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Old 11th May 2017, 11:24   #31
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

I am so shocked to hear this -- I have a Duster AWD RXZ which also has ESP (on top of 2 airbags, ABS with EBD, Traction control, etc).. Is there an NCAP result available for this model? Of course -- if its structurally not strong, the above doesn't matter!!!

I feel so cheated.

Which cars made in India are the exact equivalents of their developed country counterparts?

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2017 at 10:06. Reason: Typos
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Old 11th May 2017, 11:26   #32
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Judging the safety of a car based on ratings from Frontal impact test without air-bags is as true as saying that a plane will crash when it falls from a height which is already known. What if your car gives away during accidents with rollover or side impacts but has a safety rating of 3 or 4 starts in front collision test. As GTO said, strong legislations are required to make safer cars in our country, the structural integrity of a car should be prioritized during the design of cars to withstand any scenarios in the event of an accident.

Last edited by deehunk : 11th May 2017 at 11:34.
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Old 11th May 2017, 11:28   #33
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiterunner View Post
The body shell is mentioned as 'UNSTABLE' in the test report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
Not really, look at the A-pillar. It is folding under the load of the crash.....
Even without the airbag, the head of the dummy should not hit the steering wheel that hard. In this video, it looks like the seat belt didn't help at all. That is because the pillars gave up (A pillar fully and B pillar to a small extend), and the seat belts did not have a proper base to hold on to.

Even if it has air bags and gets a 3 star rating at 'lower speed' crash tests, such a car would be highly vulnerable in high speed collisions.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 11th May 2017 at 11:30.
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Old 11th May 2017, 11:46   #34
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
We have learned a lot about crash safety & how manufacturers try to get around safety regulations, thanks to Global NCAP. Some learnings in the past 2 years -
[*]Difference between structural integrity of India-made car & Asia / Europe/ Latin America made car, of same brand/model.[/list]
Actually there are 2 things - MADE IN INDIA

# Made in India, for India
# Made in India, for export

Made in India, for export, models will have superior structural integrity than the Made in India, for India versions of the same model.
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Old 11th May 2017, 11:47   #35
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

With the recent NCAP crash tests performed on the Indian cars, it should be a serious eye opener for many who actually think that adding an airbag makes a car safer and as mentioned by our beloved "smart bhpian" smartcat, all credit goes to Global NCAP.

However I had this question in my mind since a long time, it may sound stupid but still I would ask it to the public forum here. How often do the crash test agencies like NCAP, test a particular car ? I mean will they repeat this test on a particular model again once it is certified. The reason I am asking is, if the car is certified with some star rating say 5 stars, if the car will not be hammered again then what is the probability that manufacturer becomes greedy and reduces the structural integrity to keep the costs low.

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2017 at 10:08. Reason: Language
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Old 11th May 2017, 11:49   #36
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Great! So now we have another parameter to verify before making assumptions on safety: Size of the airbag!


How much a company would save by cutting down the size of an airbag? Something that is a life saving feature.
Now having an airbag in a structurally strong vehicle is even not enough. We got to check its size too! So, we can read crash test reports, select a car with a stronger and safer structure, buy the variant with airbags, ABS, EBD, ESP, AJGGJD and what not by plonking money. And you can still feel cheated. Ah, because you did not check the size of the airbag! Wow. But how do I do it in the showroom? I am sure, size of the airbag is not mentioned in the brochure. Am I supposed to crash it before making a buying decision? Or I need to know this fact a hard way on the road?
Actually 0 stars was not as big a turn off as the smaller airbags in Indian model.
Strange ways.

Regards,
Saket.
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Old 11th May 2017, 12:54   #37
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Sad state of affairs at Renault India! Never thought they can reduce the size of the airbags! Truly pathetic. Even the Etios fares better in terms of structural integrity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra View Post
Actually there are 2 things - MADE IN INDIA

# Made in India, for India
# Made in India, for export

Made in India, for export, models will have superior structural integrity than the Made in India, for India versions of the same model.
+1
Did they test all the major cars sold in India?
I think Polo and Etios scored well on structural integrity, any other car?
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Old 11th May 2017, 13:00   #38
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

They are speaking. But is Renault listening?

Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag-ncap.jpg
(Source)
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Old 11th May 2017, 13:17   #39
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Quote:
Originally Posted by C300 View Post
+1
Did they test all the major cars sold in India?
I think Polo and Etios scored well on structural integrity, any other car?
Tata claims that the production version of Zest and Bolt (variant with airbags) scores 4-star in G-NCAP ratings (Link here (Tata Zest's NCAP Test: 0 stars with no airbags, 4 stars with airbags & reinforcements))
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Old 11th May 2017, 13:27   #40
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post
Also, most of the stories are picking up the 0-star rating report. This is seriously negative PR for Renault. A common buyer will immediately form a perception that 'Renault' is not safe without getting into the details of crash test or checking test reports of other cars he/ she is considering.
Renault India truly deserves such negative PR if they have saved costs by reducing the size of airbags. This is a clear case of discrimination and existing owners should strongly write to Renault.

I for one was considering Duster AMT as my next upgrade and now I wouldn't even take a test drive.

And what about Nissan Terrano? I am assuming the story would be similar in that case too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Which cars made in India are the exact equivalents of their developed country counterparts?
This would be a fantastic topic for a new thread. Let the consumers be aware of which brands treat us as inferiors.
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Old 11th May 2017, 13:53   #41
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

@ Equus

I am sorry but if you read my previous post, you will see that even the model equipped with 6 airbags scored only 3 stars in euro ncap tests back in 2011. It might do you well to atleast check if there is a euroncap or IIHS (if sold in north american markets) test done on the car you are buying in future. It is clear that even the international variant performs poorly and honestly it is not so surprising considering the fact that the car was engineered ages ago by a third world manufacturer (dacia) for a 3rd world country (romania). Just because Renault bought it up and sold the car with its badge, does not make it any less of an agricultural product so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus View Post
Which cars made in India are the exact equivalents of their developed country counterparts?
Until tests for each vehicle come up, the only cars you can be absolutely guaranteed are not tampered with, are CKD CBU products. Typically D segment and above. Apart from that, germans and americans seem to leave the structure intact just as it is sold in international markets. Actually even Renault seems to have left the structure intact, it's just that this was never a safe car to begin with.

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2017 at 10:09. Reason: Removing quoted post which has been edited
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Old 11th May 2017, 15:07   #42
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

@ DragonHawk

Good question, even I wonder that.

Additionally, I believe these crash tests were sponsored by the Companies themselves. If that is true, why would Renault sponsor it for Duster now and especially the base model knowing it will be a failure?

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2017 at 10:10. Reason: Removing quoted post which has been edited
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Old 11th May 2017, 15:32   #43
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra View Post
Actually there are 2 things - MADE IN INDIA

# Made in India, for India
# Made in India, for export

Made in India, for export, models will have superior structural integrity than the Made in India, for India versions of the same model.
I'm going a little - but your point reminds me of the Indian obsession for 'Export Quality' products. Be it textiles, leather goods or any such items manufactured in India, one always comes across people on the lookout of such sales/offers. The implication is that stuff produced for the domestic market is much inferior.
Coming to cars manufactured in India for export - yes I have come across reports that the Indian versions are substantially watered down.
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Old 11th May 2017, 15:48   #44
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by wilful View Post
Coming to cars manufactured in India for export - yes I have come across reports that the Indian versions are substantially watered down.
I feel it is the right time GOI should come up with the directive to ask the manufacturers who are currently exporting the same models which are actually sold in India to make public on the list of modifications which they are doing and reason behind it.
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Old 11th May 2017, 17:17   #45
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Tank like build quality will kill you sooner because there is no way to absorb the impact.
I think what you are referring to is chassis based cars as opposed to modern monocoques. It has been shown that older body-on-frame cars fare much more poorly compared with modern single piece designs irrespective of build quality:

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