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Old 15th January 2017, 17:16   #31
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Default re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Unfortunately that is the world we live in. Some statements cannot be made in public even if factually correct because it is offensive to certain groups.

I'm surprised that none of the social justice warriors here have taken up the case of the elderly here. Discrimination by sex appears to be a hot topic. Age, perhaps not as much.
Sexism in India maybe a known fact and most in India may be sexist. That doesnt mean a multinational company, which caters to people of all colors, gender and age, has to approve of it(?) (or make it look as if they condone it).

I dont know why you think people who oppose the tweet are SJWs. Isnt that the right thing to do? Also just because someone pointed out only the sexist aspect and not the ageism, doesnt mean that they dont care about it. Maybe someone else can point the ageism in the tweet.

Also, age and capabilities (including driving) has a correlation. But gender and driving, not so much.

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Originally Posted by Ruchitya View Post
Have people lost their ability to understand english, or do they have nothing else to get offended about? Yes, PR should avoid controversy. But what they have asked is a fact on our roads. My female family members have more than once mentioned either over-taking or rash maneuvers by fellow road users, once they see it is a woman at the wheels. That's all the poll is asking. What sort of reaction is usually seen when either a woman/elderly/learner is at the wheel. It doesn't categorise women as learners. It just asks what is the action usually seen when a woman is at the wheel.
And the word 'or' is used because 'and' would imply all three conditions to be true. Seriously, get something real to be offended about.
You are not getting the point. Whom are they asking this question? Men or women? If they are asking this to both men and women, then why exclude men from the scenario? Because women may act differently when another woman is driving in front of them compared to a man driving in front of them.

It is a PR goof up, a sexist one at that.

Last edited by deerhunter : 15th January 2017 at 17:28.
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Old 15th January 2017, 17:23   #32
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Have people lost their ability to understand english, or do they have nothing else to get offended about? Yes, PR should avoid controversy. But what they have asked is a fact on our roads. My female family members have more than once mentioned either over-taking or rash maneuvers by fellow road users, once they see it is a woman at the wheels. That's all the poll is asking. What sort of REACTION is usually seen when either a woman/elderly/learner is at the wheel.
The tweet doesn't categorise women as learners. It just asks what is the reaction usually seen when a woman is at the wheel. Nothing is said about the woman/elderly/learner, it is instead directed at other users of the road.
And the word 'or' is used because 'and' would imply all three conditions to be true. Seriously, get something real to be offended about.

Last edited by Ruchitya : 15th January 2017 at 17:37.
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Old 15th January 2017, 18:02   #33
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Default re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

I find this a little stupid. When driving, I see a vehicle in front of me. Assuming the poll is about cars, we see a slow vehicle in front of us, start honking and when we get a chance, overtake. It's only when passing the other car that we can confirm what specific type of driver is there in that car. Any sexism / ageism will come after the overtaking is done. Once the overtaking is done, most times we are on our way. If some one behaves in an impolite way after finding that the driver is a woman - then it's a different point. But this too should/would be only in a small % of cases.

Due to head-restraints, it is only sometimes that we can actually make out that the driver is a woman.

But the focus remains most times on the traffic than on who the driver is. Esp in cases like these, since in today's traffic one would be checking the traffic to find opportunities to overtake than being curious about the driver.

The poll should not even have been put out for response.
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Old 15th January 2017, 18:16   #34
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Default re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

The poll question could have asked how do people react when stuck behind a slow vehicle. Instead, they make a statement that says women, elderly and people learning to drive are similar kind of drivers.

They are literally equating women drivers (of any age) to people who are learning to drive, and elderly. How is this not sexist?

There is also the offense of ageism, of comparing elderly to newbie drivers.
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Old 15th January 2017, 18:58   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The poll question could have asked how do people react when stuck behind a slow vehicle. Instead, they make a statement that says women, elderly and people learning to drive are similar kind of drivers.

They are literally equating women drivers (of any age) to people who are learning to drive, and elderly. How is this not sexist?

There is also the offense of ageism, of comparing elderly to newbie drivers.

This would have been ideal in my opinion. I think the person responsible must have got stuck behind one of them. 😊

I on one hand try to be a bit polite to a female driver learning to drive so that she does not get discouraged by my act and encourage my wife to go to driving school by showing good female drivers.

My father is 72 and still drives perfectly with utmost precision. I never went to a driving school and have learned all by just watching him drive.
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Old 15th January 2017, 21:20   #36
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Default re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

Oh boy Ford sure did a public boo boo on this one!

The wordings could have been better, and avoided reference to gender and age for sure, infact they can even now correct it and make it just slow drivers. This is from a pure PR angle of a multinational company.

As a woman especially from an urban class and in this era, one would definitely take serious offense. When everyone is talking about being equal and more, such a remark from a progressive multinational company would be boo'ed upon by other folks who have even a single drop of feminism in them. Reference to elderly folks mostly would be taken up by the likes of Arnab G in his new loud speaker channel.

Now there is an angle of realist who live and drive in the same urban jungle, and it is not surprising to see that there are more and more empowered women and middle class folks who can now afford a four wheeler. Now their driving, rather the way in which driving is taught in our country and the whole licensing system being so messed up, has resulted in not so good driving etiquette being displayed on roads. This cannot be again generalised into an aged or women phenomenon; whereas one might churn out few explicits and move on with a guy at the wheel, seeing an elderly person or woman one tends to take alternative approaches to handle the situation.

Is this tweet a big deal? Depends on perspective from person to person, including some super confident women who would care less for such silly mistakes in social media and would rather focus on real issues they face in real life. Pretty sure aged folks would choose not to even respond also, since they are more used to such stereotype remarks and they know very well how to deal with it.

In short it is a PR mistake that should be corrected, upto all of us if we need to discuss it to death and bring out all the hidden social issues that we have in our country through TeamBHP and fix it for once and for all, again like Mr Arnab does everyday. OR realise that even most of us would have displayed such a reaction and be more conscious to correct it as much as possible.

ps: I voted option 2 on the twitter poll.
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Old 16th January 2017, 00:26   #37
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They didn't frame the question mentioning slow drivers but highlighted three class of drivers shows what they intended. Slow driver could be driving due to various other external factors but the three class it has mentioned are notorious for their driving (generally). Even on T-Bhp we have numerous posts about that. Similarly elderly and under training drivers could be of any sex.

We have many active users on Twitter with vested interests who can create controversy out of anything. Who knows it might have been created by rivals (eg VW, Hyundai, Maruti, etc.) or by the rival Ad agency against the one who got the contract. Then there is group of Liberals who know how to write, speak, behave, follow everything perfectly but the ultimate result comes out exactly opposite. I therefore give this thread that much weight. We also had a trend of Cutting Pasting ToI news and starting a new thread on T-BHP but that seem to have reduced or rather I don't follow other threads apart from Demonetisation and Hexa thread so this reminds me about that phenomenon.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:14   #38
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Default re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

The poll has been taken down, and Ford India has posted this on their Twitter page:

Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!-untitled.jpg
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:56   #39
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

Oh dear, so one can't even hold polls to learn the sexist nature of the population???
This is utter foolishness and uber-prude behaviour shown by the internazis ...

Ford, I don't know why you posted - but I see nothing wrong in your question.
You simply asked how do people behave ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruchitya View Post
Have people lost their ability to understand english, or do they have nothing else to get offended about? Yes, PR should avoid controversy. But what they have asked is a fact on our roads. My female family members have more than once mentioned either over-taking or rash maneuvers by fellow road users, once they see it is a woman at the wheels. That's all the poll is asking. What sort of REACTION is usually seen when either a woman/elderly/learner is at the wheel.
The tweet doesn't categorise women as learners. It just asks what is the reaction usually seen when a woman is at the wheel. Nothing is said about the woman/elderly/learner, it is instead directed at other users of the road.
And the word 'or' is used because 'and' would imply all three conditions to be true. Seriously, get something real to be offended about.
It is a sad sad world. I see even the learned people of this forum not being able to understand our point.

Last edited by alpha1 : 16th January 2017 at 11:58.
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:12   #40
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
They are literally equating women drivers (of any age) to people who are learning to drive, and elderly. How is this not sexist?

There is also the offense of ageism, of comparing elderly to newbie drivers.
You missed the third stereotype that anybody who is a newbie driver is by default a bad driver. This will have driving instructors in the US, UK and Europe (especially Scandinavia) up in arms!

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
The poll has been taken down, and Ford India has posted this on their Twitter page:




Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Oh dear, so one can't even hold polls to learn the sexist nature of the population???
This is utter foolishness and uber-prude behaviour shown by the internazis ...
Wait. Some people got offended about a silly Twitter poll that had no business being put up in the first place and now you're offended that Ford DELETED that tweet?
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:16   #41
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

I know of several ladies who drive cars exceptionally well. If men cannot get over this trait of labeling them as being otherwise, I fail to see how we are progressing as a society.

And btw, if a car is indeed going slow in the rightmost lane it would be imprudent to honk and judge the driver. One needs to wait and give the driver some time before taking any action.

I find this just stupid and strong reactions from the female world are absolutely justified.

Disgusting PR, seriously. Does nobody from Ford review what's put up, before it goes live!!??
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:24   #42
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

Well I had faced an the exact opposite situation almost two months back. It was in Gurgaon, around 11 in night, I was driving around 40kmph on an inter-sector road. Suddenly I noticed a car approaching from behind at higher speed and continuously honking (horn pressed). My instincts told me to move aside and let that pass. The car didn't slowed down a bit and almost brushed mine. As it passed I noticed that cabin lights were on and a lady was driving it. With her posture and her driving (rather swaying) I could gather that she was drunk enough not to be driving at all.

I shared this to my wife and her reactions shocked me the most "You are complaining because a woman was driving, what about the guys who drink and drive". I was left speechless. Talk about sexism
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Old 16th January 2017, 13:37   #43
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
The poll has been taken down, and Ford India has posted this on their Twitter page
At about midnight! Guess the PR agency was called to work late last night! Hahaha, so much for dinner plans.

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
It is a sad sad world. I see even the learned people of this forum not being able to understand our point.
We did, buddy. Did you try to understand ours? Lets replace women & elderly with other folk that an otherwise responsible MNC thinks you'll behave differently behind. Question:

Quote:
How do people behave when they are following Gujaratis / Muslims / Parsis / Sardarjis (note: I'm a Gujarati myself).

a) Honk repeatedly
b) Avoid
c) Tailgate them
Like Ford, not only am I implying there is something different about the driver, but I also haven't used a poll option that says "not differently" or "what difference does it make?".

Does this poll sound okay to you?

Irrespective of what Ford was trying to say about bias on the road, that poll was an incredibly DUMB idea.

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Some people got offended about a silly Twitter poll that had no business being put up in the first place and now you're offended that Ford DELETED that tweet?
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Old 16th January 2017, 14:04   #44
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
but I also haven't used a poll option that says "not differently" or "what difference does it make?".
Yes you are right. I agree with you on this point.
If the intention is to gather opinions of the population, then "indifference" is also an opinion that may be harbored by a significant percent of population and therefore needs to be present in the poll.
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Old 16th January 2017, 14:16   #45
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Default Re: Ford India gets flak on Twitter for sexist poll. EDIT: Ford deletes it!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Like Ford, not only am I implying there is something different about the driver, but I also haven't used a poll option that says "not differently" or "what difference does it make?".

Does this poll sound okay to you?

Irrespective of what Ford was trying to say about bias on the road, that poll was an incredibly DUMB idea.

Yes, the tweet was a DUMB idea. Our country is not mature enough to talk about these things openly. This tweet is a conversation point for all guy gangs, team-stall conversations on driving behavior - "bhai, 3 type ke logon se bachke chalna parta hai - uncle, ladki aur auto" etc etc.

You know why - because those are distinguishable characteristics of the driver which can be generalized into perception. Parsi, Gujarati etc is not something you can figure out while struggling to pass a stubborn slow driver in the right lane.

Honestly, haven't you heard this ever? Why is it sacrilege to have this poll on social media? There is a way to disagree - forget it, tweet against.

Perception can be positive as well as negative - for e.g. "Parsi owned" gets a premium. But all perception is generalization of some data - perceived by the human brain, not some analytics tool made by people who can only medically use a fraction of it.

On what led to the tweet being taken down -

Threatening to not buy their product or hounding them to take the post down is immature and "raw" in my opinion.
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