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Old 10th November 2006, 20:24   #16
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The petrol engines are good no doubt but tata should remember most people are after their diesels,hopefully they are working on them as well[The wait for the dicor indica has been too long]
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Old 10th November 2006, 20:33   #17
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Yet another Indica variant from this single-platform manufacturer... Team-BHPians might deliberate the merits of this latest offering threadbare, but I feel the average Joe is just going to be trapped by Tata with more mumbo-jumbo on prices and features ..
Despite being 'feature-rich', refinement levels are low in these cars - this after a decade of R&D. Mediocrity sells in this country, and how!
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Old 10th November 2006, 20:50   #18
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You got to admire/respect Tata for thinking out-of-the-box. Whether their ideas bear economic fruition or not will become immaterial to their original spirit
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Old 10th November 2006, 20:59   #19
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I am sort of confident the "Mini" Indica will get along well with the masses at those prices. Value for money always sells in India.

Though not a scorcher, it will take 5 people in better comfort than an 800 or alto and this will matter to a lot of people. But what the mileage of the new car in the "Average kya hai" world is one of the important criteria that TATA needs to look into.

TATA is a bit slow on the learning curve, i guess

Heard the DICOR LWB would be priced about 1 1/2 lacs more than the current TDI.
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Old 10th November 2006, 23:31   #20
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Are they doing anything to reduce weight. Anyway Tata should do something about not using the term TDI, it conjures up images of the LE Mans conquerer and when we see them on our roads huffing and puffing feel like pushing them out of the road!
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Old 11th November 2006, 08:17   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon
Yet another Indica variant from this single-platform manufacturer... Team-BHPians might deliberate the merits of this latest offering threadbare, but I feel the average Joe is just going to be trapped by Tata with more mumbo-jumbo on prices and features ..
Despite being 'feature-rich', refinement levels are low in these cars - this after a decade of R&D. Mediocrity sells in this country, and how!
Rightly said. With the pricing similar to an Alto, the "Mini Indica" would definitely sell volumes. Because its a bigger car in all respects when compared to Alto/800.
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Old 11th November 2006, 16:47   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elf
That's really great. Now we'll have even more sluggish Indicas in traffic to battle with. Anybody else noticed, that in general, they (along with Premiers) are the worst driven cars anywhere?
Let's not blame the poor indica for that. Accepted that the indica isn't the fastest car in the world. Blame those drivers who want to extract every extra inch from every drop of fuel and most of them drive indicas simply because it is the only car which is fuel efficient, cheap and runs on diesel at the same time.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:20   #23
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To me this move is very strategic - Maruti and Tata are exchanging chess moves. This seems like Tata's response to Maruti's proposal to reduce 800 prices & compete with the new 1-lakh car. If you can reduce prices, I can too - and screw your breadwinner in the process....
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Old 13th November 2006, 10:31   #24
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So in theory a smaller engine should be more fuel effecient !

The xeta in itself is not a great fuel effecient vehicle , so with all that approx 1050 kgs to lug around does that mean the 1200cc vehicle will be even less fuel effecient?

What are xeta volumes per month?
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Old 13th November 2006, 10:40   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
To me this move is very strategic - Maruti and Tata are exchanging chess moves. This seems like Tata's response to Maruti's proposal to reduce 800 prices & compete with the new 1-lakh car. If you can reduce prices, I can too - and screw your breadwinner in the process....

yeah as long as they dont get screw in the bargain .

In august MUL sold around 19K alto to 12K indica's ( should be 70%diesel). So the battle is obviously not only in terms of being able to transport 5 always .
As far as i can see it most Alto /Indica buyers are first time.

Most would be travelling more than 20K in the year .And most would want peace of mind and a reliable car till they are able to grasp the finer points in maintaining a car.'

The difference is in the sales show-room itself .Average time before you are approached in a MUL showroom : 2 mins .Average time before you are approached in a Tata showroom: 10 mins.

In fact I have been to 3 Tata showrooms and seen the Indica ,sat in it and then walked out without being approached by anyone at all. Its only after 10 minutes thats the sales staff realise that you are not part of the furniture.

I dont think apart from a initial temporary surge anybody will notice the 1200cc indica and its not going to make a huge impact .More or less its going to take away the xeta customers .
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Old 13th November 2006, 12:42   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
They cant, its 1242cc. This excercise is to get the excise cut benefit. Redesigning that engine will make the cost go for a toss and they would not be able to price it in Alto territory
if tata is planing to re-engineer their 1400cc and made to 1200cc, why not the fiat's 1242cc to 1200cc. i guess the palio's engine is lot better than the tata's.
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Old 13th November 2006, 12:45   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkr2k2
if tata is planing to re-engineer their 1400cc and made to 1200cc, why not the fiat's 1242cc to 1200cc. i guess the palio's engine is lot better than the tata's.
One word : Cost. This comes from economy of volumes. Putting similar head on 1200cc and the bigger engine will save them lot of cost.
As for technology, the Fiat 1.2 is not really an "innovation". Its an old design after all. So it wont make much of a difference.
Moreover they want money for themselves, why do something for Fiat. Patnership is okay, but Tata would look out for their own interests.
Using a smaller version of their engine would also mean that their workshop staff are already trained and they dont have to go to Fiat for expertise.
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Old 13th November 2006, 12:58   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Well the 1.2 liter is a great move by Tata and compared to 800cc altos, I dont think target customer will complain although they should be able to do better than 55 bhp. Most likely they will just reduce the piston size which means hardly any cost savings.

Another way to do it is to lop off one cylilnder (1.4/4 *3= 1150 cc) and make it a 3 pot..that way the engine will be cheaper and have less friction (= more FE) at the cost of some smoothness.



You mean they raised the whole body. Otherwise if you raise the seat, you need to raise the steering wheel correspondingly otherwise you sit funny.
which volume will be consider for the excise duty reduction for petrol engines less than 1200cc, is it the swept volume or the total cylinder volume ???
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Old 13th November 2006, 13:40   #29
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This is not a rich country. Many people just about get by, not to mention their debts and worries regarding their monthly grocery bills. So, when many of them think of safe transportation, it is not about ABS and air bags, but rather about something safer than five people on a two wheeler.
So, if the Tata's are thinking of a 1 lac car or a small engined Indica, they are not only improving their top lines but also fulfilling their own social responsibility towards the country.
It is all very well to complain about too many slow vehicles on the road, but then this is a democracy and the slow moving car has as much right to occupy the road as any speed demon.
The problem is of too many hungry mouths chasing too little income, and
our fetish for having many children (and male children) only helps is making life more difficult.
It is a complicated problem and the solution is not a simple one. So, complaining about 1.1litre 1 ton cars slowing you down is not going to get you anywhere. Maybe you could contribute to this by stopping asking for or taking dowry(?) But its is still a long way to go.
Maybe, this post came a little late, but I noticed many people complaining about sluggish engines and slow cars, so...

Last edited by prabuddhadg : 13th November 2006 at 13:42.
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Old 13th November 2006, 17:13   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
You mean they raised the whole body.
I had clearly stated that the driving position was improved by raising the seat height. The whole body was not raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Otherwise if you raise the seat, you need to raise the steering wheel correspondingly otherwise you sit funny.
The driving position was more funny before this exercise, especially for shorter drivers who saw more of the dashboard and less of the road in front. Now you get a better view of the road from the driver's seat. Other things remain where they were.
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