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Old 11th May 2017, 19:28   #46
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Until the Government steps in the auto manufacturers will find ways to short change Indian customers when it comes to safety. We are not living in stone age anymore. Every customer has the access in modern times to figure out how a particular manufacturer is resorting to inferior build quality and safety standards in India when the same manufacturer is selling the same model elsewhere with much better safety features and build quality.

I am seriously disappointed with Renault as to how the initial batches of Kwid had really poor chassis integrity and even now the Kwid sold in India is not up to the levels of build quality elsewhere. There is one thing stripping a car of certain features to make it cost competitive but it is blatant cheating and playing with lives of people to resort to inferior build quality just to raise their margins.

I am not saying only Renault do this but imagine they are deliberately equipping a smaller airbag when they have a bigger one available already in the model sold elsewhere. Time has come where the Government has to make NCAP testing compulsory in India because sadly in India safety features are only taken seriously when they are made compulsory.

It is a sorry state of affairs that we in India [ not all but majority] compromise on safety features for gimmicky things like Sunroofs which are totally impractical in our conditions and barely usable. Even the customers have to take a proactive stand and reject models by any manufacturer who resorts to different standards of build quality depending upon the geography they are operating in.

Last edited by needforspeed88 : 11th May 2017 at 19:46.
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Old 12th May 2017, 09:36   #47
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Well, I'm surprised that the body structure is stable- I wasn't even expecting that, considering Renault's attitude towards safety.

The only good thing is that the current Duster is nearing the end of it's life cycle and I'm sure Renault would design the Kaptur to pass all crash tests. I just hope that the BNVSAP is rolled out quickly and it is enforced quickly.

God save the drivers of India.
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Old 12th May 2017, 09:42   #48
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Well, I'm surprised that the body structure is stable- I wasn't even expecting that, considering Renault's attitude towards safety.
Where did you get that? It is clearly mentioned that the body structure is deemed unstable and cannot handle any further load. One can see the roof cave in and the A-Pillar bend .

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2017 at 10:12. Reason: TONE YOUR POSTS DOWN. Do NOT post in a rude / aggressive manner on the forum
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:18   #49
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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How much profit has the parent company made for every such "diluted and compromised" Duster sold in India ever since it's launch?

Smaller-sized airbag?! Holy hell Renault!
2 thousand rupees, I'm guessing.

This penny-pinching attitude of Renault is even more disappointing as the Duster was launched as a 'premium' product in India (Dacia Duster is a cheap car in other markets). Even today, there are variants costing 18 lakh rupees in Mumbai.

When Toyota can sell safe cars for 1/3rd of that price (Liva / Etios), why can't Renault after charging so much money?

Classic example of a responsible manufacturer with long-term thinking vs an irresponsible one with short-term thinking. I'm sure the CEO & CFO met their cost targets, but they have endangered the lives of their customers...customers who're paying for their employment.
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:43   #50
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Smaller-sized airbag?! Holy hell Renault!
Where are your ethics as a responsible automaker?
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
2 thousand rupees, I'm guessing.

This penny-pinching attitude of Renault is even more disappointing as the Duster was launched as a 'premium' product in India (Dacia Duster is a cheap car in other markets). Even today, there are variants costing 18 lakh rupees in Mumbai.

When Toyota can sell safe cars for 1/3rd of that price (Liva / Etios), why can't Renault after charging so much money?
Couldn't agree more with the two of you; Renault does not look good. Anyone who goes ahead with booking a Duster should probably be reminded of the quote: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." In this case, the first instance was that of the Kwid being spectacularly unsafe.

That being said, there are a couple of things we should be aware of. The specifications for airbags differ between the U.S. and Europe. The United States FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) calls for a larger and more forceful airbag than the European ECE (Economic Commission for Europe) standards. Apparently the rationale was that Americans were more likely to drive without a seatbelt, and the airbags had to be designed to save the life of an unbelted driver. Of course, we don't expect people here to belt up more than the folks in the States, but still thought I'd point this out.

A little off-topic, but in case someone is interested, here's a link to the FMVSS Standard 208 that relates to vehicle safety: Link. It's very long, but perhaps worth flipping through.
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Old 12th May 2017, 12:37   #51
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Fact is that it is only the lesser manufacturers like VW or Toyota or Ford(old Figo's chassis remained stable upon impact) whose cars have been proven safe. Maybe because
  • What they sell are basically global products
  • They haven't really bothered to strip them down into India-spec, for whatever reason
  • India is too low a priority for them to develop India specific (read cut price) products. If and when they have, the product has not clicked
What can I say, it seems lack of commitment to the Indian market is not that bad a thing!
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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
Couldn't agree more with the two of you; Renault does not look good. Anyone who goes ahead with booking a Duster should probably be reminded of the quote: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." In this case, the first instance was that of the Kwid being spectacularly unsafe.
I agree with you and totally understand your sentiment. But at the same time, it is ultimately the buyer's prerogative to prioritize safety. In the absence of compulsory crash tests, it is a bit naive to expect any better from our car manufacturers. How much the auto lobby has been able to influence the spec of the upcoming BNVSAP is another matter of debate.

Going by what you say, people should not be buying Altos and Swift at all(I know, they really shouldn't). Till date, there has not been a single Maruti car whose chassis has not failed in crash tests. Whatever has been tested has failed. When dieselgate happened, VW's stock tumbled overnight. When the Alto and Swift, Maruti's biggest bestsellers, spectacularly failed their crash tests, did anything happed to Maruti's stock? That paints a picture in itself.
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Old 12th May 2017, 12:39   #52
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

Its been a long practice of manufacturers in India to short change customers compared against to their Intl models by removing features, making the body lighter at the expense of safety etc. One trend which is very clear is that bare bone models without airbags just never make the cut for safety. Even the good ones like Polo/Old Figo had poor results without airbags. So it more or less seems like a no brainer that airbags have to be mandated. After a certain speed they may not do much if the structure itself gives away.

Govt mandates are the only way to control and improve this. For some reason Indian Govt focus has been minimal on the passenger car market other than making money out of it through crazy amount of taxes. Hopefully with standard crash tests coming, it will provide some kind of a standardized platform to compare all products on.
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Old 12th May 2017, 12:56   #53
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by dass View Post
On the contrary, they should test all the versions available, that way the compete information is available with the buyer and then he can make an informed decision about what he wants to pay for his safety.
+1. Something like 'Smoking Kills' and those graphic diagrams on the cigarette packets.
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Old 12th May 2017, 14:10   #54
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
I agree with you and totally understand your sentiment. But at the same time, it is ultimately the buyer's prerogative to prioritize safety. In the absence of compulsory crash tests, it is a bit naive to expect any better from our car manufacturers. How much the auto lobby has been able to influence the spec of the upcoming BNVSAP is another matter of debate.

Going by what you say, people should not be buying Altos and Swift at all(I know, they really shouldn't).
You raise a valid point, and it's in sync with GTOs point earlier in the thread that the law has to force a manufacturers hand.

However, I would say that on the face of evidence that we've seen thus far, Renault's design and manufacturing decisions seem to be particularly malicious. The Kwid, after failing the test was fortified just on the driver's side (if I recall correctly). That's like pulling a VW-esque stunt, only playing with safety instead of the environment.
Similarly, the Duster seems to have been down-specced significantly .. and this is a premium product, not an Alto/Kwid segment car. It took engineering effort to make the product crappier.
Suppose that the law of the land dictated that a car must have a minimum of 2-airbags. Would we trust Renault to not cut corners and supply smaller air bags?

Finally, I'd just like to disagree -- mildly -- with the statement that it is the buyer's prerogative to prioritize safety. Your own points, especially the second one - "They haven't really bothered to strip them down into India-spec, for whatever reason" - highlights that even in the absence of legislation, some manufacturers can and do sell safer cars than others. The Etios/Liva aren't really premium products and they were engineered for developing markets. And even though they might not have set the sales charts on first, they have consistently sold about 2500-3000 units combined for the last six years or so.

Either way, manufacturers that do sell safer cars should advertise that aspect heavily. And hopefully, that'll lead to more buyer awareness.

Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag-group-7.jpg
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Old 12th May 2017, 18:01   #55
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

This only shows the lackadaisical attitude of auto manufacturers towards public safety. SIAM were very keen to approach government for a relief in sale of BS 3 vehicles case. But they won't voluntarily do anything to make manufacturers address issues related to safety and environment.
IMHO crash tests should be made mandatory for all variants of cars sold in our Bharat.
Also safety features like ABS and airbags should be made mandatory across all variants. The government can do it's part by reducing taxes on components linked to safety.
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Old 14th May 2017, 08:00   #56
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

The Govt is also to blame here as the taxes are probably highest in the world effectively reducing every manufacturer to pinch pennies. And the tax base being low gives no choice to the govt but to levy heavy taxes on things like fuel, cars, bikes, etc.

Tax chori (in all its various forms) is the root cause IMHO.

But for those willing to pay more, can we request a list of cars which are the exact equivalents of their Euro counterparts? This would help a lot.
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Old 14th May 2017, 10:49   #57
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

and i upgraded from a pretty new swift dzire to a renault duster thinking it was a safer car; i feel like an idiot!
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Old 14th May 2017, 15:07   #58
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

After bringing home a duster barely five months ago, it is sad to know that Renault cheated it's customers. Smaller airbags! What was Renault thinking? Are Indians some kind of Guinea pigs for testing marketing strategies on?

On a side note, my cousin's Honda city has been recalled by Honda, for replacement of 'airbag components'. I believe it is the infamous Takata airbag inflator. It is reassuring to see Honda taking time and interest in rectifying a fault with their car, sold years ago. Renault needs to do something in these lines to avoid further customer anger.
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Old 14th May 2017, 17:01   #59
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I am not sure if someone from Renault is reading this or not but I got saved. I was about to book Duster AMT RxZ and I read the news. I wanted an automatic diesel and now the only choices in my budget are rapid and Vento. Renault just lost one of its prospective buyers and I liked Duster badly for its 5* ride quality and anywhere to go ability. Creta is out of Budget and hence now the Germans.
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Old 14th May 2017, 21:54   #60
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Default Re: Global NCAP: Renault Duster scores 0 stars without airbag, 3 stars with airbag

This is extremely disappointing. One would've thought that they would've learned from the Kwid incident. But then again, it didn't have any effect on the sales numbers did it?

Not to justify the Kwid's poor structural integrity, it is a budget offering and its competition is no better. But for a car costing 15 lakhs +, one expects a basic level of safety.

This goes on to prove that sheet metal thickness or the 'feeling' of solidity means nothing from a safety point of view.

Toyota and Honda have been through a whole lot of bashing for the cut cost Etios and Amaze/Mobilio, but at least their cars are safe. (The Mobilio scored 3 stars with airbags, and was found to be structurally stable. The Etios comes with standard dual airbags and a 4 star rating).

Even Maruti, once a backbencher in terms of safety equipment is making strides in this area.

There's no way to ensure safer cars other than to make it mandatory.

I for one, would rather be in a car that rattles but protects me during an accident, rather than a car that feels solid until an accident occurs.

Not cool, Renault.

Last edited by Aaron:) : 14th May 2017 at 21:57.
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