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Old 8th March 2017, 20:41   #76
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
Here is take of foreign media on Tamo Racemo

http://jalopnik.com/tatas-first-perf...ore-1793047638

Much of the thoughts in this forum are reflected in the article.
Since the article mentions Phygital, I think Tata could explore the possibility of adding modular bits to the dashboard. Lets say on normal days, you can attach a touch screen AVN and on track days, just simply remove the touch screen and add a g-force indicator and maybe an race inspired instrument console. They could do the same with the steering wheel too.

I am not sure if this has been tried before anywhere.
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Old 8th March 2017, 20:45   #77
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by PearlJam View Post
So has the AMT technology really evolved to that extent compared to a DSG? Or is it that, Tamo is achieving these figures inspite of the AMT?
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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Why the heck would you plonk in an AMT in a sports car? The specifications simply beg for a short-shifting 6-speed MT.
The usage of AMT is not due to cost cutting alone. Yes, it is so for the main stream cars in our market.

But in sports cars, it help to save weight and also the packaging. Besides, the jerky shifts can be made a bit more violent for faster shifts and can become a sports car trait which can add to the occasion while driving.


Not with me still?

The modest car below too has a Automated manual transmission mated to its 6.5L V12. Yes, its lot more sophisticated, but it still is one.
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Old 8th March 2017, 21:30   #78
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

For a first attempt, this looks alright. But, I have to say that companies have moved far beyond this kind of design. Further... won't all those layers and gaps in the car's skin have an impact on wind flow? There just seems to be a lot going on.

That said, that 3-pot, 1.2L mill producing 190ps is something else. Thats an engine I would want in a future hot hatch from Tata.
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Old 8th March 2017, 21:56   #79
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by kovilkalai View Post
For a first attempt, this looks alright. But, I have to say that companies have moved far beyond this kind of design.
Which company in India moved beyond this kind of design? Maruti/Mahindra/Hyundai/Honda/VW?
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Old 8th March 2017, 22:03   #80
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
The usage of AMT is not due to cost cutting alone. Yes, it is so for the main stream cars in our market.

But in sports cars, it help to save weight and also the packaging. Besides, the jerky shifts can be made a bit more violent for faster shifts and can become a sports car trait which can add to the occasion while driving.

The modest car below too has a Automated manual transmission mated to its 6.5L V12. Yes, its lot more sophisticated, but it still is one.
Yes but that car also has 700 PS+ power which masks out any lag. Tamo has 190PS. Will it be the same? I think you know the answer.

Low powered cars need manual/dual clutch auto box.
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Old 8th March 2017, 22:15   #81
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Low powered cars need manual/dual clutch auto box.
Why? Can you please elaborate and enlighten us?
How any one can be so sure without having driven one, beats me.
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Old 8th March 2017, 23:01   #82
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
Why? Can you please elaborate and enlighten us?
How any one can be so sure without having driven one, beats me.
2 words : Greater control.

For eg, say you're on a highway and want to overtake. If you have a dual clutch gearbox or manual transmission, you can shift down the gears a lot faster and accelerate accordingly.

On an AMT, you'll have to plan your move. AMT is a very old tech and Tata should've offered a superior gearbox.

On a Lambo making 700+ PS, it won't matter as the power is already out of control.

Nor criticising the car, but the truth is the truth. But yeah, let's drive the car first before making assumptions.
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Old 8th March 2017, 23:28   #83
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
On a Lambo making 700+ PS, it won't matter as the power is already out of control.
I would wait for the car to be launched as well before making any assumptions.

But I would like to disagree that for a Lamborghini that makes 700+ ps, the gear shifts don't matter! The supercar market is extremely competitive. And bad reviews can cost a lot. And numbers down to milliseconds matter more to them than regular cars.
Sorry if this is OT. I'll stop at this.

Agreed, manual is more fun than auto boxes (amts, dcts, whatever), but let's wait and see how it drives.

PS. Anyone has any more info about the new material used for the body shell? Looks interesting and hopefully doesn't feel flimsy like some polycarbonate panels.

Last edited by N.r.K : 8th March 2017 at 23:31.
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Old 8th March 2017, 23:42   #84
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

The car does look like something out of a video game, as is said in the presentation. Will be interesting how they develop this sub-brand, and where and how it will be marketed. At the current prices, in India, it is too expensive for the middle class, and no snob value for the rich.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
2 words : Greater control.

For eg, say you're on a highway and want to overtake. If you have a dual clutch gearbox or manual transmission, you can shift down the gears a lot faster and accelerate accordingly.

On an AMT, you'll have to plan your move. AMT is a very old tech and Tata should've offered a superior gearbox.

On a Lambo making 700+ PS, it won't matter as the power is already out of control.
Just my thoughts - Your assumption that a supercar can make do with a slow gearbox since it has too much power is not really the case. It is quite obvious that performance is paramount to supercar makers, and a fast gearbox is an important part of that. Lambo uses a single clutch AMT which is customized for them and is fast for a single clutch. But it cannot match a dual clutch for speed, say a Ferrari dual clutch (maybe fastest in the world). So why do Lambo persist with a slower gearbox then? Suppose it helps with tight packaging and lesser weight, but it is definitely not since the power can "mask" it.

That being said, if TATA uses the same AMT as in the Celerio et al, in the TAMO, it may not cut it. But a better tuned AMT with faster shifts can be palatable.

Last edited by wantarangerover : 8th March 2017 at 23:45.
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Old 9th March 2017, 00:46   #85
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by sushantr5 View Post
Quote:
The most important thing, though, is that this car looks fun, and it seems like it could get to market retaining that fun and not costing crazy money.

The small engine and relatively modest output is perfect, and I think marketed right this could be the sort of thing that would compete with Toyota 86s and Miatas and Fiat 124s, and maybe even Porsche Caymans and BMW M2s, for those who value fun over power and status.


Iím encouraged by what Iím seeing here, and Iíll quietly hope that we see these show up in Jaguar/Land Rover dealers (remember, Tata owns them) here in the U.S.

Of course, if they donít, you can always fake-drive the car in Forza, where it will become the first Indian-built car ever to grace that series. I canít believe they never had an Ambassador in there.
Love jalopnik take on Tamo Racemo
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Old 9th March 2017, 08:36   #86
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

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Originally Posted by wantarangerover View Post
Just my thoughts - Your assumption that a supercar can make do with a slow gearbox since it has too much power is not really the case. It is quite obvious that performance is paramount to supercar makers, and a fast gearbox is an important part of that. Lambo uses a single clutch AMT which is customized for them and is fast for a single clutch. But it cannot match a dual clutch for speed, say a Ferrari dual clutch (maybe fastest in the world). So why do Lambo persist with a slower gearbox then? Suppose it helps with tight packaging and lesser weight, but it is definitely not since the power can "mask" it.
Not at all my point. I said my statement with respect to comparison with Lamborghini Aventador. On an Aventador, the lag is not obvious because of the amount of power on tap.

Again, never said that it's the best gearbox they could've used.

Now you could argue that since Racemo (name cracks me up everytime) is a budget sportscar, you have to compromise. But then there's the Polo TSI.

There's always a scope of improvement in every car and we as enthusiasts should point it out.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 9th March 2017 at 08:42.
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Old 9th March 2017, 11:42   #87
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

I stand corrected - the kerb weight of the Racemo is 800 kgs. (link)

Quote:
Said to be Indiaís first 1.2-litre turbocharged MPFi petrol engine, this four pot mill is good for 89 HP and 140 Nm of torque is stock guise.
However, the one in the 800kg Racemo is boosted to produce as much as 187.4HP @ 6500RPM and 210 Nm of peak torque available from 2500 RPM, resulting in a 0-100 kph time of under 6 seconds!
Power is sent to the rear wheels using a 6-speed AMT with paddle shifts.
This gives the Racemo a power rating of 234.25 BHP/tonne, and a torque score of 262.5 Nm/tonne.
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Old 9th March 2017, 11:54   #88
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

So, TATA can do this (WOWW). Hope and wish that Racemo (not liking the name anyways) performs with all the positive bits (186 bhp, 900kg, 210 Nm torque) thats there in the spec sheet. I sincerely hope TATA can do an Abarth Punto with this 1.2 mill. A new hot hatch (may be a sedan itself-why not) from home grown automaker in Indian price limits will shake the entire premium hatch segment, a segment where TATA doesnt have a presence presently. The Balenos, Abarths, GTs, GTIs etc will be having a good time catching up if TATA use this tech with a matching shell.
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Old 9th March 2017, 14:46   #89
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Default Re: TAMO: Tata's new mobility solutions brand. Full details on page 3

I think the 190 PS figure sounds great on paper, but in reality you're going to get the peaky power of a small turbo engine.

The power delivery could certainly be a lot of fun, but I don't think you can compare it to, say, a 2L 190PS engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PearlJam View Post
They are managing a 0-100 in around 6 seconds.
If they pull off a 0-100 in the 6.xx second range, especially with an AMT, I'll be incredibly impressed.

Personally, I think this is an optimistic "theoretical" calculation on their part. If you enter 190 PS and 850 Kgs on any of those online 0-60 calculators, it will say 6.xx seconds. However, they totally disregard the power curve (peaky in this case) and the transmission (AMT shift times).


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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
The modest car below too has a Automated manual transmission mated to its 6.5L V12.
While it is a single-clutch automatic, it doesn't seem to really be an AMT in the same way (ie. existing manual gearbox + AMT actuator). The gearbox apparently is built specifically for this purpose and has things like ISRs.


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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
But, TaMo went the AMT route at the last moment and launched the Racemo with it. Waiting to hear back from the birdies the reason behind this decision.
I can see a couple of reasons here:

1) We are enthusiasts. But we might not be the guys buying the RACEMO. At the end of the day, it might sell to people who have a 30L budget and want something unique (think: Avanti customers). They would be more happy to get an automatic than a manual (which is also seen as a big "feature" in India). Also, brilliant move to give the car butterfly doors, adds hugely to the wow factor.

2) Cockpit design looks more futuristic for the Geneva show.

3) Maybe it's possible that the final car might come with a MT after all? It's really a matter of adding a set of cables and a gear lever to change an AMT to an MT. Saves weight and cost too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
I am guessing the 001 car is the stock production level car and the 002 car is the race version.
I haven't seen any pics showing the more 'racing' type steering in either of the cars. It only seems to be that way in the renders.

I don't think there will be a 'race' version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
Is there any details on the weight? that would give us an idea of what to expect in the handling department (light = agile) suspension would surely be on the firm side.
YES! This could be the area in which the Racemo really shines.

Good suspension, steering feel and light weight could make the car an absolute hoot to drive, even with a 1.2 engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB@TVMBHP View Post
The only downside I absolutely hate is the limited 250 unit production. TAMO should build this car and sell it as a Halo car just to keep up the brand image ...
Enzo Ferrari once said "You should always build one less car than the market demands"

In other words, Tata is playing it safe here (and I think that is a good thing! Rather than projecting sales of 2000).

If the car is a roaring success, you can be assured they will be happy to exceed the 250 number.

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Originally Posted by MartinVirage View Post
2) Why AMT? I guess most of the turbocharged engines are fragile (i don't mean unreliable or not long lasting but just fragile). It is much easier to programme an engine management brain that can stop people from over-revving and over stressing the car. (my perspective )
3) Torque output is reduced so as to mate it to the AMT
2) Over-revving is controlled by the ECM. I guess an AMT could prevent mis-shifts, but I don't think that's any more of a concern in this car than it is in others

3) The internal mechanicals between an AMT and a MT are identical. Only the external shifting mechanism is different. Hence there are no torque concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prasathlr View Post
Pratap bose conveys that you can expect the launch of RaceMo deliveries by end of year 2017
Wow, that's a very aggressive timeline. But then again... Safari Storme launch date, Hexa launch date

Last edited by Rehaan : 9th March 2017 at 14:54.
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Old 9th March 2017, 18:03   #90
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Default Tata / Tamo 'Racemo' Sportscar: Mid-engined, 1.2-liter turbo, 187 BHP

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Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
Why? Can you please elaborate and enlighten us?
How any one can be so sure without having driven one, beats me.

It is better we hold our opinions before even driving the vehicle. I know it's from TATA and no one wants to digest this.
If, they have improved so much why such negative judgements. Let's just applaud atleast they are doing something. Rather I must admit, it looks good at least for a first timer in this segment. These small efforts will help them get better in all the vehicles they would/are producing. Gives them more insights to improve with experience.

Also, I won't doubt their sports car ability as they have also have JLR under the belt. Doubting their ability is a far gone thing

Last edited by shravan2k2 : 9th March 2017 at 18:10.
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