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Old 11th November 2006, 21:09   #16
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Tata and Mahindra are like samosas and chaat. Just because we love Pizzas and Burgers and enjoy them often, we will still always love our samosas.
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Old 11th November 2006, 21:51   #17
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Yes.. Tata cars had many problems and still have a lot of them. I sincerely know about it and the harsh fact is that even i have gone through all of it.

I had my share of problems with my indica, weak headlamps, rusting mufflers and so on.
Shouldn't we accept the fact that the indica is vastly improved over the years. Many still remember the gory days of the pre-v2 indicas where everything used to fall off after a few kms and thus, are cynical about Tata. Just sit in a 1999 Indica and then in a 2006 Indica and then conclude for yourselves. The differences will be evident even between 2005 and 2006 models.

If MNC "experienced' and "reputed" car manufacturers produce faulty/outdated/older generation in cars in India, nobody makes much fuss about it, take for example, Honda's blurps about the City and the Accord, Mitsubishi's detiorating build quality (I know HM builds Mitsubishi but the aam junta doesn't know that), wrong postioning of hood release knob in Ford Fusion and many more.

OHC didn't have the best interiors for its price but we enthusiasts have forgotten it because we were hypnotised by its brilliant VTEC. (I am not against Honda. Infact I love Honda).
By the same logic, shouldn't we slightly excuse for its relatively lower build quality since it costs almost half of the other similarly specced cars like Swift and Getz.

The thing is that that Tata doesn't do excessive marketing about each and every upgrade. How many of us remember Tata making an ad of their major upgrade of the Indica in 2002 (this was made after the V2 was launched) where they made major changes in the suspension, brakes, structural strenghtening and so on. This is what Tata did in a country where car makers make a huge hype even when they change the wheelcaps and spoilers.

I only want to say that while u and me criticise Tata, let us take competition into consideration and not try to compare their cars with cars which are much more expensive and sometimes fall into different segments altogether. This applies for other car cars too.

Last edited by salilpawar1 : 11th November 2006 at 21:56.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:00   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Tata and Mahindra are like samosas and chaat. Just because we love Pizzas and Burgers and enjoy them often, we will still always love our samosas.
That is a nice one comparision. [OT] just ate chaat . man it tasted good.


Well we have used an indigo lx for the last 2 years. It never failed us . never had a breakdown on the middle of the road. we use it pretty roughly and it has done 72,000km in our hands.

But I can't say the same with my skoda octavia. In the last 3 months it stopped in the middle of the road thrice. . And all it did was just 55,000kms. We put it up for sale today.


One thing Tata's seem to be churning out upgrade on some model. every 4-6 months. A lot of R&D must be going on..
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:04   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
The thing is that that Tata doesn't do excessive marketing about each and every upgrade. How many of us remember Tata making an ad of their major upgrade of the Indica in 2002 (this was made after the V2 was launched) where they made major changes in the suspension, brakes, structural strenghtening and so on.
I do. There was a pretty big campaign on Indica V2. They made as much noise as any other manufacturer.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:10   #20
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Originally Posted by hondadude
Hmmm... Tata Indica has been in top 3, as far as sales numbers are concerned, for quite some time now and if the products are so bad, why would people buy them in hordes ?
most of those sales are diesels, only now after their price cutting has the petrol model started to catch up. once the 1.3L JTD comes to town(i mean in the swift), those numbers are likely to drop(probably not drastically though).

i have a soft spot for the indian companies, too. but they need to take their customers more seriously, and have a tighter control over the happennings at their dealerships.

OT:i'm just wondering how long maruti would sell a model if the international players had not come in.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:12   #21
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I don't understand what patriotism has to do with consumerism.
Does it make me more Indian if I buy Tata / Mahindra ? Not really. They are out there to make profit like any other business and if and when they make a reliable car, I will buy it. But, not at all for patriotism / jingoism, whatever.

I have been driving for 20 years now (since I was 15) and for me, the most important attribute in my vehicle (bike/car) is reliability. A car that fails in the warranty period itself (retrofits, whatever), what the heck do I expect from it over its lifetime ?

I think Boom_Shiva has put down succintly what I was thinking. No use wasting server space again.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:13   #22
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Patriotism has nothing to do with it. They're not giving you the car for free because you're Indian, you have to shell out your hard earned money. In fact, as Indians, they should feel patriotic and deliver a superior product/a.s.s. experience.

bro, patriotism is one of the reasons not the ONLY reason. Anyway Tata is making cars which are way cheaper than simarly specced cars.


Quote:
Not really. Maruti and Honda seem to have a good understanding of their markets as well.
I said Tata is one of the only manufacturers who understands the pulse of the nation.



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That's a pretty low standard, don't you think?
Why can't we compare our products with China. After all, it is China who is in direct competition with India in all fields.



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Yes, but HH bikes are bulletproof reliable and don't use you as an involuntary guinea pig.
Yes, they are reliable because they use readymade technology from Honda. Ask HH to build their own homegrown bike and let's see how they fair.


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Because we've had bad experiences or know people who have had bad experiences.
Isn't it time to move ahead and look forward to the improvements made in the susbsequent Tata models.

Quote:
We had a petrol Indigo. It's an ideal car if you like your parts breaking down every month or two, going 2-3 times a month to the service station, and then waiting 1-2 months for spare parts. In fact, our Indigo had higher maintenance costs and lower FE than any of our other cars, including Lancer and Optra.
I am not saying that Tata cars are not problematic but the good thing is that they are improving. By the way i never had to wait 1-2 months for spares.




Quote:
Agreed. But is Tata listening?
Isn't the Indica V2 / Xeta / Turbo a worthy reply for most of our problems??
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:18   #23
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i agree with salilpawar, it seems tht every product that has a foreign brand name to it is automatically better than its indian counterpart.

hell, we've had one of the first tata estates and it was not that bad at all, we have a brand new indica, there are still niggling issues, but it is a ton better than indicas of even two years back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
I do. There was a pretty big campaign on Indica V2. They made as much noise as any other manufacturer.
i think i do too, with a trio of cars jumping and stuff.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:26   #24
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Originally Posted by hondadude
That is the reason I said most of Tata bashers (as opposed to
all of Tata bashers). The word most was highlighted as well. Anyway ...
Infact, most of the TATA bashers are TATA owners themselves. Why? Because bad word about a car doesnt come from someone who doesnt own it. It comes from someone who has owned it and lived with it. Its not me as a Maruti owner or other non-TATA owners who are spreading bad word about the inconsistent quality of TATA cars, but people who have actually owned TATAs. Ofcourse, i do not mean to say that every TATA owner is dissatisfied with his/her car. In our own forum, people like Steeroid, TSK, Stratos are quite happy with it. But then there are thousands others, who are utterly pissed off with their TATA cars. Thats because TATA believes in inconsistent quality. If you are lucky, you might get a good/problem free car. If you are unlucky, then you may have to live with a problemetic car. Its like a gamble.

And Indica sells in large numbers because:
1. Taxi owners have no other choice. Padmini and ambassader are almost dead. So they are only left with the Indica because its a cheap and spacious diesel car.
2. Most of the new car buyers are not T-bhpians like you and me. The key word with Indian Janta is "Average kya hai??". It is this attitude, coupled with the fact that its a diesel, that people fall prey (if i may say that!) to it.

P.S. No offence to any Indica/TATA owner. Just test driven friends Indica Turbo yesterday, was quite impressed with the power delivery.

Last edited by DCEite : 11th November 2006 at 22:28.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:28   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
I do. There was a pretty big campaign on Indica V2. They made as much noise as any other manufacturer.
@heelntoe and boomshiva. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE V2 LAUNCHED IN 2001 NOR THE FACELIFTED V2 IN 2004. This thing was launched well after the hullaballoo of the launch of the V2. I am talking about the silent but a major upgrade made in the Indica at the beginning of the year 2002. I will tell u the exact details if i can find the relevent article from the old Overdrive magazines which i have preserved in my shelf.
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Old 11th November 2006, 22:37   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dceite

And Indica sells in large numbers because:
1. Taxi owners have no other choice. Padmini and ambassader are almost dead. So they are only left with the Indica because its a cheap and spacious diesel car.
2. Most of the new car buyers are not T-bhpians like you and me. The key word with Indian Janta is "Average kya hai??".

P.S. No offence to any Indica/TATA owner. Just test driven friends Indica Turbo yesterday, was quite impressed with the power delivery.

You answer ur problems and complaints in ur P.S. Your points 1 and 2 elaborate my statement :
Quote:
"Tata is one of the only manufacturers who understands the pulse of the nation"
Tata has been selling the V2 for five years. Are other manufacturers so pale that they are still not able to dethrone the V2 from the segment. Taxi owners are very tough customers. It is very difficult to attract them. Indicas have poor build quality but still are very rugged compared to other cars and thus have survived in the fierce taxi market where every penny spent by the owner counts.

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Old 11th November 2006, 22:42   #27
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As a Tata owner for past 6 years, (Indica and Indigo, both petrol) I am very much doubtful if my next car would be a Tata. When we first bought the Indica2000 in, well, 2000 I found it difficult to believe how even a new car could be so unbelievably crude. But it had no major issues (well, apart from the jerking problem, which exists in the Indigo as well) and ran okay for four years.
But once you start using a Tata, its hard not to get used to the space and comfort it offers. So when it was time for a replacement, we went for the Indigo.I was expecting something exactly the same, but with a boot, and hence had lowered my expectations accordingly. And I cannot, I mean, I just cannot express in words how much of an improvement it was over the Indica. The engine refinement had taken a big leap forward, so had the overall quality and feel. (All things compared to Indica). I really admire them for the continuous improvement they are striving to achieve in their products.
Also, Tata is one of the worlds youngest manufacturer of personal cars, and the Indixx platform was their very first attempt at building one. Compared to the first attempts of other "biggies", I say, this one turned out pretty good, and made decent profit too.
Even then, will I buy another Tata anytime soon? NO!
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Old 11th November 2006, 23:06   #28
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My way to look at this is, I respect Tata and Mahindra for the fact that we all know, how both the companies were some years back and how they are currently. As a fact, Mahindra was nearly sinking even after good sales of its Commanders and Marshals. The rise of the Scorpio turned the whole table. I still remember hating the Indica for everything, I used to call it a Tempo. I made fun of each and every person in my locality who bought them. Never thought, that I would have an Indica and an Indigo in some years. I feel that it is the improvement that matters. Who would have thought, that a company which makes trucks,( not even completely, they made the chassis and the coul) would make cars that would lead their own category? We still do not have a car sold as a hatchback, as a sedan and as a station wagon (except for the Corsa Sail). Some Patriotism does play a role in this. Many times, Indian companies are critisized for the quality of their products, but why not see the other side. We can appreciate the step taken by them to move forward. Today Scorpio, Indica are sold in many countries, I frankly never thought that the Indica would even have good sales in India. A glass can be called half full sometimes, rather than half empty. Just my personal thoughts, may sound orthodox to some. I am proud that I have a Tata product in my family, which is serving me without a problem.

As GTO said, I will always have a soft corner for Tata and Mahindra and may be anyother Indian company that may come up just because, "they are trying their best" !

Last edited by Stratos : 12th November 2006 at 00:01.
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Old 12th November 2006, 00:13   #29
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Ok Salil let me be honest here, all those who know me know that I have been a huge critic of TATA car's over the years despite the so-called improvements to them. Here's my assessment & reasoning for not buying a TATA product:

1. Does it have a good engine? NO
2. Does it have a good gearbox? NO
3. Are the NVH levels acceptable? NO
4. Is it a pleasure to drive? NO
5. Is it a quality product? NO
6. Does it have good interiors? NO
7. Is it a great handler? NO
8. Is it a reliable product? NO

Now why should I buy the Indica/Indigo? Simply because they are diesel-powered (horribly raucous engines for someone used to petrol) or because they are cheap?

I simply could not justify buying any of the products from the TATA stable with my heard-earned money. And I agree completely with Boom Shiva regarding this. Patriotism is alright but remember TATA is out to make a profit in the market & by selling these cars they aren't doing you a favour for being an Indian. And you shouldn't reciprocate that too.

I will buy an Indian car when it's worth it with good enough abilities to rule the market segment, before that I'll stick to whatever is a better product. Till then I'll say that TATA/Mahindra products are below acceptable standards & not worth spending your hard-earned cash on. Simply because they are cheap & diesel powered does not make them a good product.

And as far improvements to Indica/Indigo/Safari are concerned it's a "Andhon mein Kaana Raja situation", since you know the bugger who bought the car before you is in a worse position than you so you make yourself happy by convincing yourself that atleast better off than the chap who bought the last generation!!
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Old 12th November 2006, 00:15   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajo
Even then, will I buy another Tata anytime soon? NO!
This one-liner says it all.
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