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Old 25th October 2016, 23:34   #61
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

A poem to partly summarise the Bombay House scenario by an onlooker like me:

Tata Twenty Fourth Oct 2016

Cyrus bhai, Tata bye bye
Ratan bhai Tata, hi hi,
Why Cyrus had to go is a mystery ?
Why Ratan had to come at age 78, the Bombay House has its coterie ?

Mistry constituted a Group Executive Council, which did his flattery,
Tata Sons whoa, but all powerful, no big Tata has any son, will be written in history,
Come Cyrus Mistry, the Tata empire's negative growth was topic in all eatery,
That JLR and TCS only were earning, charging the Tata empire battery,
Tata Sons deliberated more and more, negatives in balance sheet & registry,

Come D Day Oct 24, the ruthless, powerful winds swept away the 48 year old Mistry,
Ratanji, you will be around 120 days, your hard work in clay, created the new Tata pottery,
Nation wants to know, Arnab Goswami Now Times is getting jittery,
Pundits in the UK and elsewhere watching the Bombay House scenery,

Corporate hero Ratanji, what more you will do to strengthen the Tata artery?
Jamshedji, JRD, Ratan, real Tata Ratans of the millenium, were CEO's, and for nation no worry,
Vision, foresight, acquisition, growth sorely missed since 2012, for India not hunky-dory,

Cyrus bhai, Tata bye bye
Ratan bhai Tata, hi hi,
____________________________

Admins may please delete if not compatible with this thread !

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 25th October 2016 at 23:49.
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Old 26th October 2016, 02:18   #62
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Now what magic Ratan Tata is going to do is the million dollar question. This will also end in a whimper like Narayana Murthy's return to Infosys. Every one can't be a 'Steve jobs' particularly when you are 80.
Brilliant point, it was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the heading and you wrote it. Sometimes the person becomes the shadow of the company and keeps coming back.. though I too am of the opinion that a retirement should be for good, its a decision taken after much introspect, deep analysis and also because one doesn't feel like it anymore.

Coming back from this mostly always comes back to bite, if not from within the company, from external sources. Personally, I think TATA as a company needs more than a couple of tweaks and a leadership change.. it needs a total revamp of vision. Even if for 4 months, a mistake in my view.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I completely agree. Any potential candidate will be apprehensive because:

- Ratan Tata can fire you.
Exactly, I know I've to be careful of one-man organizations.. i.e one man in the sense of wielding such power that one can always undo what others do. In the cases of such companies with such diverse portfolio, no leadership can be similar. Some are pro-risk, some are risk-averse, some like to pump in R&D, some like to make safe bets on readily available intellectual resources, some lead alone and some lead with a team.

You mentioned the number of exits from TATA, exactly the same as Infosys. Somehow it doesn't seem like leaders get a lot of support from the "true" rulers of the shindig.

It seems very obvious to me that there is going to be more bumping into walls for the next few years as the tussle goes on between the 1st and 2nd largest shareholders (reminiscent though not completely of the nasty battle between Winterkorn and Ferdinand Piech in which the longer-time helmer Piech came out on tops).

The mess just got messy.
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Old 26th October 2016, 05:54   #63
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Guys, isn't there a comparison between the current situation in Tata with the situation in Samajwadi Party, S. P. in UP. Where the older generation could resist the younger generations way of working/policies, etc.
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Old 26th October 2016, 06:08   #64
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Looks like TCS CEO - Mr. Chandra is now being considered for the chairman's post.

Quote:
In a move that is being read as a sign that N Chandrasekaran of Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) and Ralf Speth of Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) could be strong contenders for the position of chairman of Tata Sons, the two were elevated to board positions at the group's holding company.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/55060311.cms
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Old 26th October 2016, 06:30   #65
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

A forward that I got on WhatsApp.

ET front page: Nov 2011
Name:  IMG20161025WA0021.jpg
Views: 2287
Size:  73.5 KB

ET front page: Oct 2016
Name:  IMG20161025WA0018.jpg
Views: 2293
Size:  78.2 KB

It's so ironic.
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Old 26th October 2016, 07:27   #66
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

I don't think there's going to be any serious litigation. At worst Cyrus Mistrys' plea would be that he wasn't given a 15 day notice and he should be given the same, but now that his office would have been disbanded, there's nothing left to fight for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
No one is ever safe at the top...
There has to be some stability. No one can / will put in high quality work under the assumption that s/he possibly won't be sitting in that chair the very next day.

Quote:
This is not the first time someone's been fired and will not be the last...
On the contrary, this better be a one off case, people can't expect to be fired randomly and that too so disgracefully.

Quote:
Firstly, for the past 4 years Tata has found itself in a stalemate when compared to the breakneck growth under RNT. I understand the need to learn about the group, consolidation, long term plans but c'mon 4 years of running the firm and atleast one major decision to be really proud of. Being risk averse is not a bad thing but Cyrus Mistry was like watching Rahul Dravid bat on a bad day. He would be not out at the crease with very little to show for it.
Can agree partially, but I believe he turned Tata Motors around. Tiago, Hexa, Sway, Nexon are a result of that turn around. Wondering if anyone can dismiss that there was no sincere effort.

Also, keeping Tata Consultancy Services afloat with stable growth during an IT slowdown is not poor showmanship.

Quote:
Secondly, Mr.Mistry's answer to most issues was to sell if it was easy to do. If this was the strategy Tata used every time it faced a challenge the only firm under the umbrella right now would be TCS!
There'll often be counter perspectives, but the ones in Cyrus Mistrys' favor are quite strong.

The UK Steel business was bleeding & the group would've lost enormously with just the labour pension fund liabilities. No wonder even the UK Govt offered to somewhat help to cover a small part of those pension funds. Almost everyone will justify what Cyrus did as a necessary financially prudent decision (Many will say just because RNT somehow 'got' the Knighthood, doesn't mean that the business should suffer for his personal glory.)

Docomo issue was out of his hands, he'd approached the RBI to allow payment, RBI asked PM Modi, and PM Modi denied permission. There's nothing even Mr Tata can do about it.

Quote:
Thirdly, I am sure Mr.Mistry must have been given the option of gracefully stepping down before being fired. Perhaps pride and a pallonji backing meant he thought otherwise, but he could have saved face for both himself and the organisation much earlier.
It's day 3. Almost all sources indicate that he was not at all given the chance to resign. It was literally like 10 mins before the board meeting that he was indirectly told that this may come up.

It was clearly a well planned ambush by RNT. And this behaviour not just as a principal shareholder, but also as the nature of Mr. RNT, has shocked ALOT of people.

Quote:
Finally, there is no dearth of candidates who can replace Mistry. Let's be honest we're not talking about Tendulkar here, and even then it hasn't stopped India from winning.
That's true, but now there'll be SO much boardroom bureaucracy that the new chairman/chairwoman will have to deal with.

C'mon should we think Cyrus Mistry will take this lying down ? Now he'll be the 18% shareholder sitting on the board who can grill the new chairman for any decision & atleast cause delays by throwing up "concerns" about precautions. Anything adverse and he'll go knocking at the company law tribunal claiming that the new management is working against the interest of the minority shareholders.

And ofcourse, the elephant in the room, there's be NO clear & direct answer as to "WHY ?" this was done to Cyrus. This mystery will only harm Tata.

Even I personally am perplexed that every time a good leader tries to change something, he's somehow put out of the way under mysterious circumstances. Karl Slym who took the first step to change Tata Motors, after whom Cyrus Mistry took the second step.

Anyway, this incident has definitely left a deep scar on the façade of the Tata brand.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 26th October 2016 at 07:32.
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Old 26th October 2016, 09:17   #67
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Guys, there is always more to it than meets the eye and comes to the press. Rest assured, from what is known in the inner circles, this was the best step. Ratan Tata is not coming in on 'whims and fancies' - there are deeper and justifiable reasons at work - cant be disclosed in a public forum.

It is a good step for Tata sons, from what I know of it. It will be interesting to wait and watch and see how much some of this actually comes out. Good corporate drama for a change, after Mallya and politicos and so on!
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Old 26th October 2016, 10:00   #68
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

For us what really matters is whether Cyrus Mistry was good for Tata Motors or not. Has there been improvements in Tata Motor products since Mistry. What will happen now since Ratan Tata is back?

I have never owned a Tata car, so I won't try to speculate.

Last edited by Samurai : 26th October 2016 at 10:02.
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Old 26th October 2016, 10:29   #69
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Today in Economictimes - 'Shocked' Cyrus Mistry says removal unparalleled, terms board proceedings as invalid, illegal.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst
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Old 26th October 2016, 10:37   #70
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Quote:
Originally Posted by anshuman_v View Post
Guys, there is always more to it than meets the eye and comes to the press. Rest assured, from what is known in the inner circles, this was the best step. Ratan Tata is not coming in on 'whims and fancies' - there are deeper and justifiable reasons at work - cant be disclosed in a public forum.
Absolutely correct and the press quite often has motivated stories, based on a hidden agenda.

This article from Firstpost has given another twist - true, untrue or partially true?

"Ratan Tata not keen on Cyrus Mistry from the beginning? Seeds of Tata-Pallonji discord sown years back"

http://www.firstpost.com/business/ra...k-3071204.html
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Old 26th October 2016, 10:55   #71
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

"Trust us, we know best" is exactly the kind of rhetoric that gets public organisations into trouble. Shareholders won't buy that line, and they're justified in asking for an explanation.

As for the vacant job, no non-TATA worth his/her salt will want anything to do with it. Why sit on a chair that can be yanked out without notice when the lords feel like it? I expect an internal figurehead to get the nod, while the coterie continues to rule from behind the curtains. It really makes no difference now, because they've demonstrated in one ill-judged move the chief's office is ultimately ceremonial.

TATA needs a clear-out, not a leadership change.
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Old 26th October 2016, 11:23   #72
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
No one is ever safe at the top, whether its VW, Korean
The recent VW & Korean firings were because of scandals. I don't think Cyrus Mistry (whose family is worth 1 lakh crores) will indulge in petty financial fraud. Worst of all, Tata has still not provided the reason for his firing.

Quote:
This is not the first time someone's been fired and will not be the last.
Correct. But there's a difference in *how* you fire someone (assuming fraud isn't part of the equation).

Quote:
Finally, there is no dearth of candidates who can replace Mistry.
Suggest you go back and look at how difficult it was to find a boss for Tata Motors, leave aside the parent group. How many months the seat was empty? And how many times the occupant of that chair changed.

Quote:
Let's be honest we're not talking about Tendulkar here
I would say that being chairman of a group as big & diverse as Tata requires a LOT more talent than Sachin Tendulkar had (with due respect to him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
A forward that I got on WhatsApp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
For us what really matters is whether Cyrus Mistry was good for Tata Motors or not.
I don't think Cyrus was as active in Tata Motors as Ratan Tata was. Still, in the last 3 years, we've seen Tata put out its best products. The Bolt & Zest were competent, the Tiago was even better and the Hexa is a knockout. Perhaps, credit for these goes more to Karl Slym than anyone else.
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Old 26th October 2016, 12:02   #73
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

There is no doubt that sudden and abrupt removal of Cyrus has been a nasty surprise to everyone. It is said that Ratan had asked Cyrus to resign a month back and he had refused which led to this step. Each leader has his or her personal leadership style and way of functioning and I am quite sure that people are not removed because they have a different style. Ratan Tata has been the Chairman of Tata Sons for long and is seasoned enough to understand the consequences of any step that is being taken. Also I am quite sure that he is not the one to hold any personal grudges against anyone and act in a selfish way. In fact, Ratan was the one who brought Cyrus.

Before we get emotional and worked up, lets us segregate the manner of his removal with the need of his removal. The second one can be only answered when the dust settles and we have more information, data available in public domain.

Regarding the first one, if the person refuses to resign and there is a need to remove him, what options are left? The way Cyrus was given a different agenda for the meeting than others and the way his references were removed from the website point to a "surgical strike" with deep planning, if I may use the term.
There must be something much more than that what meets the eye.
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Old 26th October 2016, 13:57   #74
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Thirdly, I am sure Mr.Mistry must have been given the option of gracefully stepping down before being fired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by autobahnjpr View Post
There is no doubt that sudden and abrupt removal of Cyrus has been a nasty surprise to everyone. It is said that Ratan had asked Cyrus to resign a month back and he had refused which led to this step. Each leader has his or her personal leadership style and way of functioning and I am quite sure that people are not removed because they have a different style. Ratan Tata has been the Chairman of Tata Sons for long and is seasoned enough to understand the consequences of any step that is being taken. Also I am quite sure that he is not the one to hold any personal grudges against anyone and act in a selfish way. In fact, Ratan was the one who brought Cyrus.

Before we get emotional and worked up, lets us segregate the manner of his removal with the need of his removal. The second one can be only answered when the dust settles and we have more information, data available in public domain.

There must be something much more than that what meets the eye.
Exactly. I think we all lack exact details and are speculating, like Cyrus was not even given a chance, Mr. RNT wanted to take complete control etc. There must surely be enough reasons for Tata Sons not to disclose all the details in public, they will, if required, at appropriate forum and time will do so. Also, the matter may (or may not) go legal way, so all the more reasons for not giving details to media to sensationalize the issue.

As far as Mr. RNT is concerned, we can safely assume that he is not power-hungry. Once he stepped down, meant he did not want to take charge again, otherwise he could have amended the articles of associations 4 years back itself and continued as a Chairman. I am sure he would have taken up the interim charge only to provide much needed stability in what otherwise would have been volatile situation, and also out of his deep love and dedication towards the house of Tatas.

Whatever said and done, we might call them (Tatas) 'Sarkari co' or "Age-old institution', stubborned, one thing is for sure, they will not take such a decision without valid and compelling grounds.
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Old 26th October 2016, 15:09   #75
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Default Re: Ratan Tata makes a comeback as Chairman of Tata; Cyrus Mistry out

Excerpts from Cyrus Mistry's email below. Shocker - reminds me of how Henry Ford fired Lee Iacocca.

Quote:
To “replace“ your chairman without so much as a word of explanation and without affording him an opportunity to defend himself...must be unique in the annals of corporate history,“ Mistry said in the email.
Quote:
“The sudden action and lack of explanation has led to all manner of speculation and has done my and the group's reputation immeasurable harm,“ the former chairman said.
Source - Economic Times
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