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Old 31st March 2017, 20:06   #46
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.
I own a 2015 Polo 1.5 TDI and one of the primary reasons for buying it was the TDI's power/torque delivery which plastered a smile on my face every single time I drove. All other cars which I considered failed to generate the same feeling in me. And as a VAG car owner based in Cochin, I have plenty of performance upgrade options available nearby, but I decided to stick to the stock tune as I have always felt that it is sufficient for my style of driving, the traffic & road conditions in KL.

I'm no environmentalist, but if I can contribute to lesser emissions without affecting the performance of my car which I paid for, I'm 100% willing to get it done. But, sadly that's not the case here. And that's what is frustrating to all the VAG TDI owners.

I don't intend to dilute the performance of my car in any way in return of a lousy VW branded car care kit.

Would you have gone ahead with the update if you were a TDI owner and the primary reason you bought the car was the punch it offered?

Last edited by BigBrad : 31st March 2017 at 20:10.
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Old 31st March 2017, 22:45   #47
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I have a Polo TDI 1.5 Highline September 2015 manufactured. I bought the car just when the "Dieselgate" scandal made it to the news. Probably the same month I got the car. During my last visit to the service centre for 2nd inspection which is done at around 22,500 kms, the service supervisor checked my car's VIN number in their system.

He later told me that my car's engine doesn't needs the fix. What they usually do is program the ECU to supply lesser fuel and install an air filter that allows less air into the engine.
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Old 1st April 2017, 12:23   #48
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

The state of tune after the diesel gate fix isn't the optimum one for the car. NVH levels are much higher in most cases, performance is down and fuel efficiency is up.

It's like choking the engine (reducing fuel / air ratio) to reduce emissions. In other words they've played around with the volumetric efficiency to save their skins.

Not the best way to do it but who's complaining other than us enthusiasts? 95% of the car owning / driving public wouldn't notice and may not even care less especially as the FE has increased.

And if they aren't feeling smug with this one at VW, they're sure as hell smirking away.

Last edited by AMG Power : 1st April 2017 at 12:43.
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Old 1st April 2017, 22:14   #49
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I am seeing lot of Team bhpians saying that they are not going to send their cars to the ASS for the SW update, but how long can you hold onto that ? At the next regular service, if your service record says that you have not done the update, they will definitely do it no 2 ways about it. From my experience with Skoda 1.5 TDI, I could see the below difference

1. The punch definitely reduced, making me to rev harder post update
2. Low end torque delivery which was already good has become even better
3. Engine noise and clatter especially on a cold start has increased

This is despite going for a highway drive of 200+ km, as work kept me busy for past 5-6 months. But my usual airport runs etc has already given me the cues
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Old 2nd April 2017, 13:19   #50
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I have started getting calls and texts from my dealer to bring by 2.0 TDI Laura for a software update. After reading so much on the loss of power I am a little taken back and would like to delay it as much as possible. I read in another thread that a1.5 yr old Jetta caught fire. I hope that was not because of the software update.
Text from my dealer -
Dear Skoda Customer,

Please Bring Your Skoda Vehicle At Giriraj Motors For Software Updation Which Is Related To Your Vehicle Engine. It's About To Expire So Please Update The Software In Your Vehicle. You Are the Selected Customer From Skoda & It Is Necessary For Your Vehicle

Benefits of the campaign:-

1. Free Software Updation

2. Free General Check Up.

3. Free Cleaning & Washing.

4. Free Gift.

For Appointment Please Contact: 9313511950, 01244762700

T&C Apply. Giriraj Motors
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Old 2nd April 2017, 14:07   #51
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by Dani7766 View Post
Have given my Jetta for second service today. Have told them to get my vehicle back to the previous setting. They are denying loss of power or mileage. They are telling me, it isn't possible to reset to the previous setting. Why don't we all join and fight for our rights. We have been clearly cheated. They've compensated in the US.
Do you have a child? Do you plan for one?

Do you realize that the loss of a few BHP is nothing compared to the pollution your engine wreaks on the environment? Think about the lungs of our children, being battered because of our polluted cities. See this article about Europe. If this is the current state in Europe, imagine the scale of the mess here in India:
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-nox-emissions

Quote:
Ninety-seven percent of all modern diesel cars emit more toxic nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollution on the road than the official limit, according to the most comprehensive set of data yet published, with a quarter producing at least six times more than the limit.

Surprisingly, the tiny number of models that did not exceed the standard were mostly Volkswagens, the carmaker whose cheating of diesel emissions tests which emerged last year sparked the scandal. Experts said the new results show that clean diesel cars can be made but that virtually all manufacturers have failed to do so.
Mind you, I'm putting my money where my mouth is - I'm trading in my Swift diesel for a petrol AT. The biggest compromise is being made in the sheer fun to drive quotient, so that my pollution footprint is lesser.

I would request you to consider sticking with the fresh map!
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Old 2nd April 2017, 14:51   #52
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Quote:
Originally Posted by v_2rahjo View Post
Dear Skoda Customer,

Please Bring Your Skoda Vehicle At Giriraj Motors For Software Updation Which Is Related To Your Vehicle Engine. It's About To Expire So Please Update The Software In Your Vehicle. You Are the Selected Customer From Skoda & It Is Necessary For Your Vehicle

Benefits of the campaign:-

1. Free Software Updation

2. Free General Check Up.

3. Free Cleaning & Washing.

4. Free Gift.

For Appointment Please Contact: 9313511950, 01244762700

T&C Apply. Giriraj Motors
Hahaha Software is about to expire? That is crooked!
Free prefix does work for the general un/mis-informed public to lure them in.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 16:33   #53
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by nidhinsarath View Post
My 2014 VW Polo HL 1.5 TDI underwent the software update last week and my observations are
1. A slight drop in power. That sudden rush has dropped slightly. Now it's almost a linear power delivery.
2. The gear indicator asks for an up shift at lower rpms which was not there before. But the downshift is not changed.
3. Tractor sound has increased marginally
4. Mileage is showing a slight increase by 1-1.5kmpl.
Overall I'm not that satisfied with the upgrade except for the mileage.
Just got back from grand capitol auto skoda wazirpur Delhi with my rapid. its a 2015 1.5 ambition plus. Spoke to SA yesterday after reading this thread. he said the same thing its only version sserial number update, and they are adding an additional filter in front of the air filter. No remapping!!

However my experience on the way back from the service center:

1. Clatter is louder especially in nuetral and 1st gear(SA said clatter will normalize after1000to1200kms of driving after the update)

2. engine orders upshift way too soon- 3rd gear at 22 km/hr, 4th at 35-38km/hr, and 5th at 47-49km/hr.

3. Didnt get a good run, but FE seems to have dropped slightly

4. wont give me that explosion of torque that used to be at 1500-1800 rpm. that kick now comes in between 2000-2500 rpm.

5 And gave me a complimentary car care cleaning kit, worth Rs.1200. wheather it relly is complementary or to be taken with a pinch of salt remains to be seen.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 18:28   #54
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post

Mind you, I'm putting my money where my mouth is - I'm trading in my Swift diesel for a petrol AT. The biggest compromise is being made in the sheer fun to drive quotient, so that my pollution footprint is lesser.

I would request you to consider sticking with the fresh map!
If you are so concerned about the environment, why have a car ? Stick to Public transport & bicycle ?

And if you need to have a car - buy a E2O or Vertio Electric ?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 20:26   #55
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
If you are so concerned about the environment, why have a car ? Stick to Public transport & bicycle ?

And if you need to have a car - buy a E2O or Vertio Electric ?
Ethan, why so snarky? Can we please lay off the hyperbole, instead staying within the realm of the realistic?

If any of those options were to be realistic, I would've done it. I'm simply asing Dani to consider the long term impact of his decision, and am not asking him to adopt an unrealistic impractical path. It is this - is he okay living with a delayed boost and a 10-15% lower torque for a 7-8x reduction in his car's NOx pollution or not? I just want him to weigh it consciously.

PS: Even my current car is being replaced just one year short of the year it would be de-registered. Else I would happily run it for much longer.
PPS: Just curious - what is your opinion about the air quality issues in our metros? http://aqicn.org/city/india/bangalore/peenya/ is an example for BLR. its not as bad as Delhi but not healthy either.

@V_2Rahjo: Please consider the same tradeoff yourself.

Last edited by phamilyman : 2nd April 2017 at 20:27.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 20:35   #56
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Ethan, why so snarky? Can we please lay off the hyperbole, instead staying within the realm of the realistic?

If any of those options were to be realistic, I would've done it. I'm simply asing Dani to consider the long term impact of his decision, and am not asking him to adopt an unrealistic impractical path. It is this - is he okay living with a delayed boost and a 10-15% lower torque for a 7-8x reduction in his car's NOx pollution or not? I just want him to weigh it consciously.

PS: Even my current car is being replaced just one year short of the year it would be de-registered. Else I would happily run it for much longer.
PPS: Just curious - what is your opinion about the air quality issues in our metros? http://aqicn.org/city/india/bangalore/peenya/ is an example for BLR. its not as bad as Delhi but not healthy either.

@V_2Rahjo: Please consider the same tradeoff yourself.
Sorry if i came across as rude or snarky - guess the emotions took control of me. I am a little frustrated at people trying to tell the cheated owners what to do - instead why dont you tell VW to own up and buyback the cars ? Why should owners suffer for a mistake of VW and govt's incompetence ?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 22:16   #57
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Do you have a child? Do you plan for one?
Quote:
Do you realize that the loss of a few BHP is nothing compared to the pollution your engine wreaks on the environment?
By this logic whole management of VW should have been in Jail as until this fix all of these cars were polluting higher than approved/ specified. If these meet our emission norms then why are they doing remaps? If someone has paid for X Bhp or torque, & that figures are now different, there are no reasons why manufacturers should not be penalised and booked for cheating.

I think owners who have some legal background or are in this profession should take VW India to courts. SC in India has come out with some landmark judgments and if this matter is pursued collectively it will surely yield to compensation/ buyback.

Last edited by Turbanator : 2nd April 2017 at 22:22.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 01:10   #58
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Push the car and you will feel the engine being restricted in some sort of way, It isn't pulling anywhere close to where it was before. Driveability becomes worst in 3rd gear, from 2800 RPM in 3rd gear, the car seems to progress like a Naturally Aspirated engine which has a CVT Gearbox!! The progress is slow and the engine feels restricted, The acceleration has become really really linear and from 3rd gear onwards, there isn't any kind of turbo pull felt. If i had to put a number of the HP that I feel the car has lost, it would be somewhere around 10-15 HP!
No wonder what i felt was true, I knew it there was no 2 ways about it, Even though very few people here on forums said they don't find any difference, I could never believe it, Thats how smartly VW has detuned the engine, Shooting a rough guess, I would say 90% of the folks in India won't find any difference in the car post the update, They have made sure the lower end still has the same grunt, They know how most cars are used in India, In city traffic and even on highways speeds around 100 kph in the highest gear, Only an enthusiasts would know and realise what has the car become post the update, And what does VW do to its owners here in India? Give them a couple of bottles to polish the tyres & the car, Like really? I plonked 20 big ones to buy the car that drove the way my test drive car did, I am glad that the truth is now in front of everyone, GTO & I did try to get to the root of it, But unfortunately we couldn't as the lack of proper 4 wheel dyno.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 10:13   #59
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
the truth is now in front of everyone, GTO & I did try to get to the root of it, But unfortunately we couldn't as the lack of proper 4 wheel dyno.
Technically is it not possible to make a copy of the ECU map before it is taken to the dealer for the official fix and afterwords once they do the fix / remap, the old ECU map is reloaded to get the stock performance levels?

Not sure if this is ethical / not ethical, yet ECU remaps have been widely done across regions and territories and if someone wants to maintain the stock condition (pre VW fix); she / he should get it back in all probability.


Last edited by i74js : 3rd April 2017 at 10:15.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:00   #60
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
Technically is it not possible to make a copy of the ECU map before it is taken to the dealer for the official fix and afterwords once they do the fix / remap, the old ECU map is reloaded to get the stock performance levels?

Not sure if this is ethical / not ethical, yet ECU remaps have been widely done across regions and territories and if someone wants to maintain the stock condition (pre VW fix); she / he should get it back in all probability.

The ECU has two memories, the program memory that stores the program that performs ECU functions, and an EEPROM that stores the maps and other information like immobilizer code etc.

If it is just the map that has been changed, then yes, it should be possible to backup/restore the map as it would have been stored in the EEPROM.

However, in this case, I think the ECU software also should have been updated. If VW had implemented some logic that detects a dyno run and switch to a different map, then this would be part of the program memory, and they would have changed this program. I doubt if backup/restore of this program memory is as easy as the EEPROM. This would require some serious hacking.
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