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Old 11th August 2017, 06:16   #46
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I pretty much have the same dilemma. Incidentally I actually checked out Jeep Wrangler specs yesterday and it does offer both ABS + Airbags. We all know the Wrangler off road credentials and the flexibility it offers in terms of removable roof/doors + drain holes for washing etc. I think Mahindra needs to take a leaf from Jeep on this one. Probably there can be like a cut off switch which deactivates your ABS/Airbags etc when you head off road, simple as that.
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Old 11th August 2017, 07:36   #47
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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Also how do you make airbags which do not deploy on impacts during off roading? do you give it a switch to keep off?
Most cars already have this switch for switching off passenger airbag. Generally hidden betwern the door and the side of the dashboard or simply a button on the dash console. So the technology is already there.

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
ABS senses wheel spin and applies brakes, does it work during rock climbing?
On the contrary, ABS senses wheels locking up and RELEASES the brakes intermittently.

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
People looking for a family car should look at a Maruti Alto or Honda city. You cannot take a true blue off roader and add creature comforts to it.
Looking at the "feature" and "creature comforts" in two of the world's best off roaders - the German Leopard2A6 and our own Arjun Mk2 - I disagree with this point. Why should my kid not be safe in a Thar exactly?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
What's more important for an offroader is torque. Now, Mahindra will obviously use turbo-charging (& maybe direct injection?), but then my worry is turbo lag.

They'll need a lot of power to move the 1,700 kilo Jeep. If it is a 1.5L, that'll mean a big turbo.

If the Thar is going the petrol way, it'll need to have a larger petrol engine. 1.5L is just way too small.
Also - many like me might pick a Gypsy over a Thar if Petrol was the fuel of choice.


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Airbags alone won't make the Thar safer. It's a vintage body style with a lot of jugaad on the chassis. Put it through any crash test and it'll end up with zero stars.

Considering that crash-testing is going to become compulsory in India, this 'next-gen' Thar might just be a safer Thar (with the required structural modifications).
If I remember it right - our very own BehraamDhabhar had once said on the official THAR review thread (when he was still in M&M or just about to move on to the new challenges) that considering the upcoming vehicle specification & regulation updates in near future, it may not be possible to keep selling the THAR in its current structure & guise.

So it will have to be really an "All new" car with retention of cosmetics and appearances at most. Not sure if it holds true today though, there may of course have been changes made to those upcoming regulations based on feedback from auto-makers and experts. Afterall, that would make a lot of other vehicles illegal on the road also. So perhaps re-segmenting of vehicles in differently regulated categories will be required.

[I'm already reporting to the Mods myself to merge this post with the one above.]

Last edited by GTO : 12th August 2017 at 08:44. Reason: Merging back to back posts
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Old 11th August 2017, 12:36   #48
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
............People looking for a family car should look at a Maruti Alto or Honda city. You cannot take a true blue off roader and add creature comforts to it.
I would disagree with you on this point. There a many Thar aficionados who have modified the vehicle and use it as a family car.

A prime example is our fellow BHPian, cpboppana from Bangalore, who has documented the mods he has carried out in his thread 'Call of the wild'. If you spend some time going through this thread, it will be an eye opener.

Further, based on what I have read in this forum, I understand that the if late Mr. Behram Dhabhar, had been sanctioned a bigger budget, the Thar would have had a lot more 'creature' comforts.

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Originally Posted by somitra1981 View Post
I pretty much have the same dilemma. Incidentally I actually checked out Jeep Wrangler specs yesterday and it does offer both ABS + Airbags. We all know the Wrangler off road credentials and the flexibility it offers in terms of removable roof/doors + drain holes for washing etc. I think Mahindra needs to take a leaf from Jeep on this one. Probably there can be like a cut off switch which deactivates your ABS/Airbags etc when you head off road, simple as that.
I too have checked out the specs of the Wrangler and have realise that the Thar finally has some serious competition.

Given the 'killer' pricing strategy adopted by FCA when launching the Compass, a premium category vehicle, I would expect that the Wrangler would be priced at a discount of at least 20%.

This implies that M&M would have to deliver both in terms of features and price to maintain market share. After all, M&M cannot depend on the fact that lots of us Thar aficionados believe that it is the best looking vehicle around at the moment. At least I do.

Guess it would make sense to wait a few months to decide.
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Old 5th February 2018, 15:05   #49
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

The existing Thar is a mix of parts from other M&M vehicles, including the body shell almost everything is shared by other M&M outputs.

When Honda recalled cars for faulty Takata airbags, some models of Ford Rangers were also recalled for the same reason, which means the same part in both the vehicles. So when different manufacturers share same parts its not a surprise for M&M to commonize parts that too on a low volume product.

So going by this logic, I guess the new gen Thar will share most of parts from TUV300, wont be surprised even if its the same powertrain, or from the new long chassis TUV which is to be launched soon. Tuv chassis, engine combination is already crash tested and will be relatively easy for design team to build a Thar looking body from TUV's floor and dash wall. Or worst case it will end up having the de-tuned 2.2 engine from Scorpio (Coz they would not want a more expensive Scorpio to be slower than Thar). ABS and Airbag is also assumed to be shared from Scorpio or TUV. Dash might either be from TUV or new gen Bolero or even from a Verito.

All of it depends on how they decide to price it.

So other than the look nothing much is likely to be "all new" in the new Thar. Again, i'm no way related to M&M other than the Thar I own. Just posting my personal assumptions...
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Old 5th February 2018, 17:03   #50
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I have noticed a small change around me these days. Suddenly more and more people have started talking excitedly about owning a Isuzu pick up truck or a Thar. I feel this niche segment might see some phenomenal growth in the coming..They have to make it comfortable enough to be used as a daily drive for 6 days of the week and as an off-roader for the 7th day.
Yes. Very true. I feel TATA is in the best position to exploit this but has wrongly de-focused away from the Xenon. They need to update xenon with Hexa engine plus better interiors and can walk all over the Isuzu Vcross. But will they do it?

Thar too can be updated but crossing the safety requirements will be a big hurdle for the existing platform. Also it will be really hard to make the Thar comfortable in the city.
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Old 6th February 2018, 20:32   #51
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yes. Very true. I feel TATA is in the best position to exploit this but has wrongly de-focused away from the Xenon.
I think a civilian version of the Sumo 4WD Ambulance with the 3.0 Dicor engine will give good competition to the Thar. It is medium wheel base with good interior space, 4 Doors, etc..
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Old 6th February 2018, 20:54   #52
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yes. Very true. I feel TATA is in the best position to exploit this but has wrongly de-focused away from the Xenon. They need to update xenon with Hexa engine plus better interiors and can walk all over the Isuzu Vcross. But will they do it?
but I think Maruti will steal the show once again by introducing Jimmy.
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Old 8th February 2018, 14:59   #53
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by bhavik.1991 View Post
but I think Maruti will steal the show once again by introducing Jimmy.
Jimmny is in the talk for a long while now... Sadly there seem to be no noise about it in this Auto expo as well... hope they bring it out soon.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:58   #54
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Yes. Very true. I feel TATA is in the best position to exploit this but has wrongly de-focused away from the Xenon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I think a civilian version of the Sumo 4WD Ambulance with the 3.0 Dicor engine will give good competition to the Thar.
+1 to both of these. A base version Storme 4wd, a 4x4 3L Xenon (or the elite version) which common people could buy with private registration, a civilian 4wd SUMO, the options and potentials are huge in TATA's stable. But sadly it doesn't look like any of these would be looked at seriously especially after the demise of BD sir.
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Old 9th March 2018, 00:43   #55
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Default Rumour: Mahindra developing next-gen Thar

Mahindra is developing a new thar on the scorpio platform. It would also comply with the crash regulations.
Here is the link for more information.
https://www.cartoq.com/mahindra-deve...-suv-platform/
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Old 9th March 2018, 19:15   #56
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by Viju View Post
I think this is nothing but Mahindra being forced to improve the Thar to meet upcoming regulations in the country - Crash safety, Airbags and ABS. I really hope they ask their 'designers' to stay far away from this project, and let the engineers do their work.
A factory hard-top and usable 2nd row, along with improved fit and finish (talking about Overall QC here - not asking for touchscreen ICE or any 'modern' features), at a realistic price will have a lot of takers in the coming years. Let us hope someone at Mahindra feels the same way.
`

I think you have nailed it - keep the 'designers' away and work on overall QC is the need of the hour. A factory-fitted OEM hard-top & a proper 2nd row bench would not detract from off-road credentials, neither would coil springs instead of leaf springs at the rear for the 4WD option. And the need to comply with coming regulations becomes mandatory if the Thar is to stay in business.
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Old 9th March 2018, 19:40   #57
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

A Thar will be Thar and a Jeep will be at 75 lakh unless Jeep does a Compass like project and launches a Thar rival at the 15 to 18 lakh bracket which is achievable.

The Thar would not vary greatly from its Ssayangyoung Kornado tub, albeit a new one may be sourced.

As for Petrol engines the Ssyangong Muso and Rexton and its Daewoo version also Rexton did have a Mercedede 230 E 2300 cc Petrol Engine under license.

What are the real improvements required in a Thar. Not very far fetched. All the required technology is already there.

Absolute must.
Better and more powerful brakes
A better rear suspension and ride quality
Both of these can be lifted off from the Scorpio.

Other options
Auto windows
Auto mirrors - for an higher end option.
Auto transmission
Again all technology and bin parts available.
Hard top option - Mahindra develops vendors for O/E supplies. The Thar Canopy is a vendor supplied product from Pune.
A Hard top ( factory fitted ) can easily be developed from a vendor.

Air bags in an off-road vehicle is a mixed opinion. But if it can be manually switched on and off then an important safety feature.

Better front seats, again a lift off from scorpio would also help.
The new vehicle tub dimensions may be altered to incorporate this but the Formula Scorpio Chassis is there to work on.
A few months down the line more drive train systems technology will become available from vendors in Detroit in whatever bid they are trying to achieve in attempting to launch a Jeep clone there.
In that vehicle too the serious issues to ponder will be much of the above while a 200 BHP engine will be required to compete with the Wrangler's 3600 CC V6.

Last edited by desertfox : 9th March 2018 at 19:43.
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Old 20th April 2018, 13:15   #58
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

Rumour: Next-gen Thar to get new platform, safety tech

New details of the next-gen Mahindra Thar have surfaced online. According to a media report, the new Thar will be based on an all-new platform and is expected to be ready before new crash safety regulations come into effect in April 2020.

Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming-2015mahindrathar05.jpg

It has been previously reported that Mahindra is developing a new platform that will be shared among various products with the Thar likely to be the first to use this new ladder frame architecture. The company is expected to take design inputs from Pininfarina, Ssangyong as well as its own in-house design team.

The new Thar could get features like wireless charging, memory seats, assisted driving and smartphone connectivity. The vehicle is also expected to comply with future crash safety regulations. Therefore, safety features such as ABS, airbags, seat belt reminder and rear parking sensors are likely to be offered as standard.

Mahindra hasn't disclosed any details about the engine that will power the new Thar. However, it is expected to be a BS-VI compliant unit.

Source: Autocar India

Link to Team-BHP News
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Old 20th April 2018, 15:34   #59
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Rumour: Next-gen Thar to get new platform, safety tech

Thar will be based on an all-new platform and is expected to be ready before new crash safety regulations come into effect in April 2020.
That's a bit worrying. Does it mean, the New Thar may not need to pass those Tests ? (Similar to two wheeler manufacturers releasing bikes without ABS before the Law comes into action)

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Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Rumour: Next-gen Thar to get new platform, safety tech
The company is expected to take design inputs from Pininfarina, Ssangyong as well as its own in-house design team.
This is definitely worrying . After TUV and KUV, I dont have any appreciation on Mahindra's in-house design team


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Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Rumour: Next-gen Thar to get new platform, safety tech
The new Thar could get features like wireless charging, memory seats, assisted driving and smartphone connectivity. The vehicle is also expected to comply with future crash safety regulations. Therefore, safety features such as ABS, airbags, seat belt reminder and rear parking sensors are likely to be offered as standard.

Mahindra hasn't disclosed any details about the engine that will power the new Thar. However, it is expected to be a BS-VI compliant unit.
If these statements are to be believed, My above stated safety concern will become invalid.
If Mahindra doesn't spoil the design, the only thing that will stop many (including me) from buying a Thar will be the pricing. Hope Mahindra comes up with a killer pricing.
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Old 10th May 2018, 14:10   #60
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Default Re: Next-gen Mahindra Thar coming

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Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
Rumour: Next-gen Thar to get new platform, safety tech

New details of the next-gen Mahindra Thar have surfaced online. According to a media report, the new Thar will be based on an all-new platform and is expected to be ready before new crash safety regulations come into effect in April 2020.
Modifying the existing vehicle platform for any changes is always painful, as the same involves huge cost like validation, endurance & especially for tool development. So OEM's are more inclined towards new platform development.

The designs are released, prototypes are made with soft tools. Giving go ahead for final die is quite critical and both the designer as well as test engineer has to be confident enough to take a final call for final design release.

In case of Thar, keeping the original styling would be a tough task for the designers. Making the beast crash compliant would be easier, but as far as pedestrian safety is concerned, major challenges would be faced, especially in case of headform and legform test.

SOP's would depend on the weightage of various homologation tests in the Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Program.

Hope M&M would be doing the needful to keep this beast selling in upcoming years too.
Regards,
Sourabh
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