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Old 6th December 2016, 19:56   #31
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

I hope that a basic 4x4 from Tatas is also released for civilians.

Regarding the demise of Gypsy, the days of petrol powered Army Vehicles, are numbered, at least in temperate climates as in India, primarily due to heavy fuel bills. With pollution and FE also applicable to most Armed Forces Vehicles, the days of DI diesel are also numbered, and CRDI has to be adopted. Though that brings complications and lowers reliability, it is the way things are panning out. Further the Armed Forces did need a higher class vehicle. The Gypsy is the lowest class (as far as payload/towing is concerned). Safari is one or two classes above.

Modern vehicles are in general more reliable compared the those a few decades old, and as far as I know, in battlefield performance is of primary importance and reliability comes second (until and unless the reliability is abysmal).
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Old 6th December 2016, 19:59   #32
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

As mentioned by Zappo, I hope VFJ makes the Safari indestructible
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
Now you cannot say that you have tested it more can you?
No, i cannot and never did.

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It's low sales are due to two reasons - the design of the vehicle
What is wrong with the design of this vehicle? I thought, it was one of the most appealing and timeless designs till date.

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The Scorpio is the only other competitor and the Safari beats it in off roading capabilities. Scorpio sells more due to the features/ creature comforts that it offers.
In which off-road parameters does the Safari beat the Scorpio?
And, which feature/creature comfort does Scorpio offer more than Safari which results in better sales except for maybe TPMS?
I thought Safari offers better creature comforts and ergonomics than Scorpio.

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If you are comparing Safari with an XUV just because both can seat 7, well then I don't know what to say.
I do not know why you are bringing XUV into the discussion.
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Old 6th December 2016, 20:06   #33
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Originally Posted by starter View Post
What is wrong with the design of this vehicle? I thought, it was one of the most appealing and timeless designs till date.

I said off roading capabilities, be it water wading depth, ground clearance, approach angle etc.

And Scorpio's feature list is far more comprehensive than Safari, would advise you to re-check. Also the materials used in the interior and layout of dashboard is very spartan in the Safari.

The problem with the design is that it has not changes drastically for a long time. Also due to less reliable nature of previous Tata products, Safari suffers as do most tata products in their respective categories.

The goodwill built up by Storme, Zest and Bolt is the reason Tiago is successful.

Last edited by ampere : 7th December 2016 at 08:56. Reason: Compressed space in quoted post
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Old 6th December 2016, 21:37   #34
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Since there's some discussion on this thread about evaluation of various military vehicles, I thought folks might be interested in this URL about one of the places (VRDE, Ahmednagar) that is used by the IA:

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/labs/VRD...g=facility.jsp

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 6th December 2016 at 21:41.
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Old 6th December 2016, 21:46   #35
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Armies the world over are migrating to the one-fuel concept. The Indian Army is no different. The logistics become simpler to manage and that is a very important factor in deciding the induction of new equipment.

The Forces are, sadly, renowned for using equipment belonging to their fore-fathers' generation: the Cheetah helicopters were first produced in the 1960s, the Shaktimaan trucks, Willys Jeeps and Jongas were WW II vintage or thereabouts, the 155mm artillery pieces were last procured in 1988 etc. The Gypsy, that way, is relatively new - just about two decades old in the Indian Army.It is a very good vehicle - nimble, reliable and it can go places. Two things that do not work in its favour are the fuel it consumes and its ability to be upgraded. Replacing a 1000 cc engine with a 1300cc one and then adding a powered steering is all that the manufacturers did to keep it relevant to the changing times. The fuel efficiency too is nothing much to be written about.

The story of the trials of the Storme lasting three years is exaggerated. Most equipment trials in the Forces last less than a year. The equipment has to pass the test of the summers in the deserts and the winter snow in the mountains in addition to sustained running to ascertain the MTBF and MTTR figures. The balance of the time is attributable to red tape, educating the elderly, convincing the bureaucrats that the requirement of the equipment is inescapable, change of governments, haggling with the OEM etc. A case in point is the induction of the Rafale fighters planes.

The Indian Army has three types of light vehicles. The staff cars ferry flag officers (brigadiers and above), some are meant for conveyance of troops and then there are those meant for mounting support weapons - anti-tank missiles, battlefield radars, machine guns etc. The Storme is likely to replace the Gypsy which was used in the 'conveyance of troops' role. The MM 550 is going strong in the support weapons role.
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Old 6th December 2016, 22:27   #36
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

I recall a news about how Chennai police wanted the Gypsy back in their camp after seeing that their newer acquirements like Innova was not able to take them through some of the narrow roads of Chennai. And they acquired around 100 Gypsys for city use!

The same may happen if Gypsy is replaced by a considerably different car like Safari - be it size, weight or manoeuvrability. Otherwise, both had to be of the same characteristics.
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Old 6th December 2016, 23:46   #37
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Well that's some good news for Tata Safari and it will surely help in its revival in the market even!

Other than defence vehicle, Tata Safari has been in use as official Government vehicle in various ministries across India.

I believe Tata Safari will regain its lost popularity amid current age urban SUVs these days.

PS - It's been quite some time since Storme is on roads. Shouldn't Tata be launching an all new Safari in coming year?
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Old 7th December 2016, 00:54   #38
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Seems like a panic situation for me. I have been an ardent admirer of Gypsy for decades. I am just a few months away from being able to finally afford a NEW Gypsy (a lifelong dream) without financial help from daddy. Should I beg my dad and book a Gypsy or do you think it will it be still be available for civilians through the first half of 2017?

Ironically, my dad is a Safari lover and currently drives a 2014 Storme after owning a 2006 Dicor 3L for 8 years.
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Old 7th December 2016, 01:53   #39
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Some are comparing Safari Storme with Gypsy. Cant blame you as the news reports are leading everyone into it.

Storme has been bought as a General Service Vehicle (GSV) - i.e. for staff use. Gypsy was always a misfit in that role thanks to it's 2 doors, horrible rear seat and uncomfortable suspension.

There is still a tender open for Light Strike Vehicle (LSV), which I would consider a true replacement for Gypsy and MM550.
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Old 7th December 2016, 02:45   #40
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Was visiting my brother in the front and was given a ride in the gypsy. Its back breaking in the rear seat and has no creature comforts, asides for probably reliability. But knowing the armed forces, i am sure they will quickly learn to keep these running efficiently.

About time we upgrade our forces. Great job Tatas.

Maddy
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Old 7th December 2016, 09:48   #41
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

This is what the Indian Army can do with a Gypsy :



For sure, they're not going to use Safari Storme for all the ground troops.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 7th December 2016 at 09:49.
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Old 7th December 2016, 10:07   #42
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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
This is what the Indian Army can do with a Gypsy
Oh please my dear friend ! This is a vehicle just for demonstration purpose. They do not do this all day and night. Nor do they do this on any of their deployed vehicles. They are meant to be bolted together strong enough. Do not compare this exercise to what they do with a vehicle for troop movement. A vehicle is never picked up based on how easily they can dismantle it.

Last edited by GTO : 7th December 2016 at 11:34. Reason: Removing video from quoted post :)
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Old 7th December 2016, 11:34   #43
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Having offroaded with both, I can tell you that the Safari Storme can only dream about the places a Gypsy can reach. However, these two cars are too different to be compared directly.

There is no way the Safari Storme can replace a Gypsy where 4x4 capability is the talking point. However, as Aditya101 said, it should be coming in for staff use. The Safari Storme is far more spacious & comfortable. A basic Gypsy can tire you out. For on-road use with *some* offroad use, the Safari Storme will be way superior to the Gypsy. It'll be superior to the cramped & bumpy Scorpio too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Just hope that they also induct a soft top Storme a la the soft top LR Defender used by many armies. It'll reduce the weight, make it more nimble and ready for desert ops.
Chopping the top off a vehicle that wasn't designed for it results in severely compromised structural strength. It's just not possible.
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Old 7th December 2016, 11:46   #44
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Moreover, it offers better 4wd (low) capabilities than Scorpio... it's primary competitor.
Would like to know, with numbers/facts as to how a Safari/Storme is better is 4L capabilities? Diff lock or not, if tested across same obstacle.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
This is debatable since both vehicles cleared the the trials. Tata offered a cheaper package to the Army.

See quote from Autocar report below.
[b]"Although both the Safari and the Scorpio passed rigorous technical trials by the army, which tested the vehicles in conditions such as high-altitude, snow, deserts and marshy land, Tata Group appears to have presented a better financial deal, the report added."
That clears it
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Old 7th December 2016, 12:00   #45
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Good news for all Safari lovers as it will definitely uplift the sales as well as image of vehicle in India.

Safari is definitely a much better overall car if compared with Gypsy but at the same time in off road ventures it can't be compared to Gypsy.

I feel the Safari will be used for general purpose which requires a comfortable strong built vehicle.

Last edited by GTO : 8th December 2016 at 10:40. Reason: Typo
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