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Old 2nd April 2008, 19:21   #181
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
There has been a lot of talk about how the 1.3L 90bhp MJD will be underpowered for the Linea.

Lets take a look at the specs compared to the Octavia.

Fiat Linea 1.3MJD: 90bhp @ 4000rpm , 200Nm@1750rpm , Kerb Weight: 1160-1185kgs. , 0-100kmph in 13.8 seconds , top speed: 170kmph

Source: Fiat Linea Specs

Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi: 90bhp@4000rpm , 210Nm@1900rpm , Kerb Weight: 1330kgs. , 0-100kmph in 13.2 seconds, top speed: 182kmph

Source: Skoda Octavia Specs.

Both cars are similarly powered but the Linea is a lot less lighter then the Octavia. Why are we jumping the gun and judging that the car will be underpowered even before any of us have even seen it?



Nice Info Amit !!! Few people told me that Dzire DDIS is a tad underpowered as in the FTD factor comes a lil later than the Hatchback. I guess because of that few people ( Including me) feel Linea 1.3 MJD 90 Bhp might be underpowered. Also in the BS motoring Bijoy also commented on Linea being a tad underpowered on highway . I just hope Fiat rectifies it !!! Dying to buy a Linea!!
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Old 2nd April 2008, 20:13   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
There has been a lot of talk about how the 1.3L 90bhp MJD will be underpowered for the Linea.

Lets take a look at the specs compared to the Octavia.

Fiat Linea 1.3MJD: 90bhp @ 4000rpm , 200Nm@1750rpm , Kerb Weight: 1160-1185kgs. , 0-100kmph in 13.8 seconds , top speed: 170kmph

Source: Fiat Linea Specs

Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi: 90bhp@4000rpm , 210Nm@1900rpm , Kerb Weight: 1330kgs. , 0-100kmph in 13.2 seconds, top speed: 182kmph

Source: Skoda Octavia Specs.

Both cars are similarly powered but the Linea is a lot less lighter then the Octavia. Why are we jumping the gun and judging that the car will be underpowered even before any of us have even seen it?
I drove Linea,it is an underpowered car.
1.3L is not enough for that car and too much turbo lag.It needs 1.9L engine.
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Old 2nd April 2008, 20:56   #183
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Amit,
The comparison specs between the Octy and the Linea sounds good on paper, however the real world scenario is a complex one with different factors like driving styles, engine tuning, gearbox etc. Also you have not mentioned that the Linea uses a VGT which boosts the power of the 1.3MJD engine from 75bhp to 90bhp, and also a slight increase in torque fiqures. Also an comparison of the in-gear acceleration between the Octy and the Linea will be essential to get the entire picture.

IMHO, you cannot ignore engine displacement figures of the Octy- to put simply we all know the thumb rule More cc= More power Ah, yes but engine design may make it possible in the case of Linea.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 10:49   #184
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It may be too prematured to write off linea as an underpowered car and reason for why it may not sell may actually have nothing to do with it being underpowered. We have plenty of cars selling in decent numbers despite being much less in term of power and torque- Indica, Indigo, Logan, Ford Fiesta D etc. Accent CRDi had 82 bhp power it sold very well and linea has respectable power even with 90 bhp engine IMO.

What may matter more is the marketing, after sales, FE and drvieability in normal driving conditions more so in cities. With its expected price range, it will be a good VFM.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 16:33   #185
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Originally Posted by shatrughna View Post

What may matter more is the marketing, after sales, FE and drvieability in normal driving conditions more so in cities.
And I don't think LineA doesn't possess the above said thingys in good measure either. Ain't it?

But as you said, it is a bit premature scenario to talk about it's success.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 16:43   #186
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Originally Posted by jerish666 View Post
I drove Linea,it is an underpowered car.
1.3L is not enough for that car and too much turbo lag.It needs 1.9L engine.
You drove it abroad where lack of power due to turbo lag can be felt. But for Indian road conditions, the power maybe adequate.

Also, like others have said, a lot of underpowered cars are selling very easily in India like the NHC, Ford Fiesta D to name a few so I don't think Linea should have too much of a problem selling well here.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 17:02   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
You drove it abroad where lack of power due to turbo lag can be felt. But for Indian road conditions, the power maybe adequate.

Also, like others have said, a lot of underpowered cars are selling very easily in India like the NHC, Ford Fiesta D to name a few so I don't think Linea should have too much of a problem selling well here.
Amit it is an underpowered car for sure.If Linea will be here in India roads it will be more difficult to drive in the city due to the turbo lag.
When i TD i drove the car in the city.I am not simply telling you all Linea is an underpowered car.
When they introduce Linea in India there wont be any difficulties to sell that car because it is a well build car with lot of features.Trubo lag doesnt mean that car will face difficulty to sell.Linea is a brilliant car.

Last edited by jerish666 : 3rd April 2008 at 17:11.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 17:06   #188
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Originally Posted by jerish666 View Post
Amit it is an underpowered car for sure.If Linea will be here in India roads it will be more difficult to drive in the city due to the lack of turbo lag.
Lack of turbo lag is good na?

Ok ok i know what you meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Also, like others have said, a lot of underpowered cars are selling very easily in India like the NHC, Ford Fiesta D to name a few so I don't think Linea should have too much of a problem selling well here.
There is a difference though. The cars you mentioned have decent low end torque, which makes them easy for city driving. Fiesta D has negligible Turbo lag, and one never feels out of power as long as in city limits.

Last edited by DCEite : 3rd April 2008 at 17:15.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 17:19   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerish666 View Post
Amit it is an underpowered car for sure.If Linea will be here in India roads it will be more difficult to drive in the city due to the lack of turbo lag.
I havent found any reviews online complaining about the car being underpowered though there is some mention about turbo not kicking in below 2000 rpm. Here's what Autocar has to say : :: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE ::

Quote:
Power now is an impressive Skoda Octavia-matching 90bhp and torque a huge 20kgm too, incredible for a 1248cc motor. In reality, however, there is some turbo lag. The turbo takes a while to produce boost below 2000rpm, and this means you need to be in a lower gear to avoid being bogged down in the ebb and flow of everyday traffic. It is possible to amble along comfortably, but passing other cars at this engine speed is difficult.

However, once the boost comes in above 2000rpm, the Linea feels like a different car altogether.
So yes, you will probably end up in 2nd gear within the city more often than an Octi 1.9TDI. But thats not bad for an engine with more than half a litre less cubic capacity.

CC isnt always the correct way to judge engine performance these days. Look at the Mitsubishi EVO series - 2 litre engines producing massive amount of power.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 17:44   #190
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
CC isnt always the correct way to judge engine performance these days. Look at the Mitsubishi EVO series - 2 litre engines producing massive amount of power.
The EVO engine do produce BHP's matching much bigger engines but there are disadvantages too:
1) The service intervals are much smaller. The 400 BHP version of the EVO requires service every 5000 miles which is in excess of 15000 miles for lot of other cars.
2) You have to keep the engine on boil to get any sort of acceleration which lowers the efficiency.
3) The dreaded turbo lag, I remeber the topgear episode where the 400 bhp EVO was beaten by a 1.6 litre Fiat in in-gear acceleration.
4) A smaller engine producing the same amount of power as a bigger engine would be doing it running at the limit, certainly not as effortlessly as the bigger engine for sure, whicn I think would affect the long term reliability.
5) Also wear and tear with age will hurt the performance of a smaller engine much more than it does to the bigger engine with same power and torque ratings.

If cc indeed isnt relevant these days do you think the on paper better FIAT 1.3 engine would be able to lug the load a 3.0 Litre 207 engine lugs. Not for nothing they say "There is no substitute for cubic capacity". Besides the mere idea of a 1.3 litre engine in such a big car would put off most people who dont know what power and bhp figures are but for CC.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 3rd April 2008 at 17:47.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 17:48   #191
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
I havent found any reviews online complaining about the car being underpowered though there is some mention about turbo not kicking in below 2000 rpm. Here's what Autocar has to say : :: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE ::

CC isnt always the correct way to judge engine performance these days. Look at the Mitsubishi EVO series - 2 litre engines producing massive amount of power.
we have 3.5 litre engine -270 bhp - in Accord V6. we laso have MHawk- VLX scorpio- 2.2 litre - 120 bhp
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Old 3rd April 2008, 18:03   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The EVO engine do produce BHP's matching much bigger engines but there are disadvantages too:
I agree its a compromise - to make the car a lot cheaper than a comparable bigger engined car. In this case, I expect Linea to be a lot cheaper than Skoda models - Octi and Laura and the Toyota Corolla. This compromise is necessary to keep the price down.

Getting the Linea with 1.9MJD will be a tall ask. They need to set up an engine plant just for that model. I dont think you will find many buyers for the Grande Punto or Palios with 1.9MJD. Unless, of course, Tata decides to plonk the 1.9MJD on some of their models like the Safari X
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Old 3rd April 2008, 18:09   #193
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when is Linea coming to India? I am looking to buy a sedan under 10L and really tired of waiting for Linea!
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Old 3rd April 2008, 18:32   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Getting the Linea with 1.9MJD will be a tall ask. They need to set up an engine plant just for that model. I dont think you will find many buyers for the Grande Punto or Palios with 1.9MJD. Unless, of course, Tata decides to plonk the 1.9MJD on some of their models like the Safari X
As far as I know, the 1.9 MJD uses the same engine block as that of the erstwhile Palio 1.9 D. So, that part is solved, because if I remember correctly, Fiat was manufacturing 1.9D in India itself. Fiat needs to import other components and assemble the engine here. Not that difficult a task as it is made out to be, in my opinion! But, whether the volumes justify such an effort is the big question mark... But, in my opinion, either the 1.6 or 1.9 MJD will be a good fit in this car, simply because you can easily get more torque out of these engines and that is what really matters in a diesel car.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 18:33   #195
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
when is Linea coming to India? I am looking to buy a sedan under 10L and really tired of waiting for Linea!

Just Hoping they launch it around July '08. Stick to the Linea !!!
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