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Old 11th January 2017, 14:40   #31
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Somehow, both American car makers are not dominating our market. Both Ford and GM have struggled in India. Ford hasn't struggled as much as GM.

There is a big difference between Ford in India and GM in India. When Ford learnt that it is tough to compete here, it took a lesson out of Hyundai's success story. Same did Nissan. They understood that the market is price sensitive and to survive, they need large volumes. At the same time market is equally important to be focused and differentiated. In sub 2 to 4% share of market, they can not beat the costs of "The big two" of Indian market. So Ford and Nissan too, mimicked Hyundai's strategy.

Similar to Hyundai, Ford and Nissan aggregated similar markets and started shipping same products to varied markets which are similar to India - ASEAN, South Africa & Middle east (but Made in India). Unfortunate GM isn't doing anything like this. Like I and several forum members pointed out, GM doesn't have a clear plan.

Karl Slym's leadership is deeply missed. :-(
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Old 11th January 2017, 14:43   #32
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
- After Optra and Optra Magnum, the company didn't launch any new product in the sedan segment.
They got the fairly successful Cruze after the Optra.

I still have my 2004 optra 1.6 and it still feels good. The design is beautiful and its so comfortable.

What they are doing to themselves is sad!
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Old 11th January 2017, 14:46   #33
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

As a former GM Opel Astra owner the title of this thread saddens me. I owned the 1997 Opel Astra 1.6 Petrol(second gen improved NZR engine variant) for close to 8 years till I got it scrapped right in front of my eyes in 2012. I didn't want to give it away to anybody hence destroyed it.

Well I became furious when GM decided to pull a plug on Opel in India and launch Chevrolet err... not the American but South Korean rebadged Daewoo's. Not that GM didn't screw up Opel they in fact did. They were very slow and like a typical government bureau sat selling older generation cars which were unexciting. Opel had so many models in East Europe, Russia and Latin America (comparable to Indian economy) but GM India in all its sense didn't launch them here in India. All they did was rebadge the Daewoo Nubira as Chevrolet Optra and sell it here. This continued for their other models as well which they acquired from Daewoo. I am not saying those models from Daewoo were bad but being laid back and doing nothing while seeing the sales dip certainly was.

If GM doesn't do anything, soon they will have to exit our market.
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Old 11th January 2017, 14:53   #34
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

I have heard from credible sources that GM India celebrates/ has parties when they sell more that 2500 units since that is termed as good performance. Also their incentives/bonus is based on a weightage, 80% of global sales and 20% of India sales. That way their incentives are generally never hampered. The downside being their employees are least bothered about their performance.
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Old 11th January 2017, 15:26   #35
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

This is a shame. Back in the US in 2003, I was driving a used Chevy Geo Prism. Oh boy what a lovely car. In 2008, I purchased the Spark in India and thoroughly enjoyed the Spark for 5 years without any serious problems. It was a mighty little car with amazing road behavior.

GM never updated their portfolio. They should just exit. They are not at all serious about the Indian market !!!
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Old 11th January 2017, 16:11   #36
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by abhinavsureka View Post
They got the fairly successful Cruze after the Optra.

I still have my 2004 optra 1.6 and it still feels good. The design is beautiful and its so comfortable.

What they are doing to themselves is sad!
I think that Optra was more of a competitor to City, Verna, and Ciaz; while Cruze is a competitor to Corolla, Elantra, and Octavia. They could have launched an Optra replacement at 10 lakhs while Cruze would have been in an upper segment, like Hyundai does it with Verna and Elantra.
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Old 11th January 2017, 17:01   #37
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

GM first needs to throw out all the dull Chinese platform vehicles from it's assembly line.

After that, they should launch the next gen beat as soon as possible, as an entry level hatch.
And then, they could re-introduce the Corsa as a premium hatch.
Post that, they could re-introduce the astra sedan as a premium C2 sedan.
Finally, They should introduce the 'competent' and 'handsome' Insignia as their flagship car.
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Old 11th January 2017, 17:06   #38
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

The biggest mistake GM committed was killing its very strong brand in India - Opel. They came to India with Opel Astra which was a very good card from GM stable. But I guess the hate of "Allied forces" must have lead to killing the friendly "Wehrmacht". I still remember, in late 1990s, Opel was introduced in the Indian market and was a very good competitor to Cielo & Maruti Esteem. And Opel Astra was selling good. Even in Germany Opel Astras are large in production. This would have helped GM plan their production, sales, service & spare parts very well. They started introducing other GM brands and vehicles which are very poor in quality. I know a person who has a Optra with a cracked B pillar without any accident.

Last edited by GTO : 12th January 2017 at 10:00. Reason: Language
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Old 11th January 2017, 18:25   #39
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

Big american companies with big pockets. Just digressing from the topic, talking of another american biggie in IT. Seen them to mess up big time and then there is no going back. Americans bring some good products when the markets does not have any mindset for them. Long time back, somewhere in 2003, there was a gadget with the name of Ipaq. this device had the capability of synchronising mails, calendars, appointments, contacts, net surfing etc which we see in today's worlds androids and apples. Market was not ready for it. Then the said company killed that product. Sometime back this same company came back with it's voice-tabs and Slates. These were nothing but poor Chinese products. These were super flops in the market. With its attitude of turning a blind eye towards mobility, not sure how long does this IT company will float around.

Coming to Automobiles, Around same time-2002/3, GM had Astra and corsa for which the market was not ready. Fast-forward to 2017, when we read this report of mounting losses for GM, i can very well co-relate the scenarios. GM had some very good products in its portfolio till 2010. They had the following.
  1. Tavera- This was a very well rounded product but with various emission norms scandals and some uninspiring engines which were not very good to drive. GM could have tried pitching it against Toyota & others
  2. Optra-This product was a real luxury inside and could have very well competed with Hyundai Elantra and likes with some mild face-lifts and modifications. The engine options were great. if i am not wrong, current day cruse also has similar engine
  3. Aveo- This was a great looking product(especially on the inside) with some very under-powered engine. They could have fitted it with 90BHP Fiat-Multijet engine and some minor tweaks could have given this product a great market
  4. Uva- This was a car with extremely good space inside. this car badly needed some upgrade. They could have upgraded it to compete with Swift
  5. Spark- Could have been fitted with a 3 cylinder, 1 litre multijet engine(currently doing duty in Beat). This car was great on space and very cute looks. This could have given the A segment cars a run for their money. But alas, this was left to die with degraded features and a very unexciting non-fuel efficient(my honda city drinks less) engine

Then GM went ahead and killed all these cars and to put a last nail in the coffin, they brought some duds from china market as a replacement for american stuff. Dealers shutting down their shops/moving to some other brand every now and then was another confidence killer for the end customer. As per some very senior executive, personally known to me from GM, he says, what more do we expect from a company with someone at the helm of affairs who is just planning his retirement. He may have been a big-shot at the peak of his career. The sales guys are typical "sarkari" type attitude and they just show some excel sheet and management is very happy seeing them. No GTM-"go to market" attitude is another killer. The sales guys reach office daily and after their initial round of meeting, go back their homes and simply sleep. They getup in the evening and reach the nearest dealership and collect the footfall numbers from the reception and move out. Sometimes just a phone-call does the work for them. In case some enthusiastic executive joins the company, he is forced into creeping into the shell created by others. The service guys are other bunch of corpses floating in GM. They try not giving a solution for any problem that customer quotes. At the best, they will entertain only those customers who are personally known to them or have some very high contacts. The Chevrolet promise package(0 service charge for 3 year type) given to the customers covers just oil change and washing cleaning. Minimal service like brake calipers greasing etc is not done. After 3 years, when there is some servicing required for the brakes, they simply say that this is not disclosed to the customers as for 3 years they do not receive anything from the company. Even the basic accessories that fit can be sold along with new vehicles are not shown to the customers. Or the rates quoted are so exorbitant that one can get those at 20% of the price quoted by dealership.

Keeping all these above scenarios in mind, i am sure that GM is just waiting for the curtains to fall on India operations.

Last edited by Mpower : 16th January 2017 at 21:09.
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Old 11th January 2017, 19:00   #40
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Old 11th January 2017, 19:47   #41
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

Sad to read this thread. My 6 1/2 year Cruze LT is soldiering on at 90k with second set of tyres, clutch, timing belt and battery, and third set of brake pads. Brake discs are still OEM, flywheel & front shocks were changed under warranty.

Interiors have not aged AT ALL except for fraying of the gear lever cover (expected) and AC duct knobs (expected) and the driver's seat fabric has marginally frayed (highly expected) at the bolster seams but that is all!

The engine is till rock solid and I get a consistent mileage of around 11.5. The suspension needs to be re-torqued and maybe rear shocks changed as they may have lost their rebound quotient.

I am keeping the car for a few more years unless GM completely folds up :-(. Anyway resale value is pathetic, and likely to get even more so.

I hope GM soldiers on! With SAIC the dominant shareholder I don't think GM US has a huge say any more in GM India.
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Old 11th January 2017, 19:50   #42
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

Having seen GM cars and their logos in scores of US TV series and the famous Opel Astra car which was presented to the man of the tournament Sachin Tendulkar during the 1997 series in Sharjah, I am shattered at the numbers of GM and their lack of understanding of Indian market. Either they treated us as novices in cars or they had flawed ideology with India

They could have made a killing having presented this car to the legend
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Last edited by Mpower : 12th January 2017 at 08:03.
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Old 11th January 2017, 20:14   #43
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Default GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

The Opel Astra was one awesome car. Though a little under powered, it was way ahead if it's time in India. The diesel Astra just made things worse. The cost of ownership was way to high. I remember my uncle had one and it was just awesome to drive. A rear quarter glass cost 12 k way back in 1997.

Sad to see GM going through this rut. Indian market is a big leveller. Honda realised the hard way, having to break their resilience of not bringing a diesel. India is all about volumes, value for money and a great ASS network. Unless these companies invest in the service network nothing is going to work. Kudos to Renault for the way the Duster worked and now the Kwid, though their ASS is no where near the mark of a Maruti or a Hyundai, it's all in the perceived value.

Last edited by Arjun Reddy : 11th January 2017 at 20:16.
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Old 11th January 2017, 20:50   #44
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
I hope GM soldiers on! With SAIC the dominant shareholder I don't think GM US has a huge say any more in GM India.
Not really. As of 2012, GM owns 93% of GM India, the remaining by SAIC.

The following article, if correct, talks about GM's history in India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_India
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:27   #45
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

This is very sad and disappointing. Sad for their employees (I believe around 3000 to 4000) and disappointed with GM global management for their lack of direction and strategy. Those 4000 employees mean about 8000 children dependent on this company's continued solvency. Our country is a difficult place to do business in. Every foreign investor who closes down re-inforces this view amongst other potential investors.GM had some great products. We owned an Astra for 6 years and a Corsa for 10. Lets hope for better days for them

Last edited by V.Narayan : 11th January 2017 at 21:30.
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