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Old 12th November 2006, 15:32   #61
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@Steeroid, zenx: In which case I apologise, retract my statement about their customer care & A.S.S., & now stand corrected.

Maybe it is time to take another look at Tata, individual horror stories on the forum & elsewhere notwithstanding...

Last edited by elf : 12th November 2006 at 15:34.
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Old 12th November 2006, 15:55   #62
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It would be nice though if they could test their cars BEFORE selling them to us.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:03   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
I think you should know that when the V2 was launched Tata announced that all existing customers would be eligible for retrofits to carry out most of the changes in the first lot of cars.

They still do this - how many manufacturers pass on improvements to customers that had bougth the product earlier? For free?
Agreed Steeroid that they are pro-active in fixing niggles with their products but that doesn't negate that fact that they launch their vehicles "under-developed" in the market. No other car maker apart from Mahindra does that. Why do they rely on the customers to test the cars & ask for remedies to numerous teething issues or niggling problems?

Even you Dicor had numerous issues & parts replaced. Wouldn't it be a million times better if they had taken care of all this before releasing the car in the market? Imagine how much down time in the garage would have been saved for you. I would personally hate to go to the garage so many times to fix issues with my brand-new car.

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Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
It would be nice though if they could test their cars BEFORE selling them to us.
Couldn't agree more with you.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:08   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
Agreed Steeroid that they are pro-active in fixing niggles with their products but that doesn't negate that fact that they launch their vehicles "under-developed" in the market. No other car maker apart from Mahindra does that. Why do they rely on the customers to test the cars & ask for remedies to numerous teething issues or niggling problems?
My reply was in response to elf's specific comment. It did not relate to the issues that you mention in your post, all of which are valid.

As for those issues, I MAY have avoided them by paying Rs.5 lakhs more for an equivalent piece of machinary from another manufacturer. As far as I'm concerned, 6 visits to the garage are not worth Rs.5 lakhs. If the Tucson was available for about 2 lakhs more I'd have gone for it, but the fact was that it was Rs.5 lakhs more at least.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:23   #65
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Steeroid, I have to disagree. Safari is not an equivalent piece of machinery to the Tucson. Except for being larger and therefore more space, it pretty much gets blown out of the water on all parameters of safety, refinement and performance, on and off the road. Hyundai are charging more but it is also really a much better car.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:26   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Steeroid, I have to disagree. Safari is not an equivalent piece of machinery to the Tucson. Except for being larger and therefore more space, it pretty much gets blown out of the water on all parameters of safety, refinement and performance, on and off the road. Hyundai are charging more but it is also really a much better car.
Why do you insist on taking everything so literally? And why do you get so worked up - I thought I was the one that spent the money?

There is no need to get worked up and start picking holes based on semantics. Relax.

I was in the market for a 4WD with more room and good highway capabilities. I took a lot of feedback from here and elsewhere before I put my money down on a Tata vehicle - the two other vehicles considered before it were the Hyundai Tucson and then the Toyota Innova.

I have not had the perfect experience, but my experience has been pretty good all the same. I'd be more than willing to plonk down 10 more big ones on the new 2.2 Dicor if I could.

Last edited by Steeroid : 12th November 2006 at 16:30.
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Old 12th November 2006, 16:34   #67
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Sorry baba, wasn't possible to know if you were being literal or no.

I'm not worked up, just making a point.

And you're not the only person who has spent time and money on a Tata product, my family has too, and I've wasted enough working days in Tata workshops getting jacked around.

The big lesson we learnt is that it's worth it spend a bit more on a better product from another manufacturer, rather than own a cheaper Tata at the cost of your time, effort and peace of mind.
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Old 12th November 2006, 19:14   #68
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As a 2nd time TATA owner, I have to say hat they are getting more flak than is due to them. I actually sold my Tata car and bought another one. So I guess you could say that my experience has benn "RELATIVELY" happy. I've had cars from Hyundai, HM, Maruti, Daewoo, Fiat and Tata, so maybe I can speak a little loudly.
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Old 12th November 2006, 19:19   #69
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My take on this:
1. Tatas make VFM cars, with acceptable levels of quality and reliability(otherwise you would not see increasing monthly sales numbers). Every product in this world is good for it's price and the price tata charges for their cars is very tempting considering the overall package.
2. Tata cars had/have niggling issues, because they always tried to produce cheap(price wise) cars for majority of middle class indians and in the process tried to use cheap(quality wise) parts, because most of the issues are generaly with third party parts and their integration, which they understood and since then continuously improving upon it, but still keeping the overall cost down. Otherwise it would have been no brainer for them to use good quality parts and price it higher. It was chicken and egg situation. Produce great quality car with higher price tag, which nobody would buy because of zero brand image or produce good quality(they must have thought it to be) car with lower price tag. They did the later and succeded.
3.Most of the tata's cars sold are diesel and diesel are meant to be driven more, as the first question asked while choosing a diesel car is, how much do you drive every month. Point is, the cars which are driven more, are always put to more tougher situations rather than the ones(petrol), which are driven less hence face less trouble situations comparitivley. So I think, the problems faced over the distance travelled by a tata car will not be higher by a great margin than any other manufacturer's car. Taxi walas can testify this.
4. I agree to the point that most of the tata bashers are not first hand owners but they hear stories from others and they consider the problems narrated to them as huge whereas for the original owner it was miniscule. Because I feel, word of mouth spreads fastest, if that has not stopped people buying tata cars, that means there is definitely something in them which put them above other cars.
5. Last but not the least, here at t-bhp, I have generally noticed, any issues with Indian manu. cars are blown out of proportion whereas similar or more severe issues with other cars are discussed in more passive manner and discussion does not go beyond issue to manufacturer as is the case with Indian manufacturers.

So I agree, we here are definitely too harsh on Tatas.
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Old 12th November 2006, 19:27   #70
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Why are you guys comparing the sales of tata diesel with Maruti petrol or the Hyundai petrol powered cars ?I dont see any rationalism here .

The Tata Indica should be compared with ambassador diesel and thats the only vehicle I can think of in this segment . Why isnt there a comparision btwn the petrol models of Tata and the petrol powered models of Maruti and Hyundai ?

If you ever happen to travel in a village or rural area ,just ask any one out there -which is the best car ambassador or benz ..he /she would promplty tell you that an ambassador is the best car in the world . Most of the populace in india is largely uneducated and they associate things ,than actually know what is good or not good .

Buying Tata cars is akin to votin for congress - Both survive on the family name and nothing else . The congress has the Gandhi family to save them and the Tata Group has the Tata name to save them . Ironically these families are homogeneous globally - they have married foreigners and I sincerely dont know if they are as patriotic as much as the general masses .

The Tatas have not only been fooling the masses in the passenger segment - take the case of vsnl . Vsnl was supposed to have cash reserves worth 1400 cr and how much did the Tatas buy the company for ?
I have a Vsnl connection and believe me I had complained to vsnl abt 2 weeks back and I am yet to receive a call for the complaint whuich I had registered .I know its off topic to bring in this - but the company management isnt responsible enough to actually find out if they are on par with the customer satisfaction / service levels .

I also have another benchmark for myself - whenver I see a TVS brand name on any component of the car ,i kind of automatically take the end product as a substandard product - The safari ,indica has self motors ,alternators ,engine bearings ,pistons ,valves ,gear blanks ,suspensions from TVS and may be thats the reason Tata Vehciles suck . Unless Tata finds another component supplier I dont think things would actually change .

I take bends at 80km/hr on my Maruti 800 ,but when I try the same thing it gives me the scare of my life . I know Tata cars are basically meant for transporting rather than performance or refinements ,but any diesel car is normally expected to be used on highways and the sppeds could be btwn 60-120 km/hr . How does Tata expect its passengers to survive ,given the bottoming of the car on sharp bends ?
Being patriotic does not mean you support blindly by buying products just because its been made in India .

Similar is the case with Mahindra vehicles - Why would I buy a car which Has evolved from a jeep at 9 plus lakhs ?I wouldnt pay 9 lakhs to end my life ,rather i could do it with a simple bottle of poision ..lol ..I know my life isnt so cheapo
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Old 12th November 2006, 19:44   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmana2000
Buying Tata cars is akin to votin for congress - Both survive on the family name and nothing else . The congress has the Gandhi family to save them and the Tata Group has the Tata name to save them . Ironically these families are homogeneous globally - they have married foreigners and I sincerely dont know if they are as patriotic as much as the general masses .
This thread was getting serious. Thanks for providing us with some laughter.
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Old 12th November 2006, 20:01   #72
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why are you guys comparing the sales of tata diesel with Maruti petrol or the Hyundai petrol powered cars ?I dont see any rationalism here .
They are being compared to validate the acceptable quality and relaibility of Tata cars.
<br>
Quote:
The Tata Indica should be compared with ambassador diesel and thats the only vehicle I can think of in this segment . Why isnt there a comparision btwn the petrol models of Tata and the petrol powered models of Maruti and Hyundai ?
There were others like zen D, Palio D and they could not stand the test of time. For comparison between petrol models, I think, we will not have to wait for very long, considering continuous cost cutting in their xeta model.
<br>
Quote:
If you ever happen to travel in a village or rural area ,just ask any one out there -which is the best car ambassador or benz ..he /she would promplty tell you that an ambassador is the best car in the world . Most of the populace in india is largely uneducated and they associate things ,than actually know what is good or not good .
I think, you must be knowing which is the best one, but would you buy the best for the price it will come?
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Old 12th November 2006, 20:23   #73
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Buying Tata cars is akin to votin for congress - Both survive on the family name and nothing else . The congress has the Gandhi family to save them and the Tata Group has the Tata name to save them . Ironically these families are homogeneous globally - they have married foreigners and I sincerely dont know if they are as patriotic as much as the general masses .
Do you think that the Indian customers are such big FOOLS that they buy tata cars just because of the name TATA? See in any way a brand is a brand. Why do u think people buy the New Honda City even when it is not good looking (as per general opinion), has a mediocre engine (1.5 IDSi when compared to the competition / OHC), is overpriced for a C-segment saloon? They sell because of HONDA. Because after the likes of M-Benz, BMW, Rolls-Royce, Audi and so on, HONDA carries the biggest snob value in the country. I wonder how many Citys would have been sold if EXACTLY the same car would have been sold with the badge of an Indian Manufacturer?

Quote:
The Tatas have not only been fooling the masses in the passenger segment - take the case of vsnl . Vsnl was supposed to have cash reserves worth 1400 cr and how much did the Tatas buy the company for ?
I have a Vsnl connection and believe me I had complained to vsnl abt 2 weeks back and I am yet to receive a call for the complaint whuich I had registered .I know its off topic to bring in this - but the company management isnt responsible enough to actually find out if they are on par with the customer satisfaction / service levels .
Why are u bringing Tata's other enterprises into the picture? to say the least. Tata-VSNL and Tata Motors are completely independent of each other.

Quote:
I also have another benchmark for myself - whenver I see a TVS brand name on any component of the car ,i kind of automatically take the end product as a substandard product - The safari ,indica has self motors ,alternators ,engine bearings ,pistons ,valves ,gear blanks ,suspensions from TVS and may be thats the reason Tata Vehciles suck . Unless Tata finds another component supplier I dont think things would actually change .
Is TVS really such a bad company, please give me concrete reasons for that?

Quote:
I take bends at 80km/hr on my Maruti 800 ,but when I try the same thing it gives me the scare of my life . I know Tata cars are basically meant for transporting rather than performance or refinements ,but any diesel car is normally expected to be used on highways and the sppeds could be btwn 60-120 km/hr . How does Tata expect its passengers to survive ,given the bottoming of the car on sharp bends ?
Being patriotic does not mean you support blindly by buying products just because its been made in India .
Who told u that the Indica is a very bad handler? It is definitely a better handler than Maruti 800, Alto, Santro, Wagon R any day? OD's former editor had once said that the Indica V2 (2002-spec) is one of the best handling hatches in India. We have effortless cruised at speeds in the region of 100-120kph in our Indica petrol on our Mumbai-Pune runs... About bottoming out, it is usually the owners especially the taxi operators who overload their Indicas beyond limit. In fact i would go on to say that indica has a relatively stiff suspension and is very good for indian highways.

Last edited by aah78 : 13th November 2006 at 23:08.
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Old 12th November 2006, 20:48   #74
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If you ever happen to travel in a village or rural area ,just ask any one out there -which is the best car ambassador or benz ..he /she would promplty tell you that an ambassador is the best car in the world . Most of the populace in india is largely uneducated and they associate things ,than actually know what is good or not good
Quote:
Similar is the case with Mahindra vehicles - Why would I buy a car which Has evolved from a jeep at 9 plus lakhs ?I wouldnt pay 9 lakhs to end my life ,rather i could do it with a simple bottle of poision ..lol ..I know my life isnt so cheapo
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude
This thread was getting serious. Thanks for providing us with some laughter.
I agree dude. Greatman, thanks for sharing your very interesting thoughts.

Last edited by sivadas : 12th November 2006 at 20:50.
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Old 12th November 2006, 21:17   #75
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YES, we are too harsh on TATA. We all keep on complaing about Tata cars and their troublesome nature but we don't see that for 3.5 Lakhs no one else has or can give a car that is so mcuh VFM. me being a Tata car owner ( presently 2006 Indica and use to own DICOR ) has not face even a single problem so far. i know atleast 10 people who are 2nd time owner of a TATA car and are very happy with their TATA's. DICOR was fine for me ( ya performance was bit low). many people won't even do 0-100 in thier whole life and they are in majority. they won't give a damn about that ( i still see more 1.9 octavia). Ask any indian to spend a little more out of his hard earned money and then wait for his reply, you'll get a nice awnser. Yes fiat,merc and Skoda make GREAT diesel cars but everything else also got GREAT price tag attached with them right from service to spare part.
in the end its all up to personal liking and experience.
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