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Old 8th December 2016, 00:28   #61
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Chopping the top off a vehicle that wasn't designed for it results in severely compromised structural strength. It's just not possible.
Ladder frame chassis?

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Old 8th December 2016, 05:16   #62
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

Why is everyone forgetting Sumo 4*4 which I believe has considerable number of vehicles in army service from a long time. I believe Storme if picked by army could be for a more softer application and leaving the hard core battle duties to be taken care by Sumo and Gypsy. Image courtesy http://www.defencesolutions-tatamotors.com
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Last edited by damodar : 8th December 2016 at 05:28.
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Old 8th December 2016, 09:04   #63
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
This is debatable since both vehicles cleared the the trials. Tata offered a cheaper package to the Army.

See quote from Autocar report below.
"Although both the Safari and the Scorpio passed rigorous technical trials by the army, which tested the vehicles in conditions such as high-altitude, snow, deserts and marshy land, Tata Group appears to have presented a better financial deal, the report added."
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...403693.aspxThe article also states that the "The version of Safari Storme for the army is quite different from the one available for civilians. The drivetrain has been upgraded and the suspension has been majorly modified to take care of off-road capabilities."
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Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
[*]Storme won the bid for order worth 3000+ vehicles. (overpowering MM Scorpio.)

Sorry to play spoil sport, but Safari didn't bag this tender on merit, rather than on lower price quoted by them.

Many comments appear to have similar sentiments completely missing this point.

Here is the link - http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...le-403693.aspx
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Old 8th December 2016, 09:32   #64
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Sorry to play spoil sport, but Safari didn't bag this tender on merit, rather than on lower price quoted by them.
Don't think this is entirely accurate. Safari (or rather the Storme) on its MERIT qualified and passed through all the expectations/tests. If it did not meet Army's requirements, it wouldn't even qualify. And honestly, pricing is a feature of a product. If pricing gets you a contract, its on your merit.
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Old 8th December 2016, 09:44   #65
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
And honestly, pricing is a feature of a product. If pricing gets you a contract, its on your merit.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Sorry to play spoil sport, but Safari didn't bag this tender on merit, rather than on lower price quoted by them.

Many comments appear to have similar sentiments completely missing this point.
Here is the link - http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...le-403693.aspx
I would just like to point out that the exact quote from the source article in ET says "However, the Tata Group appears to have presented a better financial deal to the army" (Autocar India used ET as the source).
Hardly a quote that indicates that merit had nothing to do with the Storme bagging the deal.
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Old 8th December 2016, 09:52   #66
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Sorry to play spoil sport, but Safari didn't bag this tender on merit, rather than on lower price quoted by them.

Here is the link - http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...le-403693.aspx
Quoting from the same link:

Quote:
Although both the Safari and the Scorpio passed rigorous technical trials by the army, which tested the vehicles in conditions such as high-altitude, snow, deserts and marshy land, Tata Group appears to have presented a better financial deal,
I guess this indicates that both vehicles qualified the criteria and then Safari won over Scorpio in terms of price.

Regular government tenders follow two-bid system of technical and financial bid where final award is on basis of whoever quotes lowest after passing the technical evaluation. I am purely guessing but Army might also be following similar approach. Maybe someone else can shed more light.

Last edited by ksameer1234 : 8th December 2016 at 09:54. Reason: typos
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Old 8th December 2016, 10:29   #67
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by Manan_02 View Post
This move of Indian Army just proves that TATA is no more considered as an "Unreliable Brand". If it had been a case, Indian Army would just not consider the Safari over Scorpio as they can't afford to deal with the issues of the car while they are on their duty. It is a much better option when compared to the Scorpio for sure.
Cheers to TATA
Well, I'd say those are two completely different aspects. It would be a little unwise to pick up the Storme with a simple rationale that if its reliable enough for the Army, then it suits my needs perfectly. We also have to consider the possibility that for the Stormes given for testing, extra effort might have been put to ensure nothing goes wrong while it goes through the paces. (For the lack of a better analogy, consider the scotch sold in canteens to the one outside, the difference in quality is perceptible).

And the Army cannot go by mere perception. The process would have been open for all, and any product able to meet the specifications and testing would be in reckoning.

I'm not suggesting that the Storme is unreliable, in fact it's a fantastic product that is vastly under-rated in our market at present. I suggest the Storme strongly to anyone in my circle looking for an SUV. But I wouldn't factor the fact that it's been selected by the Indian Army in my decision making unless I know for sure it's exactly the same that was tested.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this VFJ many here have mentioned?

Last edited by avisidhu : 8th December 2016 at 10:31.
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:28   #68
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Pardon my ignorance, but what is this VFJ many here have mentioned ?
It is the short form of 'Vehicle Factory Jabalpur' situated in the state of MP if I am not wrong.

They are the ones who are responsible to make/modify vehicles for the armed forces.
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Old 8th December 2016, 14:03   #69
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this VFJ many here have mentioned?
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Originally Posted by OSH View Post
It is the short form of 'Vehicle Factory Jabalpur' situated in the state of MP if I am not wrong.
VFJ is responsible for assembling truck (technology contracted by AL) named stallion.
They used to assemble Nissan 1 tons and Jonga (technology contracted by Nissan) in the past
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Old 8th December 2016, 14:05   #70
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by OSH View Post
They are the ones who are responsible to make/modify vehicles for the armed forces.
VFJ used to make the Jonga and Shaktiman. They don't modify any Mahindra/Maruti/Tata/Leyland vehicles. These are made to army spec directly at the respective plants.

They tried to launch a civilian version of the Jonga with a Hino engine, which for some reason didn't take off. My dad had booked one, but eventually they wrote to him saying that they cannot deliver and returned the booking amount. I think VFJ is pretty much defunct now.
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Old 8th December 2016, 14:25   #71
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

VFJ Stallion, posted by "Jimmyjosek" here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...-thread-6.html (The Indian Armed Forces...Army/Navy/Airforce Vehicle Thread)

Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!-img_4172.jpg
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Old 8th December 2016, 14:42   #72
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
In this backdrop, the Tata Safari that the Army will buy will have very different technical and body specifications, than those we see in day to day civilian use.
I doubt it. Apart from the standard attachments we all know and some minor underbody protection (which can ideally be done anywhere), GSVs are not modified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Sorry to play spoil sport, but Safari didn't bag this tender on merit, rather than on lower price quoted by them.

Many comments appear to have similar sentiments completely missing this point.
While no one has mentioned it, a lot of contracts are won because of pricing and other benefits and this is another such example.

Ganda hai par dhandha hai yeh...!!!

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I think VFJ is pretty much defunct now.
They aren't defunct but are limited to adding lights, crash guards, paint schemes, mount points, antennae and identification marks on the vehicles. They are in no position to technically improve/modify any vehicle.
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Old 8th December 2016, 15:05   #73
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
They don't modify any Mahindra/Maruti/Tata/Leyland vehicles. These are made to army spec directly at the respective plants.
Sorry for not being clear earlier, but when I said 'modify' I actually meant what senior TBhpian n.devdath has already posted. It was these small jobs like painting, accessories fitting etc that I was talking about.

Last edited by OSH : 8th December 2016 at 15:10.
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Old 8th December 2016, 15:26   #74
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
Don't think this is entirely accurate. Safari (or rather the Storme) on its MERIT qualified and passed through all the expectations/tests. If it did not meet Army's requirements, it wouldn't even qualify. And honestly, pricing is a feature of a product. If pricing gets you a contract, its on your merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
I guess this indicates that both vehicles qualified the criteria and then Safari won over Scorpio in terms of price.

Regular government tenders follow two-bid system of technical and financial bid where final award is on basis of whoever quotes lowest after passing the technical evaluation. I am purely guessing but Army might also be following similar approach. Maybe someone else can shed more light.
Precisely this is what I wanted to say in my post.

The best thing is, it was between Tata & Mahindra, our own homegrown SUV manufacturers.
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Old 8th December 2016, 19:39   #75
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Default Re: Indian Army's new official vehicle - the Tata Safari Storme!

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
The best thing is, it was between Tata & Mahindra, our own homegrown SUV manufacturers.
To further add to this, there isn't a lot of difference in their performance (not features or measurements) on the road and off it.

Hence, their test results would not have been too different and the deal would have boiled down to "other" factors.
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