Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th November 2006, 22:26   #136
BHPian
 
overdose14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Brampton,Canada
Posts: 159
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

I don’t know why people are against TATA. People just keep on telling horror stories of other not their. If this was the case then I know many who have very sad stories to tell and they are not about TATA but are of HONDA, SKODA and FORD. One is complaining about service then other about car and third one about high spare price.
But I know everyday is not Sunday. TATA quality is not excellent but also not bad for the price of its car. If safari was launched by another manufacture, I agree I would have better engine, QUALITY but it would have costed at least 4-5 lakhs more.
In the end I just want to say that what ever TATA is offering today is very good in respect to price.
overdose14 is offline  
Old 25th November 2006, 10:09   #137
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 147
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

@hellrider .. HEAR HEAR !! could't have put it better myself.
By the way (a lil' off topic) do u have something to do with the airline industry ? just curious ..

@ elf .. i'm sooo very sorry about the punctuation .. masssssterrrrrrrrrr ..
revvhed is offline  
Old 25th November 2006, 17:30   #138
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (MH-01)
Posts: 809
Thanked: 71 Times
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post

I did a one-year "auditioning" of cars before I picked up mine. And in between every three months, when I would visit a TATA dealer, the interiors would look different. So that is a good thing for me. When the manufacturer actively deploys "patches" across the range.
Bingo!! People don't realise the constant improvements made by Tata. Forget three months, even in a month or so you see evident changes in the quality levels. For e.g. when we bought our indica, when we first visited the Tata Showroom, the indica had very poor stalks, poor quality covering on the gear knob, seat belts and so on. And when we went there after a month, voila, all these parameters had significantly improved. And Tata never made any hype and hoopla for this.
salilpawar1 is offline  
Old 25th November 2006, 23:47   #139
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Hey hell_rider, nice expression of your thoughts. I agree with you on a lot of aspects, expect that I loved the old Zen D. 20 kmpl in town, and it was a right little rocket too.

Elf and revv ka kya BDSM scene hai?
v1p3r is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 10:52   #140
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (MH-01)
Posts: 809
Thanked: 71 Times
Smile A few clarifications.

Since I had myself started this thread and it has got an overwhelming response (worth a five star rating I hope), let me clarify a few things.
  • First and foremost, I never wanted to say that we should dump all foreign brands and blindly buy Indian brands just because they are INDIAN.
  • Secondly, instead of defending our personal feelings, let's take a view on this from the point of view of a third person: for a moment let's forget that we own/love Maruti, Tata, Honda, Mitsubishi and so on.
  • I am not of the communist philosophy type saying that all non-Indian products should be dumped.
  • Last but not the least, a hint of patriotism is not that bad while buying a car. See the point is that Tata is not basking in its glory but ready to push the envelope further. If patriotism didn't exist, I guess most of the manufacturers in the world, especially the American ones, would have certainly died an early death.
Cheers.
salilpawar1 is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 11:00   #141
elf
BANNED
 
elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,034
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1 View Post
... a hint of patriotism is not that bad while buying a car. ... If patriotism didn't exist, I guess most of the manufacturers in the world, especially the American ones, would have certainly died an early death. ...
That's so true. In the 80s, & early 90s, American cars were so bad that in America, they were only bought by hard core right wing 'patriotic' rednecks. Parts literally used to fall off, entire sub-systems ceased to function, etc. etc... & I'm still talking about the cars...

Sounds familiar...?
elf is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 14:57   #142
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,054
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post

I am just very unclear on the buying criteria and decision making rationale of the dissatisfied Indica/Indigo Petrol owners.

Why on earth did you choose the Indica/Indigo petrol ?? Especially since by that time everyone was aware of the initial lot Indica horror stories and having seen so many dissatisfied cases first hand.

And unlike the diesel customers, you had a multitude of options. You had the Ford Ikon 1.3 and the 1.6, the Esteem and the Accent. In hatchbacks, too many options to list here.

So why exactly did you choose the Indica/Indigo petrol ? It can't be patriotic reasons because its already been said that patriotic considerations for choosing a car are misplaced, and which has been made abundantly clear.

Surely not because of the Indica / Indigo petrol's astounding mileage, I would say.

So why exactly ?
Was it because the Indica / Indigo petrol offered the cheapest way into a reasonably large petrol car ?

And the discounts !!! The juicy discounts on TATA petrols was just too good to resist, I would say.

So basically, in spite of better options available in the market, in the exact class and category of automobiles you were looking for, there were plenty of other options, still the Indica / Indigo petrol was chosen.

And when it did not match the refinement of the slightly higher priced options, you complain and pass derogatory comments on the manufacturer, conveniently forgetting how little you paid in the first place.

Is it because the free lunch you were looking for did not materialise ?

Something to think about, Hell, I may be wrong. But I also raised some possibilities that can be discussed, as opposed to some who are just drawing conclusions expecting it to be accepted.

We bought a petrol Indigo from Tata in good faith. We already have several cars - some higher end and some lower end - and wanted one to fill in the gap. My family believed the spiel that the Tata dealers gave them and hence bought the Indigo.

No one was angling for a "free lunch" as you put it. We didn't ask or get any massive discounts. We didn't expect anything fancy. No sportscar performance or Rolls Royce luxury. All we wanted was a car that would give us trouble free daily running and decent FE. Even that was asking for too much it turned out.

As far as unjustly comparing Indigo with cars of a higher segment or higher price, we found that even our Santros and Marutis had higher levels of refinement. While our more expensive cars, while obviously being more refined, were also much cheaper to maintain than the Indigo.

Hellrider, your language may be impressive, but your manners are not. Just because you have gotten into an emotional argument with someone doesn't mean you should write insulting posts about everyone who has ever bought a petrol Indigo and has had a bad experience. I find your comments in bad taste and frankly demeaning.

Do try and be civil.
Boom Shiva is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 16:30   #143
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 538
Thanked: 59 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva View Post
We bought a petrol Indigo from Tata in good faith. We already have several cars - some higher end and some lower end - and wanted one to fill in the gap. My family believed the spiel that the Tata dealers gave them and hence bought the Indigo.

No one was angling for a "free lunch" as you put it. We didn't ask or get any massive discounts. We didn't expect anything fancy. No sportscar performance or Rolls Royce luxury. All we wanted was a car that would give us trouble free daily running and decent FE. Even that was asking for too much it turned out.


Hellrider, your language may be impressive, but your manners are not. Just because you have gotten into an emotional argument with someone doesn't mean you should write insulting posts about everyone who has ever bought a petrol Indigo and has had a bad experience. I find your comments in bad taste and frankly demeaning.

Do try and be civil.
BoomShiva,

you will specifically note I mentioned Indigo *and* Indica petrol owners. You will also note I mentioned up-front that I fully accept your problems with the car and the frustration it must have caused.

You will also note that I have not quoted your comments with respect to Petrol Indicas / Indigos, which I would have done if I was targetting you. I have quoted other people on this thread when I have something to say to them.

I fully accept the fact that my last post might not be applicable to you. But are you seriously saying that the probablity I raised is not feasible ?? That no TATA petrol customers EVER fit that profile of customer I have described ???

You will also note that I ended saying that I might well be wrong, but at least I was stating a probablity and not one of my own conclusions.

You will also observe that this is the first really pertinent question I raised with respect to the profile of TATA customers, and it seems to have touched a raw nerve. For 8 pages long however, people have been extremely free with their mapping of the TATA customers profiles.

Is that really fair ? And do you really believe I am being emotional ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva View Post
As far as unjustly comparing Indigo with cars of a higher segment or higher price, we found that even our Santros and Marutis had higher levels of refinement. While our more expensive cars, while obviously being more refined, were also much cheaper to maintain than the Indigo.
We are back to where we started. Santros and Marutis may offer you more refinement, which I have already accepted, but there is a lot more they don't offer in terms of space and seating comfort. Ask your rear-seat passengers on a long drive, which they would prefer more, a refined Santro / Maruti, or a spacious Indica / Indigo. Its not always about the driver and his driving pleasure.

Your more expensive cars while being more refined and cheaper to maintain than the Indigo were also much costlier than the Indigo, the point I have been trying to make.

Also the fact that you compared marutis and santros and other higher priced sedans, proves yet another point I have been trying to make. There is really no product by any manufacturer you can compare with the Indigo at that price point. TATA is unique in that. You either need to drop down to better built hatchbacks or better built sedans for the comparison.

To re-iterate, I was not singling you out.

I was just making a very valid point. I am quite sure my manners are spot-on. My raising an awkward question does not render me mannerless or uncivil.

Last edited by hell_rider : 26th November 2006 at 16:32.
hell_rider is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 17:11   #144
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,054
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Your points may be valid but they could be phrased in a less provoking manner.

We bought a car in good faith. It delivered a bad experience. Refinement was the least of our issues. Basic reliability was the problem. Hence we are dissatisfied.

You've had a good experience with your car, hence you are satisfied.

Fair enough.

But why you have to write posts to the effect of:

"And when it did not match the refinement of the slightly higher priced options, you complain and pass derogatory comments on the manufacturer, conveniently forgetting how little you paid in the first place.

Is it because the free lunch you were looking for did not materialise ?"

Please do go on an write pages and pages of posts, you seem to have the talent and time on your hands to do so.

But please refrain from making blanket insinuations that question someone else's motivation for having an opinion.

"I am just very unclear on the buying criteria and decision making rationale of the dissatisfied Indica/Indigo Petrol owners"

At no point here have you indicated that you are speaking about only some and not all Indigo owners.

Whether you meant to or not, your post is directed at people like me and my family, who bought a car in good faith and do not deserve to have someone like you pass a comment on our motivation or judgement.

In the interest of having a rational debate, please utilise your vast control over the language to rephrase your line of thought in a manner that remains objective and does not play to the gallery.
Boom Shiva is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 17:39   #145
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Steeroid is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 17:46   #146
BHPian
 
Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Madras - India
Posts: 641
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Lol, that really cracked me up Steer. Can you guys atleast now get the hint ? Freedom of speech is cool, but please try and stick to the topic. Personal arguement can continue via PM please.

Also, with a topic like this, people will tend to have different opinions, some which may well hurt others sentiments. Enough has been said. Some people are happy and the others arent. Lets bring this to a civilised end.

Last edited by Sideways : 26th November 2006 at 17:50.
Sideways is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 18:18   #147
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 538
Thanked: 59 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Your points may be valid but they could be phrased in a less provoking manner.
They ARE valid. And probably, yes, they could have been worded in a less provoking manner. But I didn't see you jumping in when there were other equally unfair comments being made from the other side. You merely kept quiet or joined in with smart-alec comments like the ones below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Well I think the line is pretty clearly drawn up. There are those who are satisfied with their TATAs and there are those who won't touch one with a barge pole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
It would be nice though if they could test their cars BEFORE selling them to us.
Now those were quite unprovoking and rational, I would say.

Why is it you feel that you can dish it out because you are dissatisfied, but other people cannot retort in the same way because they are satisfied ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
We bought a car in good faith.
Sure, your purchase decision was made in good faith. But other TATA owners purchase decision, was made because they not quality conscious, they are ignorant about quality levels, and they are only concerned about cheap up-front costs and mileage, or because most TATA customers are cabbies, or the fact that their buying rationale was misplaced patriotism. I am not saying you said all of that. All of those insinuations have been made by people on this thread in different ways. I did not see you jumping in stop these people from making irrational statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
It delivered a bad experience. Refinement was the least of our issues. Basic reliability was the problem. Hence we are dissatisfied.
You've had a good experience with your car, hence you are satisfied.
Fair enough.
But why you have to write posts to the effect of:
"And when it did not match the refinement of the slightly higher priced options, you complain and pass derogatory comments on the manufacturer, conveniently forgetting how little you paid in the first place.
Is it because the free lunch you were looking for did not materialise ?"
Please do go on an write pages and pages of posts, you seem to have the talent and time on your hands to do so.
But please refrain from making blanket insinuations that question someone else's motivation for having an opinion.
Same as the above. The same blanket insinuations have been made all through this thread. People have been exactly doing what you are saying I did. That is, questioning or rather arriving at other's motivation to buy a TATA product.

While, I only raised it as a possibility, with the clear statement that I could well be wrong and that I was throwing it up for discussion. But I still don't see anyone answering that question I raised, save for the fact that you have managed to express your displeasure with that line of questioning itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
"I am just very unclear on the buying criteria and decision making rationale of the dissatisfied Indica/Indigo Petrol owners"
At no point here have you indicated that you are speaking about only some and not all Indigo owners.
I am sorry, but that is about as general a statement as one can make. I am speaking about dissatisfied Indica / Indigo Petrol owners. No qualifications.

Dissatisfied Indica / Indigo Petrol owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Whether you meant to or not, your post is directed at people like me and my family, who bought a car in good faith and do not deserve to have someone like you pass a comment on our motivation or judgement.
I did not mean to and it is not directed at people like you and your family. I asked a simple question about the buying rationale of TATA petrol customers. I also mentioned point blank that it was loaded and awkward, but a valid point nonetheless. Additionally, all of those were questions I threw up for discussion, not conclusions I reached and stated arbitrarily.

See the pattern here ?? Because one very blunt question rankled you, only because, you fall into the bracket of similar customers, you ended up taking umbrage. But the vice-versa is not applicable to satisfied TATA owners, is it ???

Like you yourself mentioned the following,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Well I think the line is pretty clearly drawn up
Now you cannot take recourse by saying “Hey, I did not make the comments you refer to.” You were a silent supporter to those comments at the very least, and it did not seem to ruffle your feathers one little bit. You seemed to be perfectly okay then. Your discomfort seems to have sprung just now as a result of one question I asked.

In this kind of discussion, if there are so many people with different views, there are bound to be questions asked, which might not always be pleasant. If that does not seem fair to you, then maybe you should have also displayed that sense of fairness when the shoe was on the other foot.

I mean seriously, if you want to go out and play in the rain, you got to be prepared to get a little wet.

Much as you'd like to believe, my post was not directed at you or any one person in particular. Its just so happened, that your post on the Indigo petrol just preceded my post. If I really wanted to target you, I could have picked up on your very initial post about your dissatisfaction with your Indigo and quoted you on that when I made my post.

But my post and point stands. At least, until someone can explain in rational terms, the factors that led them to choose a TATA petrol, I stand by my comments.

And for what its worth, saying
"I bought the car in good faith",
is just as lame as saying I bought it for patriotic reasons, if you really want to look at it objectively.

Rational reasons include some of the following:
Refinement
Quality
Spaciousness
Price
Mileage
After Sales Support
Manufacturer profile
Performance
Driving Pleasure.....

and quite a few others I am sure.

“Faith” does not cut it, just as patriotism does not cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
In the interest of having a rational debate, please utilise your vast control over the language to rephrase your line of thought in a manner that remains objective and does not play to the gallery.
I really don't think I need to do any of that. I don't think “I am playing to the gallery”. However, you are entitled to your opinion and I take no offence.

Its just that when I do have something to say, I say it like it is, especially, when everyone seems to be so liberal with their opinions and conclusions.
If it rankles someone on the other side of the fence, it is just too bad, because that is not my objective as I have clearly stated.

Once more, my post was not targeted at you. It was a general one directed at dissatisfied TATA petrol owners. It is genuinely unfortunate if you happen to be one of them. And that is not meant in a sarcastic way.

But that does not negate the validity of what I said.

I believe I have made my points and justifications to those points.

I am out of this thread.

Last edited by hell_rider : 26th November 2006 at 18:25.
hell_rider is offline  
Old 26th November 2006, 18:33   #148
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,709
Thanked: 89,162 Times
Default

'Nuff said. Take it up further via PM.

Thread closed.
GTO is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift VDI - sounding very harsh maverickzCar Technical Stuff 10 4th February 2008 11:15
Aren't We A Bit Too Harsh On DC? tidzter Modifications & Accessories 35 19th September 2007 16:32
why sound is harsh at high volume overdose14 In-Car Entertainment 21 25th July 2006 23:36
too fast too furious MODS amitverma Modifications & Accessories 16 10th March 2005 20:31


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:47.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks