will ever stop riding/driving through the scenic drives of southern california on my own. That said, I cannot say the same for 3/4th of the populace who could care less about driving by themselves. Ultimately, demand and supply will decide what stays/remains.

With respect to regulation and voting for propositions, I will definitely support any moves that would reduce or eliminate road accident fatalities including completely autonomous cars and infrastructure. Car to car communication, and car to infrastructure communication standards definitely needs standardization, regulation and support in the interest of common good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livetodrive View Post
Not the driver, but in my opinion, the mechanic is going to get dumber with advanced technology. Just like a doctor, sitting thousand miles far, he will get the complete debug report, and might be through a remote software upgrade he will be able to eradicate some bug. The option to open up the hood and check the car might be rare as time advances.
Unemployment would certainly be a concern with the advent of artificial intelligence and autonomous bots doing everything for us in the future. Imagine solar powered bots that are self sustaining, doing everything from farming, cooking, driving etc etc.

Last edited by prasadee : 30th September 2016 at 22:42.
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Old 1st October 2016, 03:15   #42
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

We being hardcore car enthusiasts are way too emotional regarding cars but the rest of the people around us aren't. It's a mere mode of transport for them or an asset just bought to show off the world.

Now, With the help of technology, things have become a lot easier and roads have become comparatively safer. See, what I feel is even we auto heads need the support of these technologies some time or the other cause at the end we are all human beings!

No matter how good of a driver you are but when mentally tensed or upset due to a personal reason one is bound to make an error (Especially while parking! At least I am) and am glad at those times for the parking sensors and cameras my cars comes equipped with helping me park the car without much hustle. It further helps me maintain my composure! At times such petty instances does makes you irritated further enraging you.

Moreover, plenty of us have multiple vehicles in our family? Are all your family members into cars like you? No! Is your chauffeur a well trained certified guy who will not make an error while driving? No! Hence, at the end of the day they too need assistance. For e.g (A very common instance that happens with all of us) At a tight parking space, your driver
didn't had the assistance of sensors and camera, the rear pillar is thick. Now, you cannot get down of the vehicle, measure the area and park the vehicle right? He will be dependent on his instincts and guess what they were't correct that day and he ends up hitting the vehicle. At these times, such features are a savior! If he still makes an error, you can catch him and ask how did it happen even when he had assistance.

Features like ABS with EBD and Airbags are necessity now same goes with fancy equipments like Hill assist, Electronic Stability control, traction control etc. We auto heads invest a lot of time in improving our driving skills but there are plenty of people who simply doesn't have the time to do that! They learn the basic driving, get the license and starts driving. Yes, some extra features like lane departure warning, Active cruise control, Intelligent Speed Assist etc. does may make a driver lazy but then the basic purpose for developing such features by manufacturers are to decrease the fatigue while driving improving the overall experience. Now, if the consumer mis-uses such feature and becomes careless and ends up in an accident, one cannot blame the Technology for that! It's a machine afterall!

Regarding features like Service reminder, Tyre Pressure Monitor etc. they too are equally important as not everyone has the time to remember when was the last service done or at what kilometers was it done! Some people have there cars chauffeur driven, how will they get to know if some one doesn't tells them that service is needed? At such instances, these features plays an extremely important role.

Recently, a few months back, A close friend of mine was driving back home from work and the TPMS got activated due to low pressure and instantly she called up being scared. Upon explanation she understood how it functions and now she feels so much secured and confident while driving as she knows if something goes wrong with the tyre, TPMS will warn her.

To sum it up, technology isn't making the drivers dumb. It's simply making some of them lazy and careless but then that doesn't means auto companies should stop developing features because there are plenty of people out there who actually needs it due to various reasons, age being extremely common factor! These days, due to increasing transportation costs, unsafe streets and plenty of other issues in our urban community driving has become a necessity. Hence, often a normal person needs such features, it further boosts there confidence and helps them drive even more safely.


IMHO, to improve the overall driving experience of everybody the following features should be made mandatory in all the cars. (Most of them aren't possible as it will increase the car price by a fair margin but I feel they are needed in our Indian driving condition):-
  • Automatic Emergency Braking
  • Electronic Stability Control
  • Driver Attention Detection
  • Front Airbags
  • ABS with EBD
  • Reversing Sensors
  • Traction Control
  • Blindspot Warning System
  • Head Restraints
  • 3 Point Seat belts

P.S - Even I need Parking sensors at times while parking! That doesn't makes me a great or a poor driver. It highly depends on your surrounding. So, please stop judging drivers on the basis of how they park!

Last edited by YashD : 1st October 2016 at 03:43.
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Old 1st October 2016, 09:49   #43
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Currently, nobody is making aircrafts for pilotless flying, thanks to insurance industry. Drones are designed for non-human transport, so drone pilots ditch the aircraft when things get tough. To make pilot-less human transport planes, too many aviation and insurance laws have to change. Same goes for driver-less cars. Right now most countries don't allow driver less cars.
I'd welcome Driver-less Autorickshaws in Bangalore though. At least then they'll go by the meter.

My biggest fear with electronic gimmicks in a car is how these seemingly totally-unrelated things can spoil the driving experience. Imagine the car refusing to start because the external mirror didn't fold / unfold completely.
One of my friends has a Tata Safari which just loses power while cruising just because the "service light" came on. Tata guys haven't figured why it happens even after many years. The problem still exists.

BTW, i drive a Mahindra tractor or something like that. So, no electronics.

-- Torqy
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Old 2nd October 2016, 13:08   #44
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Default Re: Is automotive technology creating dumber drivers?

We are at a technology inflection point. The main concern of thread, about dumb drivers, is a moot point. If you have children younger than 10 years, you can be fairly sure that they will never own a car or even drive one, ever. Not because they can't afford to, because they don't need to.

Right now, on average private cars spend 96% of their time parked somewhere. Yes, the utilization of private car is about 4%. And they spend this time parked in expensive real estate called parking lot. Driverless cars will allow us not to own cars at all. Imagine driverless Uber cars. There will be no driver tantrums, the closest available driverless rental car will accept your request, all the time. Only people living in remote areas need to own cars, which can still be driverless.

This will take out 90% of the private cars out of circulation. And bikes, why do you need bikes when air conditioned cars can take you anywhere?

Not convinced? New York city went from 99% horse driven traffic to 99% automobile driven traffic in just 13 years. Once you hit that inflection point, there is no return. This time it will be faster. The inflection point is predicted to be 2019, but it could be earlier too.

And the cost will be lot less. IC engined cars have an efficiency of 17-20%, rest of the energy is wasted. Electric cars have an efficiency of 85% or above. That's almost 5X efficiency.

Still not convinced? See the following hour long video, which is fully supported by data. It is not a fantasy, it is already happening.


Last edited by Samurai : 2nd October 2016 at 13:14.
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Old 2nd October 2016, 15:23   #45
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Default Re: Is car technology creating dumb drivers?

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Originally Posted by prasadee View Post
In the next 10 years, we will see more garages converted into livable spaces, more people hiring vehicles for a few minutes they need to commute.
Or we can choose to control the damn population from exploding. The more we have of something, the less value they inherently possess.
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