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Old 23rd June 2017, 01:41   #691
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I completely agree with bhaskaracs and reddevilgautam

I have mentioned this earlier too - Jeep can not afford to go anything above 10% over creta
All those who are saying that they haven't compromised on quality - I just have one question guys - should this come as a surprise? Or should we not expect good quality as a basic norm?

Hyundai enjoys a market share only second to maruti and has been notorious with pricing their sub par products by giving great quality feel on what can be seen and felt, and dismal quality just below the skin. Their vehicles are feature packed but are ridiculous in terms of reliability and long term ownership.
All the hyundai cars we've owned have aged quiet horribly after the initial 3-4 years. With the sheet metal rusting (doors) and literally having holes due to corrosion, electronics malfunction within the first couple of years itself and quiet a few severe quality concerns.

Where as I also have a 6+years old punto which still hasn't had any major problem. Only problem so far has been the dealership. Not the vehicle.

We all know punto was priced lot better than the flimsily built i20 and still it never managed to get even 1/10th of sales figures.

Now please try and understand, FCA can not afford any failure of their products in india else not only will they wind up their retail operations, but will also be forced to shut down their manufacturing units in which they've recently invested handsome amounts.

Compass if not wrong would be atleast 25% more expensive than renegade and if I'm not wrong renegade range would infact be in the 10-12 lacs bracket.

Keeping that in mind as well as jeeps over all strategy, they wouldn't go much above the ridiculously priced creta just because they are giving quality which runs much deeper than the skin.

If FCA plans to sell 2000-2500 vehicles a month with their wafer thin dealer and after sales network, don't you think they will price it as aggressively as possible?

While one may argue that world over it competes with Tucson, but we all know how successful has Tucson been in our market - right? Needless to say Jeep can't afford taking that risk.

And I would like to remind everyone here again, Jeep enjoys a huge advantage with 85%+ local sourcing - making the acquisition of parts cheaper by atleast 40-60% - which would simply mean the production cost coming down close to 40%

With the GST coming in, the locally assembled vehicles will anyways see a price correction of anything between 5-10%, where as the vehicles which are made with knockdown and imported kits will unfortunately miss out on that advantage too.

All in all basic cost of production expected to comedown for Jeep Compass as compared to Tucson should be atleast 30%.

So a hyundai dealer sells a Tucson for let's say 20 lacs with their margin of 7-8%. Cost of acquisition for them would be roughly about 18.5 lacs.

18.5 being the basic cost of Tucson will make similarly equipped Jeep Compass to be in the price range of 14 lacs (for the dealer). Add the dealer margin of 8-9% (I'm sure FCA must've offered better margins to the dealers - hence the complete overhaul all across the country)

So a price range starting a few shades below 16 lacs doesn't seem a far fetched idea to me atleast.



OT : we all know most of the automobile companies keep a close eye our forums, and might consider deciding the price of their vehicles based on the basic sentiments here. So let's think before we type as we might make them commit a horrible mistake of pricing their products in the range where people would always want to buy their vehicles, but wouldn't buy them at the last moment.

FCA guys - if you are reading this - please do not price the vehicle where you would end up regretting it. I'm sure you might've seen lot of excitement here with your punto abarth and avventura abarth editions along with how people felt about the pricing, but I'm pretty sure your sales figures have shown you a different side altogether.
We sincerely hope you guys do well, but not at our cost. Price your upcoming products well, train your dealers to respect the current and prospective owners well and we all can assure you a new successful innings in the Indian market.

Cheers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
I am surprised people are saying Compass is similar in size to Creta. By that logic, so is Tucson. So, why is it priced so many lakhs more than Creta.

Several reasons

1. Tucson is definitely much bigger than creta. And needless to say it has more features.
2. It has more imported components in it as compared to creta. Making it a bit more expensive to assemble/produce than the creta - all thanks to our tax structure.
3. Too close to the creta price and they would've had the cannibalism effect with their two vehicles which are supposed to be in different segments.
4. Any idea on the sales figures of creta vs Tucson?

The last point will make us all understand which segment is Jeep targeting the compass in. As far as I know they have an installed capacity of 5000 odd vehicles per month, with 50-60% for local sales while 40-50% will be for exports. Making a monthly average sales target of 2500+ vehicles.

Putting it right in the creta territory (with about half of its target, but still 2.5 times the sales figures of Tucson)

Last edited by navin : 20th July 2017 at 11:28. Reason: spelling
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Old 23rd June 2017, 02:16   #692
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
I have mentioned this earlier too - Jeep can not afford to go anything above 10% over creta
All those who are saying that they haven't compromised on quality - I just have one question guys - should this come as a surprise? Or should we not expect good quality as a basic norm?

Now please try and understand, FCA can not afford any failure of their products in india

If FCA plans to sell 2000-2500 vehicles a month with their wafer thin dealer and after sales network, don't you think they will price it as aggressively as possible?

And I would like to remind everyone here again, Jeep enjoys a huge advantage with 85%+ local sourcing

OT : we all know most of the automobile companies keep a close eye our forums, and might consider deciding the price of their vehicles based on the basic sentiments here. So let's think before we type as we might make them commit a horrible mistake of pricing their products in the range where people would always want to buy their vehicles, but wouldn't buy them at the last moment.
+1
We as buyers have now become rather accustomed to paying through our noses for seemingly fancy products from the big 3 or big 4. Whether it is Creta or City or Innova or Fortuner, when it comes to vehicles in the 15L and above category, people are just not willing to look beyond them and happily pay ridiculous amounts of money without realizing how much the product is realistically worth.

You can say the nothing succeeds like success and that these vehicles sell because people have accepted them at their prices. But the hard fact is that all of them are hugely overpriced. I said it when the Hexa was launched and I will say it again. The inflated prices of these cars is a bubble. It is only a matter of time before someone comes up with a genuine high quality product for $$ we will call "shock prices". The premium segment is ripe for disruption. FCA seems to have the right product. They now have to find it in itself to make the right calls.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 09:01   #693
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
We all know punto was priced lot better than the flimsily built i20 and still it never managed to get even 1/10th of sales figures.
So, what's the guarantee that pricing the Compass so low will work this time? I don't expect/want the guys at Jeep to stoop so low to sell few cars at a price they can't make any profit. At least they will keep the dignity of the brand Jeep by not giving a chance to people to compare it with the Creta. I know lot of people are buying Creta but that doesn't make it any more premium than the S-cross IMO, i.e.

Many people in our country (there are exceptions of course) don't care about the build quality, pedigree, off roading etc. All they want is a car that 'looks' big.

That said, starting around 16-17L won't be bad. Regardless of the starting price, i don't thing think will ever see four digit sales figures a month.

Last edited by prakash_ajp : 23rd June 2017 at 09:04.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 09:20   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
So, what's the guarantee that pricing the Compass so low will work this time? I don't expect/want the guys at Jeep to stoop so low to sell few cars at a price they can't make any profit. At least they will keep the dignity of the brand Jeep by not giving a chance to people to compare it with the Creta. I know lot of people are buying Creta but that doesn't make it any more premium than the S-cross IMO, i.e.

Many people in our country (there are exceptions of course) don't care about the build quality, pedigree, off roading etc. All they want is a car that 'looks' big.

That said, starting around 16-17L won't be bad. Regardless of the starting price, i don't thing think will ever see four digit sales figures a month.

Interesting take on that.

We aren't expecting them to stoop too low, loose their dignity or not make profits.

All we expect is that they shouldn't get over ambitious in pricing their vehicles. They have a long way to go before they start commanding a premium for their products.

The punto didn't do well initially because people felt that the interior quality wasn't at par with the i20. When they overhauled it and came out with the evo - they far excelled in the interior quality but the mindset was never changed. People found enough reasons not buy their products and chose inferior products while paying a premium.

Whether we like it or not - we live in a world of perception. Most of the buyers don't read our forums, and nor do they do extensive research like us. They simply observe which is the most seen car on the road in the segment they want to buy - and end up finalising it. Believe it or not - I've heard many a times - "itne logo ne li hai - must be a great product".
For eg. Swift, dzire, innova, creta, baleno, etc.

Needless to say these vehicles are the hot cakes even in the used car market.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 10:00   #695
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Lot of excitement on this thread and thanks to all enthusiasts who contributed to this healthy discussion. I think we have seen similar excitement during Creta, S Cross and Hexa launches. We enthusiasts always create lot of buzz for well engineered products.
Aggressive pricing doesn't always guarantee a success in the market. At the same time inflated pricing by less popular brands to make the product Dead On Arrival (may even brand too). FCA should sell more jeeps in the initial days and get a brand recognition among non enthusiasts. They can increase the profit margins once they fix all the initial niggles of the product as well as after sales support. Based on my little knowledge, Compass price should be starting at mid variant price of Creta and ending around mid variant price of Tucson.

My only suggestion to FCA is to price Compass sensibly, don't go overboard and put a inflated price tag (ex. City, Creta, Tucson and Tiguan) and regret later.

P.S: I am looking for a car in ~20L bracket, hence Compass is on my Radar.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 10:03   #696
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
1. Tucson is definitely much bigger than creta.
Name:  Compass.jpg
Views: 16830
Size:  60.0 KB

Going in circles, so I'll just leave the numbers for you.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 10:29   #697
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
I don't expect/want the guys at Jeep to stoop so low to sell few cars at a price they can't make any profit. At least they will keep the dignity of the brand Jeep by not giving a chance to people to compare it with the Creta.
What has stooping got to do with sticker price? Or brand dignity? Why are these terms even coming into a price discussion? By your logic, Jeep is losing its dignity daily compared to, say, Mercedez Benz! And Mercedez is stooping low compared to Ferrari!

This has been one of the pet theme in this thread. Nobody is saying it costs more to build a compass. Everybody is saying compass is not in the same class as creta and hence it should be priced high. Class == Price. If you cannot see the gross flow of un-reason in this logic, then I cannot make you. Creta is overpriced by 2 lacs. So, the real starting price of creta should have been 11 lacs. Given all the localization of Jeep, why cannot they price compass at, say, 12.5 lacs?

Last edited by ashlil : 23rd June 2017 at 10:30. Reason: typo
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Old 23rd June 2017, 10:42   #698
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Attachment 1650499

Going in circles, so I'll just leave the numbers for you.
Are those Jeep Compass numbers correct? I thought Compass was smaller at 4398 mm in length, right between Creta and Tucson.

source: http://scrolltoday.com/fca-india-ope...ass-suv-india/

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...ation/58941966

http://indianautosblog.com/2017/06/2...l-specs-271335
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Old 23rd June 2017, 11:02   #699
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

This is going to be FIAT's second innings, and if they have to get it right this time, they have to price it well. No matter what the size is, how heavy it is and how much profit they want to make per car, they have to price it well. Tucson territory will not bring volumes, so a price point slightly above the Creta is what they should be looking at. There is a big vacuum there at the moment, and it is up to FIAT to tap into it.

ps: When the first FIAT came, the name was already synonymous with the Premier Padmini. The brand name didn't bring the air of a foren brand and hence might have hurt FIAT a bit. Now in this second innings, they come with Jeep which is again synonymous with Mahindra here. Yes, the scene is better than in 2001, but I wonder whether people here would really treat Jeep as a desirable brand.

Last edited by navin : 20th July 2017 at 11:28.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 11:09   #700
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlil View Post
So, the real starting price of creta should have been 11 lacs. Given all the localization of Jeep, why cannot they price compass at, say, 12.5 lacs?
So 1.5L extra is the cost you are willing to pay for -

1. Bigger vehicle.
2. 2L engine over 1.6 / 1.4 VVT + Turbo engine over 1.6 VTVT.
3. All wheel disc brakes standard.

4. Frequency selective damping.
5. Safety features like ESC, Traction Control, Dynamic Steering Torque, Hill Start Assist (HSA), and Panic Brake Assist standard.
6. Electric parking brake.

7. 225/60 R17 wheels (steel) + tyres. Creta has 205/65 R16 except on SX(o), though alloys.
8. Better build.
9. Better finishes obtained using more advanced techniques like laser cutting etc.

10. Independent rear suspension.
11. 70% body panels made out of High Tensile Steel, wheras only 50% of the frame has HTS in Creta and panels are normal steel.

And similar features. Both starting 1.6 Creta SX and Compass Sport has -
- No push button start
- Both have 5 inch touchscreen units.
- Electric fold mirrors.

Infact, not even extra - As you say it should be priced at par with Creta since Creta is already overpriced. Looks to me like mechanicals are not being valued these days, and as long as two cars have similar size and comparable looks and similar touch screen sizes, both should be priced same.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 23rd June 2017 at 11:36.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 11:34   #701
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Probably the first car to be discussed in such a wide price change, 12.5L - 32L.
And with 12.5L, we have entered the territory of Ecosport and Brezza 1.3MJD(on road price). What next?!

With this kind of expectation, this is really going to be a tough one for FCA/Jeep to price Compass.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 11:41   #702
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It is unrealistic to expect compass to start at Ecosport/Brezza price. Perhaps that will be best left to Renegade or its equivalent. After all why should mass market be left out of the Jeep bandwagon?
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Old 23rd June 2017, 11:52   #703
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Bang on! You have brought out the differences so clearly and why Compass deserves a segment higher than Creta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
So 1.5L extra is the cost you are willing to pay for -

1. Bigger vehicle.
=======
Looks to me like mechanicals are not being valued these days, and as long as two cars have similar size and comparable looks and similar touch screen sizes, both should be priced same.

Last edited by Jaggu : 23rd June 2017 at 12:48. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large post for short replies. Thanks.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 12:09   #704
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Feature wise the Compass Sport variant is no better than the 1.6 creta SX manual. This is priced at 12.5 and should reduce post GST. How much of a premium can Compass ask for on top of this. In my book 15 would be the maximum the base variant of Compass should be targeting if they want to do good volumes.

Personally if they announce anything less than 16L for the base diesel I am going for it.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 12:12   #705
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Default re: Meeting the Jeep Compass. EDIT: Priced between 14.95 to 20.65 lakhs

Discussion summed up

Guy1 : Compass pricing starting at 16L is Superb Pricing.
Guy2 : No Way! They need to Target Creta.
Guy1 : But Why? Give me one reason.
Guy2 : I will give you 10!
Guy2 : Reason 1: Tucson is a FLOP. why should JEEP Target That. It should target Creta!
Guy1 : You are Kidding right? Go ahead give the next reason
Guy2 : Reason 2 Tucson has lots of features which compass cannot match
Guy1 : That is why they are going to launch it much lesser than Tucson
Guy2 : Reason 3 But Tucson is much bigger than Creta and Compass! You Cannot compare them
Guy1 : Are you referring to actual Statistics or your imaginary statistics? Chalo leave it! tell me reason 4
Guy2 : Reason 4 Creta is extremely overpriced so JEEP should price similar to Creta.
Guy1 : So get this straight. Just because Hyundai charges a bomb for Creta, FCA should price in that segment for a car which cannot be actually compare with Creta. give me next.
Guy2 : Reason 5 Remember FCA is a flop brand. They cannot survive if they price it higher than Creta.
Guy1 : So if FCA prices all vehicles much lesser than it's worth, then they should have been a big seller right?
Guy2 : No. I mean. Eh. whatever they do they are not going to sell in big numbers.
Guy1 : So it should not matter at all in the first place. Chalo give me reason 6
Guy2 : Reason 6 Localization in Compass is very high! So they should price it low
Guy1 : Yes that is why they are going to be priced lower than Tucson!
Guy2 : No no no no..Arrey They should price it at par with Creta.
Guy1 : Why? Does Creta also have huge localization?
Guy2 : No. Bcoz Compass has higher localization, it should target Creta
Guy1 : you already said that once. Give me reason 7
Guy2 : Reason 7 FCA Dealership Sucks
Guy1 : So that should be a reason to price it less?
Guy2 : Of course, C'mon think logically, FCA knows their ASS sucks so they should price it less.
Guy1 : But they are going to bring MOPAR right?
Guy2 : There is no guarantee it will be a success knowing their history right?
Guy1 : Completely true. But how does it affect pricing it similar to Creta. Go ahead with next reason
Guy2 : Reson 8 Compass does not have Cruise Control, rear AC Vents so how can they compare with Tucson. It should be pitted against Creta.
Guy1 : But how about Engine? or Features like ESC, Traction Control, HSA, Bigger Wheels, Independent rear Suspension, use of high tensile steel.
Guy2 : Does that mean they can price it like Tucson?
Guy1 : No. That is why they are going to undercut in a huge way with Tucson as i said earlier.
Guy2 : Dude I also want FCA to succeed. That is why I am telling it will have to be price along with Creta.
Guy1 : That is a different topic. Any price range FCA launch is not going to guarantee success. Our main discussion was pitting it against Creta. Go ahead you have two more to make it to 10
Guy2 : Dude I have already put across 8. Doesn't that get the point across.
Guy1 : But what about the counter arguments I made.
Guy2 : Well let FCA go ahead and pit it against Tucson and Fail.
Guy1 : But you just said you want them to Succeed.
Guy2 : Yes. But at Creta Price. Not a penny more
Guy1 : Well!

Last edited by navin : 20th July 2017 at 11:28. Reason: Spelling corrected - Tucson
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