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Old 12th January 2017, 00:34   #46
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by speed kills View Post
Chevy need to Sail away from the Spark in order to Beat the heat. For them to Enjoy this Cruze, they need to Captivate the Indian buyer.

Moral of the story: Get back to the drawing board, it's never too late.
I had said this on the 9th of May 2014.

Today is the 12th of January, 2017. Guess Chevrolet is still searching for the "Drawing Board".

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 15th January 2017 at 11:50. Reason: Quoting your original post. :)
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Old 12th January 2017, 02:26   #47
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

They deserve this. I don't know till when they will give the step motherly treatment to India. They have so many products and brands in their kitty that will simply do wonders if launched in India. But they choose to facelift a product which already has a replacement worldwide. They launch Enjoy which is nothing but enjoyable. And then the sail twins. I got an offer from the dealer, a friend of mine offering over 25% discount on a brand new vehicle - Yes. It was the sail. I think they would soon exit the market. I wish they get to read all that we write here and do hafl the things that we suggest and wish they do. They would have 10% market share within a year.

Last edited by GTO : 12th January 2017 at 10:03. Reason: Language
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Old 12th January 2017, 07:05   #48
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Among other things, the Malibu isn't produced in RHD. Hence, it cannot be sold in India.
Looks like they can, as they sell Malibu in Australia. And not just Malibu, their AU line up is pretty drool worthy, barring the Spark/Beat off course.

Holden (GM) Australia looks far more upmarket, refined and competitive than Indian Chevy. Top 5 in market share, just behind Toyota, almost up there with Hyundai, Mazda and Ford while beating the likes of Honda, VW and Nissan. Methinks, probably this is real GM, with that American DNA (just look at that Ute) unlike the chinese cross-breed that we see in India.
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Old 12th January 2017, 10:12   #49
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

GM India pretty much deserves this sad state of affairs that they are suffering from. I was in the market for an AT sedan in December 2016, my shortlisted cars did not include any car from the Chevy stable (even though i had a a very good experience with the Chevy Spark & Cruze owned by dad in the past).

A family member working for GM USA motivated me to get the Chevy Cruze with some very good GM family discounts (which were btw to the tune of Rs. 2 Lakhs over and above any other schemes that were currently running).

Such is the poor state of GM India that they were simply unwilling to bring in one of the oldest D segment sedans in India which has been doing terrible numbers off late even for a test drive, let alone the pricing and offers part. I was not given a TD car till i wrote to GM USA

In comparison, Hyundai brought in there hot selling Creta within a day, MS there Ciaz in a few hours and Honda there ever reliable City within half an hour !!

If a customer has to go through this ordeal before buying a car which is priced north of 1.5 millions then, i dread being in the shoes of the customer who has already bought one.

I am totally not surprised, at the same time, i would pray someone up there in GM India does manage to go through this thread / news soon before its too late !!
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Old 12th January 2017, 10:19   #50
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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GTO, just curious. Cant it be retooled for RHD?
India, Japan, UK, Australia, Thailand & Malaysia (to a lesser extent) are the only significant RHD markets. A product would need to have a sure-shot chance at success for a RHD conversion. I don't think there's any point in bringing the Malibu here.

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Regulations say that every OEM must provide all the spares till 15 years from the date of sale, but does not specify the lead time for the same.
IIRC, it is 10 years from the time that the model is discontinued. Also, it isn't the regulation - rather, something that the SIAM / auto industry mutually agreed to.

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That said, Beat is a wonderful vehicle that has served well over past 6 years without any niggle of its own. It's sad to see such a situation.
I agree. For its time, the Beat was a lovely hatchback.

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
How about they update FOUR cars in India?
Good point - keep it simple, GM. There's no problem in the auto industry that a good car can't solve. Just ask Renault (Duster first, then the Kwid).

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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Well I became furious when GM decided to pull a plug on Opel in India and launch Chevrolet err... not the American but South Korean rebadged Daewoo's.
Beautiful car, the Astra was. That said, I think that cars developed by GM-Daewoo in Korea are more relevant to India. The Beat, Optra, Cruze, Spark etc. were all nice cars at the time of their original launch. Well priced & reliable too.

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Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
I have heard from credible sources that GM India celebrates/ has parties when they sell more that 2500 units since that is termed as good performance.
Hahaha! So, they have nice parties and fancy new offices (link (General Motors' cool new office at Gurgaon)), but what they don't have is sheer commitment & sales .

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Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
The Opel Astra was one awesome car. Though a little under powered, it was way ahead if it's time in India. The diesel Astra just made things worse. The cost of ownership was way to high. I remember my uncle had one and it was just awesome to drive. A rear quarter glass cost 12 k way back in 1997.
Yeah, the cost of ownership was crazy. Plus, it was a lot more complex than the City & Lancer which ruled the 9 - 10 lakh segment at the time.

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Originally Posted by abhi29 View Post
Looks like they can, as they sell Malibu in Australia.
I think that's still the old last-gen Malibu they're selling in Australia. The current gen isn't yet converted to RHD.
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Old 12th January 2017, 10:53   #51
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

It is near impossible for a brand as big and mighty as GM, to enter into troubled waters in India. This is particularly when G.M is a co-developer of the National Engine of India (read the 1.3 MJD) and holds considerable royalty rights on the same. It is not that GM needs to survive on the royalties alone as they had introduced several wonderful cars which were accepted by the market in the past such as Beat, Cruz, Captiva, U-VA, Tavera, et al. Even the cars launched under OPEL brand such as Astra and acquisitions from Daewoo such as Matiz (rebadged as Spark) or the Nubira (rebadged as Optra) were quite successful and helped build a good repute in the minds of an Indian Customer. It is the manufacturer’s lack of interest in the Indian market, that no better offerings were introduced later. In fact, G.M brought in a mediocre replacement (Sail Sedan) to an existing car of respectful image (Optra), which eventually drove buyers away. The existing line up consist decade old cars which no more excite the masses. So in effect, GM gets the taste of its own pill.


A better way out in my humble opinion would be to phase out the Chevrolet brand and either reintroduce OPEL or bring in Buick, Vauxhall or Cadillac instead.


On another note: It seems the 1.3 MJD has brought better fortunes to its buyer (MSIL) and bad omen to its parents viz., FIAT and GM, in India.

Last edited by King_pin09 : 12th January 2017 at 10:57.
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Old 12th January 2017, 10:59   #52
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

When I was looking to replace my 5 year old Optra magnum, I desperately wanted to buy another car matching the 2 liter TDCI engine performance and had only Chevy in my mind. There were many options out in the market and only Cruze was fitting into my budget. But somehow the back seat leg space and the trend of Chevy showrooms shutting down in large numbers across India was a deal breaker, including my regular dealer cum ASS which I was very comfortable.
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Old 12th January 2017, 11:10   #53
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

When the top brass of GM said the next gen beat is only for 'developed markets'and chose to launch the barely facelifted version here, I was thinking they are 'deliberately planning' to exit India. Just check the new beat and what you get for the 8 lacs on road (bangalore) and you will know what I am talking about. The car looks so dated with bare minimum features. Its an abberation in the age of Grandi10s and Balenos.

May be its a good time for GM to consider exiting gracefully. They don't seem to need us and we don't seem to need them.
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Old 12th January 2017, 11:35   #54
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

This news is really worrying. I had bought the 2016 face-lift "all new" cruze in march 2016 and only yesterday saw the offer for Cruze LTZ MT - a whopping 2.55 Lakh rupee discount

I was wondering, scratching my head and banging it against the wall for buying an " all new" facelift car just to realise that 9 months down the road they offer such a high discount. It seems clear that GM India is planning on closing shop. I do not believe that they have the guts or the inclination to do a total revamp.
It is such a shame because though cruze has aged, at it's price point it offers power, safety and comfort beyond compare.
NCAP rating for Cruze is actually higher than Jetta, Altis or Fluence and still despite low price, it doesn't sell. Oh well. C'est la vie.
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Old 12th January 2017, 12:24   #55
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

What does GM Inda sell today? The Beat, Sail, Enjoy, Tavera, Cruze and the Trail Blazer. There is only one car is this list that can be called a true Chevrolet and that is the Cruze. I'll admit, the Beat is a Chevy too but I just don't see it like one, not even with a Transformer outfit.

The GM that I know well goes back to the days of the Opel Astra, Corsa, Vectra and SR-V. None of these cars took off but they were ahead of the competition when it comes to toys and in my opinion, had the most well done interiors when compared their prime competitors. In this list, the Corsa is the one I am most familiar with. Having driven the car a couple of times between Pune and Bangalore, boy oh boy, did it have amazing road manners. It was well built and felt solid. Reliability was a hit or miss. The car I drove never fell apart but most of them did. The Vectra was so complicated that if you did run in to a electronics related problem, the mechanics would pop the hood and just stare at the engine bay. They were clueless. GM were not supportive either. Responses were very slow from the head office.

A little over a decade later, we have only one car from GM that is a real Chevrolet and that is the Cruze. Say what you want, the Trail Blazer ain't a Chevrolet. Not to me. While they can't be compared, I find the last iteration of the Captiva more modern.

The Cruze is a missile but the interiors are a huge let down. Interior Quality ain't great and passenger room is poor for a car so big. The Detroit diesel is a hit or miss when it comes to reliability. I remember accompanying FM Bluu to check out the Cruze. The only thing we liked about the car were the front seats. He finally picked up the Suzuki Kizashi. The 2.4l is a gas guzzling engine but was the least of his problems. What was more important was that he had Maruti Suzuki for support. When Maruti threw in a 5 lac discount, it was a no brainer.

GM have a pretty big office at an IT Park I used to work. Guess what, I still see them fiddling with a laptop plugged in to the ECU of a Tavera. What are they still doing with such an old people mover? Time to move on.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 12th January 2017 at 12:35.
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Old 12th January 2017, 17:48   #56
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Revenues of Rs. 2,500 Crores and net loss of Rs. 1,000 crores makes me sad, since GM India is an automobile company.

But Revenues/Net Loss numbers of Snapdeal, Flipkart, PayTM and Amazon India makes me go LOL!
Well yes both are totally different industries and have different entry and exit barriers. Online e-comm business model is such that they work on meagre gross margins and focus on economies of scale. Amazon since its inception got profitable for the first time only after 10-15 years and that too when it didnt have a solid competitor. Their business model is such that they keep on giving discounts, that increases their revenue YOY, which leads to better valuations which in-turn attracts investors to put in the money. Now they repeat the above mentioned steps by distributing a good amount of the investors' money in form of discounts and this bubble keeps on getting bigger. The day the investors give a cold shoulder the bubble bursts and the company shuts/indulges in cost-cutting.

But car manufacturers depend on gross margins, until its not Maruti that also enjoys good level of economies of scale in India. Some car manufacturers have benefitted largely by exporting to other markets.
I guess barring 4-5 car manufacturers, including Fiat all others are facing big fat losses right now.

2014 stats:

Biggest Profit makers:

1) Maruti 2,783 crores
2) Hyundai 1108 crores
3) Volkswagen/Nissan: 420/410 crores (Thanks to exports)
4) Fiat: 216 crores (Thanks to MJDs )

Biggest Loss makers:

1) GM 3812 crores
2) Ford 597 crores
3) Honda 479 crores
4) Toyota 62.9 crores

GM was topping the list with great margin even in 2014.

Source: https://www.rushlane.com/profit-loss...-12137447.html
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Old 13th January 2017, 03:19   #57
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

I disagree that this sad state of GM India is because of their lack of planning and is the end of the road for Chevy here. The wonderful recovery of Opel in Europe is an example of what a company can do with strong products in a cut throat market. It looks like India is currently not on the priority list of GM.

Comparing the strategy of rebound with Renault is not appropriate because India is to Renault now, what China was to GM few years ago.

I would assume that the electrical/autonomous revolution caught them off-guard, so they had to compromise on certain markets to ensure their staple markets are stable and divert investments to catch up with the other incumbents. Lets hope that our market slowly becomes a crucial ground they cannot afford to miss out on. My optimism is based on the fact that they haven't pulled the plug yet in spite of total decline of sales.
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Old 13th January 2017, 13:47   #58
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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Originally Posted by speed kills View Post
"Chevy need to Sail away from the Spark in order to Beat the heat. For them to Enjoy this Cruze, they need to Captivate the Indian buyer.

Moral of the story: Get back to the drawing board, it's never too late."


I had said this on the 9th of May 2014.

Today is the 12th of January, 2017. Guess Chevrolet is still searching for the "Drawing Board"
They have constituted a Board meeting to figure out the board. There are varied opinions on what the board should look like, will non-Americans like it, should Staples be considered for partnership, should GM buy a board company and then in-source it's board building business altogether etc.

Please wait till the 2018 meeting for the Board to find the board. Agenda for the 2018 Board meeting - what pens will fit the board.
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Old 13th January 2017, 15:31   #59
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

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4) Fiat: 216 crores (Thanks to MJDs )
I guess its a matter of time before MJD's become obsolete unless they device a strategy to keep the old mill running! Fiat cars still have an emotional connect to the fewer fanboys who are still yearning for them unlike Chevy who failed there miserably....Its a sad fact that the masses are overlooking some good (maybe even better) cars for volume driven manufacturers owing to the "peace of mind" factor..The "Chevy service guarantee" still did not sell

I loved the Optra and Astra! Infact still in love with them them for some excellent driven memories when I had them.

They need to grow up with the mass market expectations/technologies just to stay afloat in the market.
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Old 13th January 2017, 19:17   #60
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Default Re: GM India: 2015-16 losses are FOUR times its net worth

I guess there is a bit of hope for GM yet. The Beat is now coming into the Taxi market. I have seen a few Uber/Ola Beats and at a signal a normal kaali peeli was asking me how the car is as it has recently come into the taxi market. Not sure what to make of this news
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