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Old 13th April 2017, 17:23   #16
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Like GM & Fiat in the recent times as you mean?
GM is a strange case. A proper case study on how not to do business in India.

Fiat on the other hand is trying to sell cars as a side business here. Their main business is engines. It will be interesting to see what they will do in the country once demand for their engines falls down.

Lets just say that for HM, we do not have a Before & After pictures of two different cars in the last 15-20 years. Not even a proper facelift of the good old Amby. The Amby was so good that if they had put in efforts to evolve it periodically, it will still pull the strings of our heart and people would buy it.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 13th April 2017 at 17:27.
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Old 13th April 2017, 18:06   #17
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post

Lets just say that for HM, we do not have a Before & After pictures of two different cars in the last 15-20 years. Not even a proper facelift of the good old Amby. The Amby was so good that if they had put in efforts to evolve it periodically, it will still pull the strings of our heart and people would buy it.
I doubt there would have been any takers (apart from enthusiasts) for good old amby, had it been upgraded. The amby was either a cab or a 'sarkari' car. The govt departments have stopped buying vehicle since log, they just hire vehicles on monthly basis. For cabbys it was too oversized to drive in today's crazy traffic conditions. Not to hurt anyone's emotions but I feel that it was a well executed decision to say bye to the legendary amby.

GM, however, could have done wonders with spark and sail hatchbacks, but the non strategic decisions made by the higher ups were proven fatal this brand.
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Old 13th April 2017, 19:44   #18
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
It would be interesting to see how brands have evolved over time, in conjunction with their sales performance and market share -
Adding on to this point. Found the 2005-2008 sales when I dug into one of the older sales threads. As the table below shows, the market has grown from 1.3 million units in 2006 to almost 3 million units in 2016. Did some math to see how different manufacturers gained or contributed to this almost 3 fold growth.


Yearly sales from 2005 ( could not find the tabulated data for 2009 and 10)

How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't-sales200516.jpg

Increase in volume between 2006 and 2016 and how each manufacturer contributed to it.

Name:  sales200516changes.JPG
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  • As the data shows, Maruti has driven 50% of the increase in volume from 2006 to 16. Highly commendable considering the new players that came in and the huge number of models launched in the last 10 years. In line with GTO's analysis on how they have been on the top of their game and quickly reacting to Market dynamics.

  • Hyundai is in distant second place. But as with market share, have managed to contribute 20% to the increase. Together the 2 of them cover 70% of the increase in sales.

  • Mahindra Toyota and Honda have contributed good numbers. As GTO's analysis shows, Mahindra has definitely evolved but maybe not to the extent they would have liked to especially considering the slew of product launches. Honda has the numbers, but again that is more due to the fact that they launched more of the mass market models. Same with Toyota. Unable to evolve beyond the SUV/MUV space.

  • Renault courtesy the Kwid have managed to come in and contribute a major chunk in sales. Only new entrant making a mark that too due to one product.

  • VW's contribution is disappointing. On a downward slide after a big bang launch. Same with Ford. Not able to capitalize on the growth.

  • Tata is the biggest loser, the market has nearly tripled and in spite of that Tata has lost numbers. As GTO's analysis mentioned, the last 10 years have not been good for Tata. Hopefully with the new products we will see a turn around when we do this analysis next time.

  • GM, Skoda and Fiat have all taken a step backward. Especially GM. As the analysis indicates- evolving backwards. Same for Fiat. Skoda is slightly better but had the opportunity to do much much better.

  • The Big Germans have had a good time. Although the numbers are not big, one can see how they have grown and evolved in India from the numbers perspective too.

Overall we can see that brands like Maruti, Hyundai Mahindra and Renault have evolved both from a brand perspective as well as from a numbers perspective. Honda has evolved based on numbers, but has lost some of the USPs associated with it.

Brands like GM, VW, Skoda, Tata, Fiat, Ford and Nissan will rue the fact that they have had to sit and watch the growth from the sidelines without any meaningful contribution. Only Tata has got itself on a path to drop its old baggage and evolve into a new entity.

Note: Some of the numbers may not be exact. Audi numbers are from 2015 and I did not see Force numbers called out.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 13th April 2017 at 19:48.
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Old 13th April 2017, 21:45   #19
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Sustaining in market with number one position is not easy thing. Kudos to maruti for keeping up their position
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Old 13th April 2017, 22:02   #20
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Sustaining in market with number one position is not easy thing. Kudos to maruti for keeping up their position

Its a deadlock. You sell more cars, you open more service centres. But for selling more cars you should have more service centres.

Maruti and Hyundai are the oldest players in the post liberalisation scenario. First they encashed the increased purchasing power of a middle class indian, now, with a wide service network, they are also targeting premium segments. Others are going opposite. They launch premium cars, then they realize the market's potential of budget cars, then they launch budget cars. Public doesn't trust cheap cars from premium brands( they will rob us in spares) e.g. ford. And the funny thing is that they also loose the few premium customers they had before because of this new budget car brand image.



25th post. Valhalla
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Old 13th April 2017, 22:06   #21
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Default How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Not only in terms of exterior and interior design, but the evolution of leading car makers in offering class-leading features across their models is also phenomenal. The desirability factor in mass-market cars has gone up several notches due to this factor alone. 5-6 years back, stuff such as DRLs, touchscreen Head Units, automatic climate control, sunroofs, projector headlamps, etc., were restricted either to high-end luxury cars, or to a select few such as Hyundais (i20 onwards).

IMO, it should be the Tata that should be credited for bringing this evolution to the industry in the budget category.

Zest offered Turbo charged engines, multi-drive modes, DRLs, Projector Head lamps, HK Touch screen ICE, awesome cabin audio setup with 6+ speakers, Dual air bags, ABS and alloys standard across trims. Fit, finish and quality of interiors jumped several notches higher alerting the leader Maruti !!
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Old 13th April 2017, 23:20   #22
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One thing I am trying to understand is to capture local market you need main head quarters support. As GTO said, hyundai and maruti have that freedom I believe. I think more than brand, it's the weird decisions which are creating a wrong move and setting a bad impression of brand in market. In a country like India, first impressions are best impressions. Honda which is now trying to understand their mistakes and wants to concentrate on premium products hereafter is one of the classic example to quote.

Last edited by GTO : 14th April 2017 at 10:15. Reason: Typo
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Old 14th April 2017, 01:09   #23
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

As a die hard Honda loyalist - it is hard to swallow the lump in my throat about the way this fabulous brand has been handled in India.

For those who could not afford the expensive Germans (yes I mean you too VW and cousin Skoda), I thought the Honda's really were the only option to experience a drivers car and not break the bank!

I've driven a Honda City 1.5 EXI for 17 years and she is still my daily driver.

The car has delivered above and beyond what we expected of it, especially when considers that this was a cheap Honda built for ASEAN markets.

My wife drives a Brio that is 4 years old (40,000km) and the car has been a treat to own, fun to drive, reliable, cheap to maintain and the space and packaging in this tiny car is truly brilliant.

I pray that Honda finds a way back from the darkness - I love the new Civic (though the graceful Honda designs of the mid 90's and early 2000's seem to be lost forever).

I had the chance to spend a fair amount of time in the HRV while travelling abroad and I think it was a big mistake for Honda not to bring it to India.

There really isnt another company in the world like HONDA - ASIMO, the Hondajet (which automobile company in the world decides to make an aeroplane and then pursues it for more than a decade and ends up with an aircraft, that straightway is the best in its class?)

Dear Honda, I've missed you, it looks like some imposters in management were running the show in India.

Bring the Civic with that Turbo Petrol, Bring in the HRV (petrol & diesel) and the new CRV (ditto), can we have a more realistically priced and better featured Accord ? and please pretty please can the next generation City be closer to the Civic than the Jazz and please plonk in that 1.5 petrol in the Jazz and WRV?

All will be forgiven
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Old 14th April 2017, 07:18   #24
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
It would be interesting to see how brands have evolved over time, in conjunction with their sales performance and market share -

Attachment 1629370
Going by the Manufacturer Market Share Chart, I'm surprised to see Chevrolet doing better than Nissan, Skoda, and even Fiat!
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Old 14th April 2017, 08:49   #25
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Excellent thread. It's astonishing to see the changes is the car market over the years. Honestly I am a big critic of Maruti's design and build quality, but their ability to retain the market share and launch successful products year in year out is something worth applauding. And kudos to Hyundai for maintaining their position in the market. The fluidic design strategy has done wonders for the company.
It's very sad to see the sorry state of the European biggies in India and I really hope they update their line up and launch the products that are on par with their European products.
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Old 14th April 2017, 09:29   #26
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

Awesome thread! Clearly shows the growth, or rather lack of growth of our market as a whole. So many manufacturers, but only a handful made an impact.

Among the mass-market brands Suzuki and Hyundai have really grown over the last 10 years, more so for Hyundai from a product portfolio point-of-view. Suzuki's growth is in their comfort zone and clearly maintaining the lead in the sales chart, but still not in all the segments as their Korean counterpart.

In the luxury side, Mercedes has shown creativity and flair with their product range and the result clearly shows!
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Old 14th April 2017, 09:49   #27
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

Full marks to Mahindra, Hyundai and GM.
These brands have transformed themselves in the Indian market.

Mahindra- from Jeeps to Boleros to Scorpios to XUV 500. It's not the perfect product, but the XUV is damn competent.

Hyundai-
have evolved from being the maker of only two products- Santro and Accent to a great variety of products. Maruti still doesn't have an answer to the Creta, Elantra, Tucson and Santa Fe. I want to see the sales figures of the new Verna. (which will be launched in late 2017 or early 2018)

If anything, I find Hyundai's reluctance to bring turbo petrols to India a little strange. Also, I think Hyundai can afford to bring a well-priced hybrid Sonata to enhance their premium image.

GM- For showing us how not to do business. GM simply lost it from a position of dominance and have been reduced to nothing. Optra, Tavera and Aveo owners loved their car.

Toyota can just bring the models sold in SE Asian markets and easily add volumes. Yet, they just sleep. I wish to see some small Hybrids in the next 4-5 years.

In search of volumes, Honda lost the plot. Honda cars were 'desirable.' They should follow Toyota's model of maximum profit per car unless they launch good cars to compete with Maruti/Hyundai.

MSILs build quality is simply not up to the mark of Hyundai. Otherwise, they're just growing too fast.

Tata seems to have finally woken up in the last half decade.

Time for Renault to get serious and not sell any more Dacia products.
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Old 14th April 2017, 10:03   #28
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

Well written GTO!! As always...

There has been various upsides and downsides in the auto industry over the years. However, to put things into perspective, only three auto majors have shown their commitment to India-
1) Maruti
2) Hyundai
3) Mercedes

Notable companies who have either underestimated or were over confident in their approach for India were:
1) GM
2) Honda
3) BMW
4) Toyota
5) Nissan

And lastly the company who never bothered:
1)Fiat

Obviosly, in between we find some companies that have tried to change their perceived image-Tata, Mahindra. Ford and succeeded to a certain level.
It is important to stick to the core.
Though Rush has captured most of the aspects, I would elaborate some of my observations:

In the last decade, some major misses are as below:

1) Ford lost its driving dynamics. From the enthralling Fiesta 1.6 S and Ikon 1.6NXt to the comparatively sedate Aspire.
2)GM has lost the plot completely. And its time to pack up. From the segment leader Cruze and the competitive Beat in the Mid 2000s to some laid back SAIC cars now, nothing has gone right from them.
3)Fiat is happy being the engine manufacturer. Status quo for them in the last decade
4)Hondahas lost its premiumness. The new Honda City is underwhelming. I would rate its reliability about 7/10. Earlier, it could easily have been a 9-9.5/10.
5)Nissan has rightly lost Hoover. Unfortunately, things were still a downhill. No new products or striking facelifts.
6)Toyota has lost face in the hatch and entry level sedan space. The mighty T notwithstanding could not salvage adequate nos. Fortuner and Innova are good wins though.
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Old 14th April 2017, 10:28   #29
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

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On the auto industry's clock, 5 - 10 years is frankly not a long time. Heck, it takes 5 years on an average to develop a single new car from the ground up. Still, it's fascinating to see how some car manufacturers have evolved in this time span. Just as well, since the Indian car market has also grown in size & maturity over the last 10 years.
This one reminded me of the thread you had started earlier on the core values of each car manufacturer (and why they should play to their strengths).
Thread: (Why car companies shouldn't move away from their core values)
These two threads taken together show which car companies have gotten the formula right for the Indian market, i.e. evolving while playing to their strengths.

I have feeling that this thread is one for the books, one that we'll keep coming back to . Thank you!
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Old 14th April 2017, 11:28   #30
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Default Re: How some car manufacturers have evolved in just 5 - 10 years...and some haven't

Brilliant thread. Laughed at the comparison of Honda's strategy to a machine gun.

Indian market is cut throat. Divided into 4 parts :

• Kings > Maruti, Hyundai

Don't excel at anything (except A.S.S.) but don't suck at anything either. The all rounders of the market.

• Egoists > Honda, Toyota

Not getting any real innovation into their products but pricing is obnoxious. Think their brand image can help them dictate any price.

• Hard-workers > Tata, Mahindra

Their never give up attitude is commendable. Innovations and what not! Especially Tata. Truly making India proud. After sales still has to improve. Ironic considering India is their home country.

• Take it or leave it attitude > GM, Skoda

One is adamant on selling old products. Another launches new products but doesn't care at all about customer support.

• Ford is the one which is neutral. Make good cars and atleast try to better their after sales.

Our market is quite complicated. But competition is a blessing. You innovate and keep up with times or you die. Love this dynamic behaviour.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 14th April 2017 at 11:34.
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