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Old 27th June 2017, 12:06   #91
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by Revvmaster View Post
at least 35 kg and above 4 feet in height before they move to regular seating
I think this is a good start point as reference.
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Old 27th June 2017, 16:54   #92
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Nice touch there

I think the only irritant there would be that child seats would have to continuously be changed as children grow. Calls for more investment, but safety shouldn't be ignored.
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Offtopic alert! However, I find there is only one change (at least for my son)
I guess it can be reused in case of more than 1 kid in the family or maybe even in the friend circle.

He moved from a rear facing seat to a front facing seat. The front facing seat we got could still fit him till he crossed the weight limit and moved to the regular car seat. He did try to keep sitting in it after outgrowing and was not very comfortable initially without the child seat.

Our younger daughter then used a new rear facing seat as we had given the earlier one to someone else. She now uses the front facing car seat that was earlier used by my son. I guess she will use it till she outgrows it. The second rear facing seat is now being used by my neighbour for her baby.
All put together, we spent less than 15k INR on all child seats. Probably the amount that we would spend on car seat covers.

About the initial topic, I think a lot of people who have seen the ad now think of this as an essential feature that they would like to have. May or may not translate into sales for Ford, but helps build their image in terms of social responsibility. If the intent is there, I do not think one should really expect perfection in the execution of the idea. If so, there are so many other bike ads out there that promote cutting through traffic

Last edited by selfdrive : 27th June 2017 at 16:57.
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Old 27th June 2017, 17:27   #93
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by Revvmaster View Post
In case of a side impact, adults are well protected by curtain airbags. However small children aren't and can be flung against car trim with great impact if they aren't in a child/booster seat.
Hey Revvmaster,


So just to be clear, you are saying:

1) Yes, this advertisement shows a dangerous practice
2) The dangerous practice is the lack of a booster seat

(I'm with you on that.)

... and airbags or no airbags might not really make any difference here, given the missing booster seat.
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Old 27th June 2017, 19:08   #94
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

^^ I think the logical way to interpret the advert is: All other things being equal, a car with 6 airbags is safer than one with 2 (or none).

Ceteris paribus is a concept we struggle with as a nation, and the forum is no different
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Old 27th June 2017, 21:01   #95
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

The thing is, if you look hard enough, you can find fault with almost every advertisement, every person, every activity or every single thing in life. What we are discussing is one such thing. I think we should learn to just look at what the ad is trying to convey rather than nitpicking or over analyzing. For god's sake, we don't even know how tall or old the girl is, why can't we just presume something good and move on?

That said, I think she certainly looks taller than 120cms but probably not as old as 12 years. My son refused to sit in a child seat after he turned eight (and he was already taller than the 120cms that's being discussed here). So, now he sits in the middle of the back row with the lap belt on. Not ideal, but probably better than nothing.

Last edited by prakash_ajp : 27th June 2017 at 21:03.
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Old 27th June 2017, 23:21   #96
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Hey Revvmaster,


So just to be clear, you are saying:

1) Yes, this advertisement shows a dangerous practice
2) The dangerous practice is the lack of a booster seat

(I'm with you on that.)

... and airbags or no airbags might not really make any difference here, given the missing booster seat.
Spot on Rehaan. My point is, the protection provided is incomplete and ineffective if the booster seat isn't around.

Anyway if the implementation is policed from October and according to the spirit of the letter, a lot of arguments will change.

I won't be surprised if a few years down the line, T-B will debate the demerits of the commercial more vociferously because the understanding and implementation of child and booster seats will be more commonplace.

Last edited by Revvmaster : 27th June 2017 at 23:24.
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Old 28th June 2017, 01:13   #97
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by Revvmaster View Post
I have been a vocal critic of this advertisement since day one and have reasons to be.

Going purely by the merits of the advertisement, yes the child is seated in the rear and buckled up, which is great in theory, considering how children have been shown in car commercials in the past. However, this commercial would have been pulled down in Europe or US for showing a child without a supplementary restraint - i.e. a child or booster seat.

From there commercial one can deduce quite clearly that the child is under 12 years of age and under 4 feet tall. Look at the October 2017 BNSVAP code and it becomes mandatory for additional restraint systems to be used.

In case of a side impact, adults are well protected by curtain airbags. However small children aren't and can be flung against car trim with great impact if they aren't in a child/booster seat. You can see numerous videos by Euro NCAP and other NCAP organisations around the world to get a sense.

It's majorly ignorance and to an extent, irresponsible on the part of Ford India to not have done their research on this commercial. I have written an extensive article on child safety in India and done a fair bit of research on it. In fact I mentioned the commercial at the time of writing without taking Ford's name. I am glad more people are offended by it.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/child...-rohin-nagrani
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Originally Posted by Revvmaster View Post
Vigvr, my article specifies some of the basic requirements (at least 35 kg and above 4 feet in height before they move to regular seating), although thorough research into child seats online should give you a better sense of height, weight etc.

I find calls for closing the thread ridiculous. Half baked knowledge is worse and incomplete understanding of physics in case of an impact is dangerous. Remember, 5 per cent of all road accident deaths in this country are children under the age of 14. Just because it is single digit percentage, doesn't mean their statistics are less important.

And what makes me sad is how child safety in cars is considered even by an educated, well heeled and travelled lot. Good car seats can range between Rs 10,000-25,000 with up to three changes required during a kid's life, depending on growth. That (in total) is far less than a year's school fees in a good IB/ICSE school in a metro city.
That is precisely the point I was making -

a. From what I understand, an airbag is designed to save the life of an adult and not a child - when I say adult, I mean of a certain weight and height. I had read that it is typically designed to save someone over 60 kgs. But if it is 35 kgs, then I am sure you have done your homework.

b. You are right in pointing out that the ad would have been pulled up in most developed countries as it seems to suggest that airbags, irrespective of where they are in the car are not only good for kids but actually you would be doing your kid a disservice and putting him/her in harm's way by placing your child away from the airbag. This is untrue. Infact, exactly the opposite is true.

Also, those posting and comparing this issue to Patanjali and Axe, I request you not to troll. You have a right to disagree and put forth your points but if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, I suggest just ignore the topic and move on.
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Old 28th June 2017, 01:28   #98
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by invidious View Post
b. You are right in pointing out that the ad would have been pulled up in most developed countries as it seems to suggest that airbags, irrespective of where they are in the car are not only good for kids but actually you would be doing your kid a disservice and putting him/her in harm's way by placing your child away from the airbag. This is untrue. Infact, exactly the opposite is true.


No. There is no proof that a child seated in an age appropriate child seat is at risk of injury from a side airbag.

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/a396/ar...ldren#section2
Quote:
Are side airbags safe near a child car seat?

Most modern cars are fitted with several airbags. These may include:
Two forward-facing frontal airbags. One packed into the driver's steering wheel, and the other packed into the front passenger side dashboard.
Door pillar or vehicle seat airbags.
Head airbags or inflatable tubular structures, which stay inflated for five seconds to protect against side impact movements.

Some child car seats have added protection and padding for side impacts that helps to prevent the child’s head from striking the window, or any other part of the interior.

If your car has side airbags, make sure that the child restraint does not rest against the door. Your child should be sitting properly in the seat and not leaning close to, or against, the door or window. If in doubt, ask the vehicle manufacturer how far the airbag comes out when it deploys.

Some cars have curtain airbags that drop down in front of the rear seats in the event of a side-impact crash. There is no evidence that curtain airbags cause any problems for a child who is restrained correctly in their child car seat. But check the seat manufacturer's approval list and your car manufacturer's handbook.

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/a396/ar...#ixzz4lEcAmfUz
My car does not have side airbags.
But if you notice both the child seats are designed such that they protect the occupants from hitting the window. By extension the airbag as it deploys.
Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?-child-safe.jpg


Edit: Added this video

Last edited by bblost : 28th June 2017 at 01:43.
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Old 28th June 2017, 10:03   #99
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Default Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

Wow. I was surprised at the way OP has put attention on this ad or basically nitpicked this ford commercial. How many times have we found such faults with Marutis or Mahindras of today or yesteryears ? For example this one -

They are seen travelling with a baby . Why Travel with a baby in a some 1 star NCAP rating car? And here is ford who can offer upto six airbags unlike others in the same category.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:47   #100
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Angry Re: Any concerns around the Ford EcoSport's latest safety advertisement?

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Originally Posted by invidious View Post

As a father of a baby and a concerned citizen, I have already complained to the Advertising Standards Council of India about this misleading advert.
I own an Ecosport AT which has 6 Airbags which one of the reasons why I chose Ecosport. I strongly believe that your concerns are grossly misplaced about children being affected by Airbags, since a friend of mine had an unfortunate crash in his Ecosport and his family (including a son aged 10 years) had a fortuitous and providential escape with their lives and minimal injuries only because all 6 airbags inflated. I feel the Team BHP Administrators need to vett such posts (about wrong information about children safety and Airbags) more carefully before allowing it to be posted since it is creates doubts about the efficacy of Airbags...

Last edited by noopster : 29th June 2017 at 12:14. Reason: Please do not quote a large post in its entirety- it causes issues for small-screen users
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