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Old 21st June 2017, 06:57   #16
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

I feel this is a good move especially considering that the 'Highest' selling model among endeavours is 3.2 AT titanium. Infact, they should have launched so many variants at the time of launch. I still remember checking with various dealerships at the time launch and was quoted waiting period of anywhere between 1 months to 3 months, but most other variants were readily available. As a result of much the initial lot of buyers who want to get the 3.2 Titanium either cancelled the booking or had to take other variants. On the contrary Toyota launched Crysta/New fortuner with decent size inventory and able to satisfy the initial lot customers.

I don't think they are going to go lose/gain much of sales because of THIS step. Endeavour is considered as an option by only by the buyers who do not want to get a fortuner and no matter what FORD does its not going to get anywhere near the sales of Fortuner simply because Toyota enjoys a much better brand value and reliability score. However they could have kept one "Manual" variant.
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Old 21st June 2017, 09:23   #17
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Default Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

Pricing for the 3.2 Titanium was already 31.50 lacs, last time I checked with the showroom, sometime last month.

They were already offering about 1lac off on the 3.2 Titanium, on the Onroad price.

I am sure the price reduction after GST would be about 1.5 lacs otherwise it won't sell.
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Old 21st June 2017, 11:48   #18
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

This just shows Ford's weakness in the sales, marketing & product planning areas. Even as an enthusiast, it's hard to keep track. Consistency shows stability - frequent price changes like a yo-yo, feature deletions, variants coming & going only confuse the customer.

The weak marketing department is also why cars like the Fiesta, new Figo etc. bombed in the market.

I think when the product planning team arrives at work every morning, they say "so what changes will we incorporate today - pick one - price, variants, features?" .
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Old 21st June 2017, 12:34   #19
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

The Fortuner did not become the King overnight.

It will take Ford a few years to create the goodwill on product quality and service to match the Fortuner's numbers.
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Old 21st June 2017, 13:23   #20
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

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Originally Posted by Hatari View Post
The Fortuner did not become the King overnight.
The 'Ford Endeavour' brand was actually launched many years before the 'Toyota Fortuner' in India.

On a related note, it isn't necessary that only no.1 = success. Some brands are happy with no.2 / no.3 / no.4 positions also, as long as their sales & profit objectives are met.

Cross-posting from the sales thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sad? Ford is actually very happy with the Endeavour's sales. We have to understand that it isn't necessary to be the no.1 to be successful, and not every brand aspires to do so. Why is Ford happy?

1. It's selling 4 - 6 times more than the old Endeavour ever did.

2. Proves that people are willing to spend 30 lakhs on a Ford. That wasn't the case with Chevrolet, Nissan & many others (including Hyundai).

3. F-A-T profits.

Last edited by GTO : 21st June 2017 at 13:32.
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Old 21st June 2017, 14:00   #21
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

If we had a variant based break up of the sales of Endeavour till date, we would have been in a better situation to understand the reason behind this move by Ford.

Eliminating the MT off the lineup is not a bad move as we can see with most UVs from the Hexas to the Innovas and Fortuners having more demand for the ATs and the Endeavour is nothing different. For those who prefer the 4X4 for actual off-roading, the obvious choice is again the AT.

I am sure marketing folks at Ford have taken feedback from their dealers on the movement of different variants. If a particular variant that is not in demand happens to be in stock, the dealers are then forced to give a hefty discount to dispose which in turn reduces the value of the brand.

Coming to the sales wrt. Fortuner, as long as we continue to pay whatever Toyota asks for without thinking twice, no other car in the market will be able to sell even half of the number of copies!
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Old 21st June 2017, 14:15   #22
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

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Originally Posted by Kishen.padiyar View Post
Eliminating the MT off the lineup is not a bad move as we can see with most UVs from the Hexas to the Innovas and Fortuners having more demand for the ATs and the Endeavour is nothing different. For those who prefer the 4X4 for actual off-roading, the obvious choice is again the AT.
AT and MT Fortuner and Innova sales were neck to neck few months back when I checked. I am now sure manual Innovas outsell the AT thanks to the taxi segment. The HEXA MT does not sell ( at least that is the impression on the forum, we are yet to see actual numbers ) due to the lousy MT gearbox. If they had a better MT I am sure there will be significant sales for that variant as well. All my hardcode 4x4 buddies swear by their MTs and still is the enthusiast's choice.

The constant vacillation by Ford smacks of poor product planning and understanding of the market.
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Old 21st June 2017, 14:28   #23
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The 'Ford Endeavour' brand was actually launched many years before the 'Toyota Fortuner' in India.

On a related note, it isn't necessary that only no.1 = success. Some brands are happy with no.2 / no.3 / no.4 positions also, as long as their sales & profit objectives are met.

Cross-posting from the sales thread:
My point being, it took Toyota year after year of delivering a top product.
Ford sort of stagnated the Endeavour. This one is the biggest upgrade in all these years. They lost interest in it I think and then suddenly decided, right lets battle the Fortuner.

From a brand perspective, one would almost always choose Toyota over Ford.
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Old 21st June 2017, 14:36   #24
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Thumbs down Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
This just shows Ford's weakness in the sales, marketing & product planning areas
Absolutely agree to this. As a customer, I've completely lost trust with the brand and the product with so much of shuffling and uncertainty. If the company and sales people are so confused, what happens to the products? Worst still, those who have already bought will definitely worry about support and resale value now. Feel sorry for those guys and makes me super sceptical with the thought of buying a Ford product !!
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Old 21st June 2017, 15:08   #25
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

I think this is a valid move on most accounts except the lack of an MT option. But my guess is that Ford would have rationalized the cost of maintaining an MT variant against profitability at assembly line.

When i was scouting the market to buy an SUV earlier this year (almost signed up for Ford Endy 3.2 AT Titanium), I was told that the top end model is actually custom built and therefore requires a min waiting time of 25-35 days. Also, Ford was happily offering massive discounts on lower variants but almost negligible discounts on the top end, which clearly shows a one sided demand. Therefore they are justified in letting go of the lower volume models.

By reducing the number of variants, they will be able to reduce the excruciating waiting time for the top selling Titanium variant,

As far as the competition is concerned, Toyota has built an unassailable position, which I frankly was expecting to come under siege post Endy launch. After having seen numerous face off videos (South Africa, Australia, India)on YouTube, Endy seems to be better VfM on a net off basis. In reality, somehow the Toyota brand seemed to prevail in the end leading to a one-sided buying decision.

Feel bad for the Ford guys where a brilliant product is getting beaten by a combination of brand appeal and product.

As far as Jeep is concerned, I think they have played a marketing gamble by trying to create a halo effect by launching unjustifiably costly vehicles ahead of the Compass. It may actually work if they are able to get their service act in order!
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Old 21st June 2017, 15:31   #26
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

News like these is what hampers the brand image IMHO. Shows their confidence levels or short-sightedness when it comes to pricing, trim levels, feature list etc. Ever since new Endeavour's launch, every few months it has been in the news for not so good reasons. Be it multiple up/down revisions in pricing, features addition/subtraction and now the trimming of MT variants completely.

When I was in the market for an SUV early last year, new Endeavour had been just launched and was generations ahead of the then Fortuner (D4-D). But one of the primary reasons for me not going for it was the brand image of Ford which just does not inspire confidence.

Just imagine how the owner of a brand new Endeavour MT variant would feel now who has bought the car less than a year back and his model is already discontinued. What about the resale value? Availability of parts in case of issues?

I am not saying that Ford as a brand is bad, just that it is miles behind Toyota and that is the primary reason why Fortuner is doing almost thrice numbers even though it is so much less car than the Endeavour. Unfortunately everything else around the Endy is futile.
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Old 21st June 2017, 15:40   #27
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Default

I am also waiting for the GST rollout to change my Fortuner. I am a self proclaimed Toyota Fan boy. Thanks to their relative maintenance free quality and hence the exceptional resale values.

Mind you the cars are not exceptional in any particular way. Its just that the build quality is rattle free (compared to the competition) and the parts are usually long lasting.

I am very interested in the new Endeavour but the response from the 2-3 dealers that I have been in touch has been very disappointing. One dealer didn't even have a display car, forget about the test drive, other one in Delhi had a non working Display car, battery disconnected and all. But they want you to buy the car.

The sales experience in Toyota is completely different. I was offered a test drive within 5 mins of entering the showroom without even asking for it.

But lets see how Ford prices it after the GST. It seems to be an excellent product marred by illogical decisions by the marketing department.

I am still waiting to make a decision as I am still getting about 45-50% of my original purchase price for my 7 years-old fortuner (Thanks Toyota for the upward price revisions every 6 months). Ford will probably be half of that value after 5 years. But that is still hypothetical.

Let's see how the car companies react to the revised tax regime.
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Old 21st June 2017, 16:20   #28
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

Cross posting from a different thread, but the content needs no change whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Ladies and Gentlemen, please spare a thought for the poor souls working at Ford.

They have to sit idle most of the times, with a slack demand for the Figo twins and also the numbers from the Endeavour aren't that high either.

Time has to be killed.

Drop the price --> see & read market reactions and increase sales

-- sales back to normal --

Hike the price --> see and read market reaction and get entertained.


They had done the same thing on the Ecosport too. Reduced prices at the time of Brezza launch and then hiked it back up within a couple of months
and then hiked even more and also removed some features (and added some).

Seems to be a favorite past time of the committee there.


PS: I personally believe that they are made to fill up time sheets there at Ford, explaining how much time was spent where. I think that's the crux of the problem. Time sheet.
Not the input costs.
Not the increase in Fixed costs.
Not market sentiment
Not even blah blah.

It has to be the time sheet.
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Old 21st June 2017, 16:29   #29
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

That's faster than how e-commerce companies change their User Interface to keep pace with Amazon, of course losing customers in the process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
Cross posting from a different thread, but the content needs no change whatsoever.

Last edited by aah78 : 21st June 2017 at 19:07. Reason: Typo.
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Old 21st June 2017, 16:38   #30
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Default Re: Ford Endeavour - 2 variants discontinued, MT gearbox scrapped

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
They had done the same thing on the Ecosport too. Reduced prices at the time of Brezza launch and then hiked it back up within a couple of months
and then hiked even more and also removed some features (and added some).
..and they will change again next month after GST, and at the time of Ecosport facelift launch in October and again in new year as 2018 prices.

When I went to showroom last week, they gave me an old brochure/price list which had manual corrections in prices of some models and also Titanium+ variants of Aspire were completely crossed out. The dealers are not bothering to reprint the price list as well

Last edited by GTO : 22nd June 2017 at 10:36. Reason: Typos
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