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Old 29th March 2017, 23:00   #1
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Default Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

After a lot of debate around whether the SW fix from VW causes any adverse effects on power delivery and fuel consumption, a Swedish car magazine has performed in depth testing of 10 cars before and after the SW update.

In their testing, they found the 2.0 TDI engines to have lost peak power, low - mid range torque, and fuel economy.
In comparison, the 1.6 TDI's maintained their power outputs, but suffered a shift in the torque curve for the worse.

Check out the dyno curves and the measured power and torque numbers in the link below. Both the 2.0 TDI & 1.6 TDI show a massive change in torque curves before and after the SW update.

http://teknikensvarld.se/dieselgate-...er-fix-456111/




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MODS: I decided to create a new thread instead of merging with the old thread discussing the SW update as this is the first time somebody has done a systematic testing of the SW update on a large scale.

Last edited by d3mon : 29th March 2017 at 23:04.
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Old 30th March 2017, 01:22   #2
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Default re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. It will be interesting to see what VW does next. If it is going to do anything at all. The concept of class action doesnít really exist as far as Iím aware in Europe. But we have seen consumer type of organisations battling big corporations successfully before. Itís just a very lengthy process unfortunately.

When I look at VW, their current results, market share and outlook, this whole diesel gate doesnít, by and large, seem to affect them by much.

I think it was Clarksson who said a few months ago, no matter what diesel gate, a little bit less fuel effective, maybe not as green as you thought, but a VW Golf is probably still the best all round family sedan in itís segment. And that statement probably holds true for many of their other models.

Sure, there will be people who will never buy a VW again. But for plenty of people it will still be a really good car, no matter what. So yes, there was a public outcry, but very few people (globally) seem to be adjusting their buying habits.

But I know I would feel pretty done over by VW if I owned one!

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Old 30th March 2017, 09:48   #3
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Default re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

From the top of my head, VW have been impacted as follows

1: Loss of capital reserves used as compensation
2: Loss of US car sales not that the US was a major market in the first place
3: Acceleration of its electric car strategy necessiating cuts in other investments. Witness that Tata collab, pull out from Motor sport etc.

As a VW owner, do I feel done over ? No - my polluting car is less polluting than many around me here in India. I might feel done if they screw the remap up.

Last edited by navin : 30th March 2017 at 12:33. Reason: spelling
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:29   #4
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
In their testing, they found the 2.0 TDI engines to have lost peak power, low - mid range torque, and fuel economy.

In comparison, the 1.6 TDI's maintained their power outputs, but suffered a shift in the torque curve for the worse.
Thanks for sharing! This just confirmed on paper what owners have been complaining about. Whoever got the update says "the punch is gone". Here's one such forum post (there are many more if you search):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Push the car and you will feel the engine being restricted in some sort of way, It isn't pulling anywhere close to where it was before. Driveability becomes worst in 3rd gear, from 2800 RPM in 3rd gear, the car seems to progress like a Naturally Aspirated engine which has a CVT Gearbox!! The progress is slow and the engine feels restricted, The acceleration has become really really linear and from 3rd gear onwards, there isn't any kind of turbo pull felt. If i had to put a number of the HP that I feel the car has lost, it would be somewhere around 10-15 HP!
We tried to get to the bottom of it. Alas, the lack of a 4-wheel dyno in Mumbai put water on our Saturday morning investigation - full post:

Last edited by GTO : 30th March 2017 at 10:31.
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:45   #5
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

What about the 1.5 engines? Those were 'upgraded' to 110hp on paper, but are those engines really as fast as compared to the earlier version?

I drove the Ameo DSG recently, and it surely felt slower than the old 1.6 Vento which I remember driving on the same road, even though it has more power on paper, and definitely less weight. But I can't form a comparison with the earlier 1.5 since I only drove that car in traffic conditions once earlier.

Last edited by GTO : 30th March 2017 at 11:05. Reason: Typo
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:04   #6
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

This is exactly what i believed would happen. As a marine engineer I have a good knowledge of engines. You cannot remap an engine without altering its power/torque characteristics.

The VW Downtown people have been regularly calling me to get the remap done on my Passat. They are obviously being pressured by VW. I have asked them to get a statement from VW stating the before & after power/torque.

The Service Manager tells me that there is no change in the power/torque; however he has not been able to get me the statement from VW - because VW cannot give the statement.

At times, I feel cheated by VW. Can one do anything??
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:08   #7
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
What about the 1.5 engines? Those were 'upgraded' to 110hp on paper, but are those engines really as fast as compared to the earlier version?

I drove the Ameo DSG recently, and it surely felt slower than the old 1.6 Vento which I remember driving on the same road, even though it has more power on paper, and defenitely less weight. But I can't form a comparison with the earlier 1.5 since I only drove that car in traffic conditions once earlier.
AFAIK, 1.5 engine was developed for India only and therefore no report on this engine from the Swedish outfit.

There were reports that the 1.5 engine has bigger turbocharger (link) resulting in 110 hp. But max power and torque figures cannot always suggest if the car is faster. As the Swedish outfit rightly pointed out, the power and torque graphs matter the most. Many people here have compared the older 1.6 engine with 1.5 and the general consensus seems to be that 1.5 having the same power and torque figures is less fun to drive than the older 1.6
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:16   #8
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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AFAIK, 1.5 engine was developed for India only and therefore no report on this engine from the Swedish outfit.
True. That I do understand. I'm just hoping someone here can throw more light on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Immix View Post
Many people here have compared the older 1.6 engine with 1.5 and the general consensus seems to be that 1.5 having the same power and torque figures is less fun to drive than the older 1.6
Totally agree to the comparison with the earlier 1.6

However my question, if I didn't make it clear earlier, is about the 105hp 1.5 diesel as against the new 'post emission scandal' 110hp diesel.

Somehow, the new 110hp car didn't feel like the older ones did, but that could be my feel because I only drove the earlier 1.5L 105hp car only in traffic. But I suspect it's the mid-range on the new 110hp that's less, making it feel 'slower' than earlier. Perhaps someone who has driven these two extensively can correct / confirm my doubts.
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:26   #9
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
However my question, if I didn't make it clear earlier, is about the 105hp 1.5 diesel as against the new 'post emission scandal' 110hp diesel.

Somehow, the new 110hp car didn't feel like the older ones did, but that could be my feel because I only drove the earlier 1.5L 105hp car only in traffic. But I suspect it's the mid-range on the new 110hp that's less, making it feel 'slower' than earlier. Perhaps someone who has driven these two extensively can correct / confirm my doubts.
Slightly OT, but I think the change to bigger turbo coincided with the dieselgate. Just a guess - because VW India themselves had to come up with a solution for the homegrown 1.5 and knowing that the power and torque figures would go down after the software only fix, they may have decided to plonk in the bigger turbo. Now bigger turbo also means increased turbo lag and that's exactly what I have been reading about the 110hp Ameos compared to the 105hp 1.5L Vento and Rapid
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:46   #10
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

Have given my Jetta for second service today. Have told them to get my vehicle back to the previous setting. They are denying loss of power or mileage. They are telling me, it isn't possible to reset to the previous setting. Why don't we all join and fight for our rights. We have been clearly cheated. They've compensated in the US.
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:55   #11
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I own a Polo 1.2 TDI 2011 model, Clocked 76K without major issues.

Yesterday, I got a call from VW Pune( B U Bhandari) regarding a software update. When I inquired about it, I was told that the software update was to fix the ' Scandal Issue '.
I was not aware that 1.2 Tdi would also require a fix.

As I am perfectly happy with whatever 'punch' I get from this engine , I humbly declined the update and stated the reason of 'Lack of Punch' after update. The person over the phone was surprised at this. He said that he was aware of the ' Engine noise increase ' but not of the power loss.

Cheers
ACB

Last edited by coriollis : 30th March 2017 at 11:56. Reason: Typo
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Old 30th March 2017, 12:10   #12
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

VW defrauded their customers and is getting away with it, atleast in India. They are neither paying any regulatory fines nor compensating their customers.

Slightly OT, but relevant in this issue: National Consumer Forum recently ruled that consumers can initiate a class action suit directly in the national forum, without going through state and district forums. This saves a lot of time and prevents delaying tactics. Link

I hope atleast a few of the VW customers file a class action lawsuit and teach them a lesson.

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Old 30th March 2017, 12:58   #13
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

I have been receiving calls and emails from the Audi workshop here to bring my car in for a software update.

I have a 2.0 TDi Q5 and it already isn't all that swift. Judging by the article the update will make my car undriveable for me.

The workshop has promised a free Audi Branded pen drive, so that's one massive reason in favour to get it done

Last edited by GTO : 31st March 2017 at 09:39. Reason: Typo
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Old 30th March 2017, 13:10   #14
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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VW defrauded their customers and is getting away with it, atleast in India. They are neither paying any regulatory fines nor compensating their customers.
I don’t think the customers suffered any loss, but they gained the power of those crude engines.The nation as a whole was the loser due to the high emissions. So, instead of compensating the customers, the company has to pay the fine to the govt which then has to use it to improve the traffic conditions in the country.

A congested traffic system is far more polluting than the 2% vw cars running in India.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 30th March 2017 at 13:34.
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Old 30th March 2017, 13:22   #15
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Default Re: Dyno tested at last! VW's Dieselgate software update

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
The nation as a whole was the loser due to the high emissions.
+1.

Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.

Considering the cars were sold without confirming to the existing emission norms valid during the time of sales, hope the NGT / government takes stricter measures like cancellation of registration for vehicles that are not being updated with the new software that makes these vehicles legally road worthy.

Like Supreme Court noted in a recent verdict - Health of the nation is more important than the commercial interests. If NGT can propose cancellation of diesel vehicles under than 10 years, don't see why they can't go ahead with this! Driving pleasure / trust/ shortchanging etc has to be dealt with VW and it's customers, and the nation does not really need to wait for this!
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