Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th November 2006, 11:17   #1
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default Small-engine Indica @ Rs 225,000, Indigo XL DICOR and Petrol 100bhp

this is in todays rediff site
November 10, 2006 10:14 IST

Tata Motors is giving its Indica a smaller 1,200cc petrol engine, which is set to be launched next week. Tata Motors took this step to get the benefit of a reduction in excise duty from 24 per cent to 16 per cent for small cars, as outlined in the Union Budget 2006-07.

In the Budget, the finance minister had defined a small car as one that is not longer than 4,000 mm and with engine capacity not exceeding 1,500cc for diesel and 1,200cc for petrol. The Indica is 3,675 mm long.

The price of the 1,200cc petrol variant of the Indica is likely to be between Rs 2.25 lakh (225,000) and Rs 2.40 lakh (240,000), ex-showroom Mumbai.

The Indica has dimensions similar to the Maruti Suzuki Swift and the Hyundai Getz, but it will now have a price tag comparable to that of the much smaller Maruti Suzuki Alto. The existing Indica Xeta petrol car prices vary from Rs 2.92 lakh (Rs 292,000) to Rs 3.98 lakh (Rs 398,000).

The 1,200cc engine is a variant of the Indica Xeta's 1,396cc four-cylinder unit and its power output is likely to be around 55 bhp, compared with the Xeta's 70 BHP.

Though Tata's partner Fiat has a 1,242cc engine in its stable, this is not a direct fit in the Indica engine bay. Also, it would have been cheaper for Tata Motors to re-engineer their existing 1,400cc unit than source it from Fiat.

A Tata spokesman, however, said Tata Motors did not comment on future product development.

Meanwhile, Tata is also readying the luxury version of the Indigo, the Indigo XL, with a long wheelbase. This car, which was showcased at the Auto Expo, has a wheelbase that has been lengthened by 15 cm to offer more legroom.

It will be a top-end variant of Tata's three-box car and is expected to be launched by January 2007. A 100 BHP petrol engine and later, a common-rail direct injection variant of the 1,400cc turbodiesel, will power this car. Tata Motors is reportedly setting up a special assembly line for the Indigo XL at its plant in Pune.
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 11:28   #2
BHPian
 
kvish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 598
Thanked: 133 Times
Default

I think Alto will be running for cover... Imagine, for the same price you get a car of a league above and Much safer one too.... but it will be good to see how this engine manages the heavy car...

Tata and Mahindra are truly on a roll.... good for us!
kvish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 11:50   #3
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,644 Times
Default

The 100bhp petrol Indigo was driven by autocar a few months back, and they liked it. It wont be a scorcher, but it is miles ahead of the current engine due to its 16 valve twin cam head.
The best part is the legroom.

Here are the specs, though the diesel engine specs will now change

Looks wise, there is nothing new, it looks a little too long infact
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 11:55   #4
elf
BANNED
 
elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,034
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

That's really great. Now we'll have even more sluggish Indicas in traffic to battle with. Anybody else noticed, that in general, they (along with Premiers) are the worst driven cars anywhere?
elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 11:57   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

From your pics I can see separate a/c controls for the rear including a cooling coil, lumbar support, foldable rear armrest with cupholders and aircraft-style tray tables.

They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash. More is not necessarily better and @ 55 BHP I dont think less is better either. It will be a slow car.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:01   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg
this is in todays rediff site
November 10, 2006 10:14 IST


The 1,200cc engine is a variant of the Indica Xeta's 1,396cc four-cylinder unit and its power output is likely to be around 55 bhp, compared with the Xeta's 70 BHP.
Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.

In my opinion, lowering a product's price can give you a competitive edge only if you keep the product attributes constant. When you reduce the price as well as product quality (in this case by way of loss of power), you remain where you are.
directinjection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:05   #7
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,644 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
From your pics I can see separate a/c controls for the rear including a cooling coil, lumbar support, foldable rear armrest with cupholders and aircraft-style tray tables.
They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash. More is not necessarily better and @ 55 BHP I dont think less is better either. It will be a slow car.
The pics are XL which will have a 100bhp twin cam 16 valve engine. Indica 1200cc was not even mentioned at the Expo.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:08   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,644 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.
\
I suspect they may do that.
Replace the entire Indica/Indigo fleet petrol with the new engine(Same block).
so you have a equally fuel efficient indica with around 85-90bhp, a tuned version for indigo putting out 100bhp and the 1200cc 70bhp engine on the smaller indica.
They cant stick to the old head due to new emission norms. I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:22   #9
BHPian
 
yeis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 237
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.
In India BS-IV or Euro-IV is applicable from Apr-2010, right? Will manufacturers like Tata, Maruti etc start producing E-4 engines this early?
yeis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:23   #10
BHPian
 
goldie_malhotra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 757
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Just 55 BHP from a 1200 CC engine? That's pathetic, more so because the car weighs as much as 1000 kilos. Considering that Swift 1300 CC develops 87 BHP (though at a higher RPM), the 1200 CC unit should develop at least 70 BHP. Tata should give the 1200 CC engine 16 valves, to compensate for the reduction in CC, so that there is no loss of power.

In my opinion, lowering a product's price can give you a competitive edge only if you keep the product attributes constant. When you reduce the price as well as product quality (in this case by way of loss of power), you remain where you are.
Sure, it would be sluggish, but given enough low-end torque, it might still be driveable in the city. And at that price range - there is no point comparing it with Swift which is twice the cost. Rather compare it with the Alto, which is no scorcher itself.

From the point of view of a entry-level car buyer, who doesn't have the money to go for a santro/wagon-r, only has the Alto and 800 to consider. And though they might be cheap to run, they are very cramped, and have very bad ride quality. This mini-Indica would offer all that they offer, plus more space and comfort.

Now if only they would have priced a 1200cc Dicor mill at the same price - would knock the pants off Alto for sure
goldie_malhotra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:32   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid

They seem to be throwing in everything - its a pity because of that ridiculous dashboard and driving position. They need to redesign the interiors, especially the dash.
They did improve the driving position when they introduced the Marina, by increasing the seat height. This improvement was later passed on to Indica as well. (I'm sure Indigo would have benefitted too). I drove a later model Indica some time back and discovered that one gets a much better view of the road now, in spite of that high sill dashboard.

Actually, more than the interiors, it is the exteriors that beg for a change. I'm sure the Indigo exteriors were designed by a brain-dead guy.

Looks like they'll introduce changes of substance only when they launch the new Indica platform.

Last edited by directinjection : 10th November 2006 at 12:47.
directinjection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:44   #12
BHPian
 
carfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Udupi
Posts: 559
Thanked: 178 Times
Default

perhaps tata should fit in the palio 1.2 engine-guess would be a much better option.
carfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 12:45   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 1,594
Thanked: 439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
They cant stick to the old head due to new emission norms. I think Apr 2007 will see E-IV(correct me if I am wrong) and plenty of new engines from Tata.
Euro-IV comes into force in India only w.e.f. 1 April, 2010, that too in the metros and NCR.

Check this link: http://www.ecmaindia.com/indian.html

Tata is already exporting Euro-IV Indicas to Europe. A look at their engine specs may reveal what to expect here. Europe went Euro-IV w.e.f. 1 January, 2005.
directinjection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 13:12   #14
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,644 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carfreak
perhaps tata should fit in the palio 1.2 engine-guess would be a much better option.
They cant, its 1242cc. This excercise is to get the excise cut benefit. Redesigning that engine will make the cost go for a toss and they would not be able to price it in Alto territory
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2006, 20:01   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Well the 1.2 liter is a great move by Tata and compared to 800cc altos, I dont think target customer will complain although they should be able to do better than 55 bhp. Most likely they will just reduce the piston size which means hardly any cost savings.

Another way to do it is to lop off one cylilnder (1.4/4 *3= 1150 cc) and make it a 3 pot..that way the engine will be cheaper and have less friction (= more FE) at the cost of some smoothness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
They did improve the driving position when they introduced the Marina, by increasing the seat height. This improvement was later passed on to Indica as well. (I'm sure Indigo would have benefitted too). I drove a later model Indica some time back and discovered that one gets a much better view of the road now, in spite of that high sill dashboard.
You mean they raised the whole body. Otherwise if you raise the seat, you need to raise the steering wheel correspondingly otherwise you sit funny.

Last edited by Mpower : 10th November 2006 at 20:57.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Used Ford Fiesta 1.6 100BHP 12 Unforgettable Lessons in 12 Months !! drkritik Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 107 25th September 2010 07:20
What used car (90-100BHP) in Bangalore ? CrackedHead What Car? 30 10th October 2009 22:48
Tata launches New Indica, Indigo CS, Indica V2 DICOR, Sumo Grande, Xenon. Details.... ashutoshb The Indian Car Scene 102 19th December 2008 22:53
Tata Indica, Indigo and Marina : Dicor engine sakthivelm The Indian Car Scene 1 16th October 2006 21:53


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:31.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks