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Old 30th March 2017, 16:37   #31
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by Dani7766 View Post
But, I wish they also completely disagree with those getting cars remapped outside for more power. Shouldn't that be banned? How does the government approve that? I'm quite sure a remapped car or a car with a tuning box is likely to pollute more than a stock car.
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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
i got mine remapped after the first call by VW. If someone is following the law of the land - why rage against them ?
Remapping without the approval of the RTO and the manufacturer is illegal. Even after remap, the power and torque figure must match those given in the RC, except in special cases. (Link) This is the procedure for legal modification - Link (Own a modified car in India? Might want to read this)

Last edited by deerhunter : 30th March 2017 at 16:45.
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Old 30th March 2017, 16:37   #32
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
True. That I do understand. I'm just hoping someone here can throw more light on this.



Totally agree to the comparison with the earlier 1.6

However my question, if I didn't make it clear earlier, is about the 105hp 1.5 diesel as against the new 'post emission scandal' 110hp diesel.

Somehow, the new 110hp car didn't feel like the older ones did, but that could be my feel because I only drove the earlier 1.5L 105hp car only in traffic. But I suspect it's the mid-range on the new 110hp that's less, making it feel 'slower' than earlier. Perhaps someone who has driven these two extensively can correct / confirm my doubts.
I took a longinsh test drive of Ameo Diesel manual and felt that the power was coming in linear fashion like the Ford Ecosport diesel. But then the real power was coming only after 2k rpms in which I guess the Ecosport is tuned better. While taking the test drive I did some WOT as well to feel the typical VAG diesel pull but somehow it was linear from 2k-4k RPMs. I didnt venture to 4k+ RPMs. The fun was only the free revving nature of the engine and the NVH seemed lesser than Polo diesel.

Last edited by Waspune : 30th March 2017 at 16:41.
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Old 30th March 2017, 16:39   #33
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by Dani7766 View Post
Have given my Jetta for second service today. Have told them to get my vehicle back to the previous setting. They are denying loss of power or mileage. They are telling me, it isn't possible to reset to the previous setting. Why don't we all join and fight for our rights. We have been clearly cheated. They've compensated in the US.
I too feel cheated. All that they are giving is a small kit with some cleaning stuff - clearly not my idea of a compensation for altering the engine specifications. VW India should offer something more substantial - maybe 2 or 3 free annual services??

On the issue of pollution, VW have clearly stated that even without the software upgrade the engines fully complied with BS-IV, and that to me is not a reason to update the software. An updated car can pollute more than a non-updated car if driven badly
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Old 30th March 2017, 18:07   #34
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I just got my Polo 1.2 TDI "software updated" from Vidyut Motors. I am not sure if the software update was done at all, since I do not feel any difference in the power output irrespective of the rpm/gear. Given that the 1.2 is already anemic, the resulting power loss could be negligible. But I sincerely hope the update was done, and my car is polluting lesser than before.

On a side note, I had asked them not to wash my car since I had gotten a 3M wax coat done just a day before. Guess what the final bill still showed washing charges. VW will foot this bill. Sounds like a good way of making a quick buck, Park the car for a few hours and return it back?

So much for emission standards when there are a gazillion tuk-tuks belching black smoke all over our roads!
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Old 30th March 2017, 18:53   #35
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Default Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

My 2014 VW Polo HL 1.5 TDI underwent the software update last week and my observations are
1. A slight drop in power. That sudden rush has dropped slightly. Now it's almost a linear power delivery.
2. The gear indicator asks for an up shift at lower rpms which was not there before. But the downshift is not changed.
3. Tractor sound has increased marginally
4. Mileage is showing a slight increase by 1-1.5kmpl.
Overall I'm not that satisfied with the upgrade except for the mileage.

Last edited by nidhinsarath : 30th March 2017 at 18:54.
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Old 31st March 2017, 09:56   #36
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated.

Like Supreme Court noted in a recent verdict - Health of the nation is more important than the commercial interests.
There is no right or wrong here IMHO. However, by the same line of thinking, we should also:

- Not encourage remaps. That isn't exactly the case with us enthusiasts, and you & me both have commented on / thanked remap threads / posts. An after-market remap is perhaps equally / more polluting than VW's scam software.

- Not encourage most modifications - including wider tyres (increased FE), power boxes etc.

- Not encourage more powerful performance variants which inevitably burn more fuel.

- Discourage old vehicles (including 20 year old Jeeps & vintage cars), Supercars etc. which are all very polluting.

- If one cares so much about the environment, he shouldn't be driving a car the size of a Jetta or Vento in the first place!!! Go small, stick to small cars. Or an EV. Or a bike. Or public transportation. Or cycle. Or walk.

It's very easy to diss VW owners who aren't getting their cars updated. But from their point of view, imagine waiting years to buy your dream car and then ending up with poorer performance than originally promised.

I have no qualms in saying that if I owned a Polo / Vento / Jetta:

1. I'd get it updated from a VW workshop just to get it done with.
2. Next day, I'd get an after-market performance remap.

An analogy: I found it strange that, at one time, Hummer H2s & H3s in the USA got a lot of hate wherever they went. But the same people who criticised Hummers had no problem with an equally gas-guzzling 8 - 12 cylinder premium sedan (e.g. S-Class AMG).

Last edited by GTO : 31st March 2017 at 13:42.
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Old 31st March 2017, 10:45   #37
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Having worked in the automotive software industry for a couple of years, I find it hard to believe such an Engine Control Unit SW got into production in the first place.
I worked on a less critical but equally important Body Control Module for Ford EU/NA, and the validations and reviews were VERY STRICT to say the least.
Partly because of this, I selected a Figo as my first car.
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Old 31st March 2017, 11:07   #38
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhinsarath View Post
My 2014 VW Polo HL 1.5 TDI underwent the software update last week and my observations are
1. A slight drop in power. That sudden rush has dropped slightly. Now it's almost a linear power delivery.
2. The gear indicator asks for an up shift at lower rpms which was not there before. But the downshift is not changed.
3. Tractor sound has increased marginally
4. Mileage is showing a slight increase by 1-1.5kmpl.
Overall I'm not that satisfied with the upgrade except for the mileage.
Hello Nidhin,

Did VW specifically intimate you and call you for this update? Or was it done as part of a service schedule?

Did you try refusing?

I have the same car and i love it to bits just for the drivability. i am scared i might lose the fun.

Regards
Bharath
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Old 31st March 2017, 11:26   #39
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Originally Posted by bharath79 View Post
Hello Nidhin,



Did VW specifically intimate you and call you for this update? Or was it done as part of a service schedule?



Did you try refusing?



I have the same car and i love it to bits just for the drivability. i am scared i might lose the fun.



Regards

Bharath

Yeah Bharath, I was informed earlier about the update and I didn't refuse it.
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Old 31st March 2017, 14:07   #40
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by tilt View Post

My case has been the opposite -

1. my engine has become noticeably louder, both in idle and in running, I can feel the engine when I am sitting inside the car. Before the neutering, the only way I knew the car was on was by looking at the tach.

2. Fuel economy has dropped rather than improve.

Cheers
Well that's conflicting experiences for many of us then. My opinion about the reduced engine sound may also be due to the placebo effect as the car is much more calmer now in response and has lost its earlier furiousness. Also Jettas TDI isn't one of the most refined motors out there. You always know its an oil burner under there. But I love the bassy vroom of the TDI compared to the clatter that we get in many other cars. I have always felt the engine sound and vibrations as well as the DSG shifting cogs in the Jetta from the very beginning of my ownership (in comparison it's difficult to decipher all these on my new x1 or the Polo TSI that I'd TDed). I'm a keen observer and someone inclined to petrol cars so may be because of that. Also the AC blower speed can have a major impact on the perceived engine noise inside.

The fuel efficiency improvement is something that I can vouch for. Even on city rides I'm noticing +1kmpl difference on MID. On highway trips where I used to get 16.xx kmpl earlier, now after the update the car came up with 19kmpl. I'm not someone who drives for max fuel efficiency figures. That 19kmpl included enough of strong A pedal inputs and high cruising speeds. All of that from a 2.0 sedan with DSG felt impressive. At the end of it, being robbed off some of the driving pleasure which was guaranteed when the car was bought isn't a nice feeling. But I have learned to live with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharath79 View Post

Did you try refusing?

I have the same car and i love it to bits just for the drivability. i am scared i might lose the fun.

Regards
Bharath
I don't think you can refuse it. If you haven't got the car updated they will get it flashed the next time you go in for a service with/without your notice. AFAIK they have a list of VINs of cars updated and yet to be updated. So it may be a tough thing to do.

Last edited by SUPERSPORT : 31st March 2017 at 14:21.
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Old 31st March 2017, 15:32   #41
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.
I requested the update not to be done on my Jetta and the dealer took a signature from me for this request. However, I am neither proud that I bypassed this update, nor am I ready to end up being a victim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Considering the cars were sold without confirming to the existing emission norms valid during the time of sales, hope the NGT / government takes stricter measures like cancellation of registration for vehicles that are not being updated with the new software that makes these vehicles legally road worthy.
IMHO, that is harsh! If NGT has to cancel registration of vehicles that are not being updated, then it should also make VW buy back the cars at cost price so that the owners do not end up cheated (like they did in the US). It is VW's fault that they implemented cheat software in the car. I got the Jetta just for the power delivery. If VW had not cheated on emissions, and if the Jetta was as tame as some owners claim it to be after the software update, I would have ended up buying some other car - maybe the Octavia 1.8TSi. Why should I be punished for what VW did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's very easy to diss VW owners who aren't getting their cars updated. But from their point of view, imagine waiting years to buy your dream car and then ending up with poorer performance than originally promised.
That is exactly my situation here, and I believe the situation of many other owners as well! Thanks a ton for understanding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERSPORT View Post
I don't think you can refuse it. If you haven't got the car updated they will get it flashed the next time you go in for a service with/without your notice. AFAIK they have a list of VINs of cars updated and yet to be updated. So it may be a tough thing to do.
There is an option to refuse. I had given the Jetta for 3rd year service a couple of days back and I had asked them not to perform the update. In fact, I strongly insisted that they do not carry this update. They agreed to do this and they also took my signature on a small paper with a note "Do not perform campaign". In the invoice also, this was mentioned. I have driven the car after the service on a 700km trip and I do not feel any drop in power (hope this is not psycological). I can still feel the same surge of power while overtaking on 2 lane roads.

Last edited by graaja : 31st March 2017 at 15:38.
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Old 31st March 2017, 16:25   #42
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
+1.

If NGT can propose cancellation of diesel vehicles under than 10 years, don't see why they can't go ahead with this! Driving pleasure / trust/ shortchanging etc has to be dealt with VW and it's customers, and the nation does not really need to wait for this!
I don't think it has been comprehensively proven that VW diesel emissions in India are exceeding either the BS3 or BS 4 norms. VW is calling this a voluntary recall (voluntary from their part. I am not sure if it will be voluntary for customers. Graaja's post above is ray of hope) to make it at par with the global variants and they have categorically denied that their cars are running foul of the Indian emissions norms.

If you want more complexity, my car is registered in a town where only BS3 norms were applicable when i registered the car. There is no way that the car is failing BS3 norms, so why should i be penalised? I don't want to comment on what the NGT is doing, suffice to say that many of their orders are not the most well thought out or logical

So i don't think any of us (VW diesel owners) are in any way violating the pollution mandate. Yes, by updating, maybe, we will pollute the atmosphere a little less and that is a good thing and if there was no perceptible difference in the power or toque delivery i would have loved to do it even if it meant being a little less fuel efficient, but power and torque is something which i don't want to lose especially when i am not violating any law.

On the matter of getting the update although Graaja's post talks about a way to bypass the update i am not sure it will work. I feel the next time when you need a SW update for some other factor this update will automatically happen, so i don't have much hope except that it can be delayed.

Last edited by Mohan Mathew A : 31st March 2017 at 16:33.
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Old 31st March 2017, 17:08   #43
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post

There is an option to refuse. I had given the Jetta for 3rd year service a couple of days back and I had asked them not to perform the update. In fact, I strongly insisted that they do not carry this update. They agreed to do this and they also took my signature on a small paper with a note "Do not perform campaign".
Thanks and nice to hear that! I was one among the first to get this update done and at that time there weren't many reviews and neither did I find the difference until I drove her really hard. When I asked the SA whether I can refuse it he kept on pushing me saying there's no difference in performance, everyone is getting it done, you can only postpone it and I will have to remind the SA when I come in for service etc.. So I finally gave in. The reason why I took the car to service centre was that my second ABS sensor failed within 1.5 years of ownership. Thank God for warranty & I hope things won't go like my Polo experience(4 sensors + many more troubles). So remaining owners if you are really worried about power loss do refuse the update. In a country where a poorly maintained truck/bus or rikshas pollutes as much as 10 VWs(& no body gives a damn about them) there's no need to question ones decision/integrity of avoiding it. It's our hard earned money after all!

Last edited by SUPERSPORT : 31st March 2017 at 17:10.
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Old 31st March 2017, 17:20   #44
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I own a 1.5 Vento. For those suggesting some of the VW owners of being insensitive towards the environment and also about them bragging about not getting their vehicles software updated I would just want to describe my dilemma when I got those calls from dealership asking me to update the software.

It might sound a bit off topic but I have to mention this to support what I felt when I got a call asking me to get the software updated on my car.

A little background on my car selection:
I had never driven a VW car before in my life, also was not knowing anything about its performance aspects back then. I had a budget of around 9 lacs(upper limit) in hand and was looking for a good car not necessarily a sedan per se.

I test drove the following cars and below is my feedback (wont bore you with a lot of details, just a few one liners)
Honda City D: Its engine was loud and felt crude moreover nothing excited me with the car to buy one.
Suzuki Ciaz: This car had everything, the space, decent power, features, "Good fuel economy" etc. but somehow nothing motivated me to buy it.
Scorpio: Really liked the road presence, had decent power figures but my family did not like it hence dropped this one.
Linea T-jet: a good performer with a turbocharged petrol engine. Lackluster after sales service reports and the ever so dwindling number of dealerships across the country were the only concerns. I was ready to live with it and made up my mind to get one for my self
Vento TDI DSG: Casually walked in to a VW showroom on a weekend and test-drove this car without any intentions of buying. Just half a kilometer into my test-drive and I was grinning ear to ear. The torque was enormous. It was a revelation for me. The dsg was lightning quick . Another 1 km and I made up my mind, bye bye T-jet and welcome to the 1.5tdi dsg. The Comfortline version came at 13.5 OTR which was way above my budget, still went for it just because of the performance.

Have been enjoying the torque ever since.
Did a couple of really long drives (Pune-Rajasthan-Pune and Pune-Bhutan-Pune) only to be left wanting for more.

Now coming back to the topic at hand, when I received that call from the dealership asking me to get the software updated, instantly I felt a need to not go for it. I thought this update would spoil the purpose for which I bought this vehicle for and it would feel like any other car which I considered during the buying process. I was sure there would be a sharp power decline (which is the usp of this car) post the Update. After reading the reviews of the owners who got the software updated all my doubts were laid to rest. I went in for a 30k service and outrightly rejected the update by giving it to the service staff in writing and they obliged. I am sure to enjoy the unrestricted toque for at least the next 10k kms. Sorry for the long post but couldn’t resist putting across my thoughts. I am sure many other TDI owners would be able to connect with me on an emotional level on this topic.

Last edited by Shashidl : 31st March 2017 at 17:23.
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Old 31st March 2017, 18:16   #45
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Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
On the matter of getting the update although Graaja's post talks about a way to bypass the update i am not sure it will work. I feel the next time when you need a SW update for some other factor this update will automatically happen, so i don't have much hope except that it can be delayed.
Is it so difficult to avoid getting any software updates and instead do the servicing at a garage outside?

Keep your car in the current state for as long as you can.

Regards
Bharath
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