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Old 24th November 2006, 02:42   #121
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stop acting like a wounded doe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
So basically you're trying to tell me that your main criterion for buying a car is whether how cheap it is & how fuel efficient it is right? Well I'm assuming by your above comments that you use your car only as a tool for meeting your transportation needs. Nothing more than that.
No. That is the assumption you have chosen to make. And to a large extent everyone does actually do that, relative to his requirements and budget. Its all relative. Me, I tried to find a balance as much as I could within the budget and spec I needed.

I was very clear I wanted a hatchback and it had to be a diesel because I foresaw a very heavy daily running. The TCIC Indica I drive was better than the normal indica, in build quality, power, and mileage and come with better accessories.

Additionally, I was all set to go for the Palio diesel. But FIAT's Kurla plant shut down post the 26/7 rains. I waited close to 2 months. I was then informed that production might not re-start until well into first quarter of 2006.By December 2005, certain domestic and professional compulsions forced my hand and I ended up picking up my TCIC Indica in December, because there simply was no other option from the other "refined and quality manufacturers", save for the Skoda, which was beyond my budget. I could not even wait till January, so that I could at least have a 2006 model, which many advised would help me with resale value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
Well for me my cars are my love, my passion & my soul. I care about them more than I care for anything else. I spend MY money to buy them so I have every right in the world to set my own criteria for purchase.
Actually its pretty much the same for every car buyer irrespective of what car he buys. But you didn't think of how condescending your following comment sounds like to these people, did you ??? I quote your comment below to refresh your memory. The "bugger" was an especially sensitive touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
And as far improvements to Indica/Indigo/Safari are concerned it's a "Andhon mein Kaana Raja situation", since you know the bugger who bought the car before you is in a worse position than you so you make yourself happy by convincing yourself that atleast better off than the chap who bought the last generation!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
If I value NVH, Good Engine & Gearbox, Pleaure to drive & Good Handling & am prepared to pay a little more for it how does it make me an Elitist? And how does it make me Irrational?
No it doesn't. but you could just as well made your point by saying,

"I am used to and / or want better refinement levels. I don't think TATA products offer those levels. So I chose to / would choose to go for Brand A /B / C. even though I have to pay more for such levels of refinement."

But no. You had to rub TATA's nose in the dust to force your point that you were above the TATA owners. What was the need for that ?? And now suddenly you are getting all pedantic about the points I have made.

Additionally, the comparisons and examples you have provided are absolutely incorrect, misleading and entirely self-serving. I quote your comments again for your benefit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
I recently drove a new Indigo SX (bought by a friend) and was apalled at the NVH levels. While in traffic standing idle there was so much engine noise even above the Stereo that I had to switch off the engine otherwise I would have gone crazy.
I refuse to believe this. Maybe you felt you were going crazy because your friend must have been blasting crappy music that sounded like that on a crappy car audio system. Feel free to drop over for a drive in my Indica. NVH levels are exactly as they were I drove out of the showroom. Apart from the slight diesel hum, there is no noise seeping into the cabin. And if you still can't hear my stereo, I'll happily drive you down to my ENT specialist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
And had a ride in an Esteem Diesel a few weeks back while being taken to the airport & the NVH atleast from the back seat was pretty decent, better then the Indigo anyday.

The engine, gearbox, steering, driving dynamics etc. were also highly disappointing even if you compare the car to something like an Esteem which as we all know is an OLD product.
What an amazingly irresponsible and uninformed blanket statement. Especially in light of the fact that you arrived at this conclusion after comparison with an Esteem diesel. Lets see how many of the TATA bashers are with you on this. The above two comments alone kind of proves how much of a bias you are carrying, and how utterly clear your lack of objectivity is.

Of course, I am sure you also found the Esteem's rear seat more spacious and comfortable than the Indigo's. Kind of surprised you failed to mention that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for your YES to all my questions, if you think that your Indica has a good engine, gearbox, handling etc.
I do not think. I believe so. I never said they are the best. But they are pretty damn good for what the car costs. I don't think you have driven any of the cars rolling out these days with a fair and open mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
You really need to stretch your view & see how much the car market has progressed. The Indica lags behind its rivals on all those fronts by a margin. You want proof of that I will give you that too.
You really need to climb off your high horse. I have extensively driven cross country in a number of countries around the world. I have driven Mercedes E240s, 2400cc V6 Protons, Mitsubishi EVOs and the like. I regularly use Endeavors, Fusions, Accents and NHCs in Mumbai. Don't think for one moment, I am going to sit and listen to you lecturing me on refinement or power or quality charateristics in a car one should look for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for my rationale on passing judgement on Diesel cars well I've driven everyone of them which is on sale in India & a few abroad too. Also a very close friend owned one of the very early first generation diesel Indica's (which he incidentally bought at a premium of 60k) & some of the others have owned a few more down the line with the latest being a top-of-the-line Indigo SX. The experience in all of them was similar really sorry & noisy engine, poor gearbox & really really bad dynamics & NVH. Now the friend who bought the first-generation Indica had the following problems - 4 sets of tyres were consumed within 50k because the front suspension problems were never sorted out properly by TATA. The fan belt noise never went away despite repeated efforts & changing of various parts by the company. The engine & gearbox once mysteriously shifted oh so slightly out of their designated mountings as my friend's brother drove a bit too fast over a speed-breaker & were repaired under warranty by the company. Infact he had so may problems his father has wowed never to buy a TATA product again. That experience good enough for you for my rationale? Or you want more examples?
Sure. So this experience of your friend gives you carte-blanche to pass judgement about the manufacturer and pass judgement about the buying rationale and quality consciousness of millions of TATA customers.

If you believe giving examples proves your point, would you retract your stand if I can show you 10 satisfied TATA owners for every disgruntled owner you get me ?

If that is not acceptable to you, then you should save your breath and stop beating on "my friend this..." and "my friend that..." grandfather/grandmother stories to prove your unsubstantiated claims.

Read my comment on Sony's battery recall above. Thats how much importance I give to your "conclusive example".

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for your point about Fuel Efficiency & one of my Imported Petrol cars doing it. Well agreed none of the cars I like that can probably achieve that figure but did you notice by any chance that I never mentioned FE as one of my priorities on my list?
Exactly. Its not a priority for you. But it is, for countless other people. Why is it that you cannot respect their priorities and that fact that your petrol car is incapable of providing them (us actually) what they are looking for. Why is it that you feel the compulsive need to beat on their choice ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
I drive my cars for pleasure not for countings how many cents I saved each day by driving a diesel-powered bullock cart. And in any case atleast in one of the petrol powered cars I wouldn't arrive at my destination half-deaf.
There...another of your snotty, arrogant statements. This, my friend is what is elitist. Your priority is important. But other's priorities deserve your trashing. How rational too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
All they manage to do right now is produce a cheap car which runs on diesel & seems to make some people very happy who value their running costs above anything else.
Theres that arrogant attitude again. That only you have the ability to understand quality and everyone else is just marginal. And you talk as if worrying about it is a sin or crime, worthy of ostracization. Ever consider that some people have no choice but to worry about it ?

Or maybe given your attitude, you believe such people are better off not owning cars at all, and you are simply pissed off that so many other people can drive as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for improvements well yes TATA's cars have gone through a lot more upgrades then any other manufacturers and there's a good reason for it. I don't know if you've read well enough but that's because TATA has developed a habit of launching under-developed cars and then using us the buying public as guinea pigs or the R&D department for them. So if you're gonna save cost on R&D in the first place obviously you're gonna have to shell out for it when your customers come after you. As proof of this I suggest you go through the amount of part replacements & upgradation Steeroid's Dicor went through within the first 20,000kms. here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...d-20000km.html (Tata Safari Dicor updated to 20000km)
The extra updates do not only show pro-activeness but also show that the car had much more problems than normal & hence had to be improved in order to remain saleable. TATA has to improve the fundamnetals of it's products simply because they were screwed up in the first place. If they spent a little more time & money getting them right in the first place they wouldn't have had such a bad name & reputation. Infact the advice most given out for TATA products is that you should wait for 2 years after a new product is launched & then buy it. That ways all the problems that they inherently have will probably have been sorted out.
Crap. Most foreign manufacturers, do not even have the guts to build the initial batches here. They bring down the cars in CKD and assemble it here. Its only later that they start building it ground up in India. Among Indian manufacturers, Maruti does that even now, for a large number of its components. And almost all of the engines in their early years were not built actually by Maruti. I am not sure if they are doing the engines and gearboxes even now.

At least hand it to TATA for the courage to put their reputation on their line and appreciate the fact that they have made it possible for the average India Joe or Jitu to own a car that does not cost an arm and a leg, is not the size of a milk carton, and doesn't cost a kidney in running costs. But these are the other important aspects in the light of this discussion you conveniently choose to ignore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
About the Mercedes & Skoda please go through the threads there are enough people including me clearly stating there that the products are flawed and warning other people to be wary. In fact I find myself regularly warning people considering the Skoda to be very wary of it's high maintenance. So please do not accuse us of double standards before confirming the facts. There are enough balanced people here despite what you think. And please do a search for Skoda threads & you'll find a lot of them where there is a fair amount of bashing going on.

Coming to Ford & Maruti please go back ready my posts & see if I've recommended them. I've always had a gripe with them for various reasons. And it's purely on merit, like for Ford I LOVED the Mondeo & still do. It's a fabulous product let down by the maintenance costs. As for the demister Maruti provides it on its cars costing around 4lacs too like the Zen, WagonR etc.
I never said you recommended these brands. I was just pointing out problems with other manufacturers too.

And speaking of Honda, I am sure you remember how gracious Honda was post 26/7, when it pulled back warranties for all flood-damaged cars, even for those customers who had paid for extended 3-year warranties. I am sure you found that ethical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for the Santro well we've owned two with one still serving as my mother's current car. I've never had issues with it with regards to the refinement, engine or gearbox. It is certainly not underpowered even with 5 people & definitely not when compared to the diesel Indica. I don't know what you drove but how do you touch your knees on both sides of the car when sitting? I didn't quite understand what you meant here.
If you do not find that Santro underpowered compared to an Indica TCIC, and if you don't feel that the Santro is cramped compared to the Indica, or that the Indica does not handle better than the Santro, then frankly, you should not be arguing on an automobile forum.

What I meant, by the way, was my right knee bumping against the door / handle area and right leg to the side of area between the steering and the AC control and stereo housing.


So you see the pattern here ???? You did not have a space problem, a power problem or posture problem, so the Santro has to be good. But in-spite of other people feeling the same way about the Indica, the Indica still has got to be bad, because you think so.

Grow up dude. Mature discussions are made based on measurements, facts, figures and verifiable data. Not on cock and bull stories about conveniently unverifiable "friends" or other such people. Get a ruler and measure areas inside both cars. Buy a decibel meter and measure NVH levels. Take a high speed turn in both cars and arrive at handling characteristics. Of course, make sure you try it first on the Indica, coz, you may well not come off safe and sound after trying it in the Santro.

Considering you are so stung to the quick, you must stop for a moment before you go spouting off. If there is a better way to make your point without trying to trash anything else, always do so.

Best Regards,
hell_rider

Last edited by hell_rider : 24th November 2006 at 03:00.
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Old 24th November 2006, 02:48   #122
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Originally Posted by dr fate View Post
Come on my friend this is rather too harsh!!many here like me own multiple cars along with a tata and its my opinion that passion seen in the "inputs"may ALSO be there due to personal experience,

comparisons with similarly priced products are the reasons why such topics arise which is healthy not wrong!

is it wrong for me to compare my innova with my dicor though similarly priced and say it is comparable in quality!!!!then where did my money go?

is it wrong for me to get frustrated with umpteen visits to the workshop for v.v silly reasons just because some YOBO would not assemble his products with expected and required concentration but wants as much price as his international rivals?IT is OUR HARD EARNED MONEY even putting my best patriotic foot my head and heart and TIME fell extremly betrayed!!

despite this many of us are tata owners..heck some of us are even associated with it and am very happy as long as its trouble free......but when the trouble starts and it is not justified like all things in life we have right to comment on it,

i really love TATA(in my case safari)but not what i have to pay to get what i get.

come on , dr.fate. I am not a TATA fanatic. Heck, its not even about the car anymore. Its just the attitude that pi**es me off.

I am the first to acknowledge the areas where TATA can improve. I have stated that too in a couple of posts here where it has been relevant. I know TATA cars have issues.

But there are so many other positives they offer, which are all being conveniently glossed over.

I know TATA cars are not the be-all and end-all. But that doesn't mean they are worthy of the crap being unloaded on them.
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Old 24th November 2006, 03:19   #123
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Hell_rider & iraghava,

I think both your opinions have been expressed and are very clear to the rest of the members reading this thread.

The only confusion that may still exist is between the two of you.

Lets end the public discussion between the two of you on this note.

cya
R
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Old 24th November 2006, 03:33   #124
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Perfectly acceptable to me Rehaan.

In any case, I realise this debate is getting dangerously close to breaking the Code of Conduct here and I really have no desire to cross that line.

Regards,
Hell_rider
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Old 24th November 2006, 06:15   #125
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@hellrider ... first of all .. ur brilliantly expressive and ur english is impeccable .. i really enjoyed reading all ur posts .. and i have to say that i'm with you .. i'm not gonna go over everything again but hey .. give TATA their due .. problems notwithstanding .. they're the first all Indian Car Manufacturer who had the guts to go it the hard way and not just tie up with someone else and begin by assembling cars that had already had their R & D done in some other country by some other manufacturer .. i read some references to Skoda in some previous posts .. does anyone remember the illustrious antecedents of Skoda ?? Heck .. they had spawned a whole series of Skoda jokes back then .. remember the funny cars they made ?? and look at them now .. Everyone has a learning curve and a teething period .. some more than others .. and that does'nt necessarily make them "crap" .. TATA are already showing vast improvement .. something they have done voluntarily on their own .. from their own need to strive for a better product .. from continuous R & D .. they have'nt been resting on their laurels .. the V2 sold like hot cakes from the time it was launched .. then why invest in further R & D and come up with the Turbo ?? why not just sell as many V2s as possible and keep raking in the moolah as long as it comes .. like maruti did with the 800 if u remember .. when did maruti finally even facelift the 800 ?? why ?? i think we need to look at these things before we blindly criticise a manufacturer .. and when one compares TATA to other manufacturers it would do well to bear in mind that it is the only all Indian car manufacturer with a varied lineup .. from a hatch, to a sedan, to a station wagon, to an MUV, to an SUV .. Mahindra only makes the same old Jeep variants (that it has for years) and one new vehicle .. the Scorpio .. where it can devote all it's R & D resources .. and correct me if i'm wrong .. the Scorpio engine is Renault sourced ..
oops this started out as a few lines .. ok i'll cease here ..

@elf .... hilarious as usual .. had me in splits .. i don't believe he did'nt get it ....
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Old 24th November 2006, 11:26   #126
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Well I think the line is pretty clearly drawn up. There are those who are satisfied with their TATAs and there are those who won't touch one with a barge pole.

All new buyers will eventually fall into one or the other category.

As far as being "harsh" goes, I believe you are entitled to it if you are being jerked around after you've spent your hard earned money, be it a TATA or a Mercedes. Enough threads have been put up on bad Skodas, Mercs, Fords etc. Just because a manufacturer is Indian doesn't give them a licence to get away with it.
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Old 24th November 2006, 13:31   #127
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@revvhed: First of all, your post was terrible. Try using punctuation. And the term, presumably is "you are" & not "ur". And no, I don't think hell_rider has time for my sidey one-liners.

To put this topic to rest, let the following now be declared (as town crier, I have certain rights )

1. iraghava is an elitist pile of dookie because he drives a ratty old Honda City & he's proud of it;
2. hell_rider has no taste, hearing or brains because he has a Tata; and
3. you don't have a hope in hell because you park your Esteem under a gravity enhanced coconut tree.

I drive a Lancer, which is the best car in the world. And the sun shines out of my After Sales Service.

So there.
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Old 24th November 2006, 13:54   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva View Post
Just because a manufacturer is Indian doesn't give them a licence to get away with it.
True. And nothing can be more illogical than linking someone's patriotism with the car that he/she chooses to buy. Those that advocate it should seriously look up the term 'patriotism'. Buying Indian was a sensible idea when we were under foreign rule, in that it gave us a weapon to fight the Brits. Today, its a global economy and Tata is just another manufacturer.

Regarding the comment that Tata-bashers rely on "so-called" friend's sob stories to bash away, well, no one can afford to make all the mistakes himself. Its wiser to learn from the mistakes of those around you. And in this case, it is not just stories from a friend's friend. We have owner reviews on tbhp itself that detail the visits to the garage and the parts changed etc. And all of this in the warranty period and within days/weeks of buying a new car. If this does not shed light on the reliability (or lack of it) of a car, I am not sure what will.
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Old 24th November 2006, 14:35   #129
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I bought a 1993 Maruthi 1000 in 1999 for Rs.1.65 Lakhs, a steal at that time. it had 45k on the odo. i used/abused the vehicle to its limits for 4 years. i drove more than a lakh kms in that car in those 4 years, mostly on bad fuel, LPG, very bad roads, v.poor maintanence (Never followed a schedule) etc. In 2003, i sold it for 95 K. Inspite of my abuse, the car broke down just one single day & the matter was a blown fuse that was resolved within 40 mins & for a few punctures when my MRF tyres were exposing the steel belts. we can argue that the 1000 has the worst pick up or it is a dated model which is still being sold with a 1.3L engine & that maruthi is taking the indian buyers for a ride blah blah blah. Now this is called V A L U E. If anybody thinks that Indica is VFM, then think again after reading this. It returned a mileage of 12 Kmpl in the city & 18 Kmpl on the highway. Overall, i would have spent 25k in the 4 years for its maintenance.
1. i had to do the clutch - 4k
2. changed the brake booster stuff 3.5 k
3. change the alternator regulator. 3 k
4. i had to repaint a door because one scooterist found it to be the safe
place to fall when a lorry hit him from behind. 2k
5. i had to repaint the tail as an errant sumo reversed his butt into my
tail. 2k
6. refill the ac gas a couple of times. 1.5k
7. replaced the tyres once. 9k

the figures given above are rough. i dont remember exactly. i have all those bills though. i hear that car is still running beautifully, my mechanic in hosur says. how is that for VFM ?
I am sure many Maruti owners can say the same thing that i have said. i would love to hear a TATA owner have a similar experience. TATA is still W-I-P, Maruti may be old, drab & boring, but it is a F.P. cheers

Last edited by esteem_lover : 24th November 2006 at 14:40.
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Old 24th November 2006, 17:37   #130
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I bought a 1993 Maruthi 1000 in 1999 for Rs.1.65 Lakhs, a steal at that time. it had 45k on the odo. i used/abused the vehicle to its limits for 4 years. i drove more than a lakh kms in that car in those 4 years, mostly on bad fuel, LPG, very bad roads, v.poor maintanence (Never followed a schedule) etc. In 2003, i sold it for 95 K. Inspite of my abuse, the car broke down just one single day & the matter was a blown fuse that was resolved within 40 mins & for a few punctures when my MRF tyres were exposing the steel belts. we can argue that the 1000 has the worst pick up or it is a dated model which is still being sold with a 1.3L engine & that maruthi is taking the indian buyers for a ride blah blah blah. Now this is called V A L U E. If anybody thinks that Indica is VFM, then think again after reading this. It returned a mileage of 12 Kmpl in the city & 18 Kmpl on the highway. Overall, i would have spent 25k in the 4 years for its maintenance.
1. i had to do the clutch - 4k
2. changed the brake booster stuff 3.5 k
3. change the alternator regulator. 3 k
4. i had to repaint a door because one scooterist found it to be the safe
place to fall when a lorry hit him from behind. 2k
5. i had to repaint the tail as an errant sumo reversed his butt into my
tail. 2k
6. refill the ac gas a couple of times. 1.5k
7. replaced the tyres once. 9k

the figures given above are rough. i dont remember exactly. i have all those bills though. i hear that car is still running beautifully, my mechanic in hosur says. how is that for VFM ?
I am sure many Maruti owners can say the same thing that i have said. i would love to hear a TATA owner have a similar experience. TATA is still W-I-P, Maruti may be old, drab & boring, but it is a F.P. cheers
Phew... Hey hell do you think this is even worth replying to?
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Old 24th November 2006, 17:53   #131
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To re-iterate the point I was trying to make:

No one including myself would contest the fact that there are many areas where TATA can improve.

I repeat as I have stated above. I am not a TATA zealot. I have highlighted some of the problems earlier and will do so in my long term review of my car.

I completely accept that TATA cars offer lower levels of refinements as compared to other manufacturers.

All I was saying was everything needs to considered in context. Its a bit unfair if isolated points are pulled out of the whole set of inter-related factors and used to further a belief.

I am not discounting fellow members' bad experiences with TATA and the heartburn it would have undoubtedly caused you. Heck, for all you know, my car could start developing problems tomorrow, and I'll be right here bitching and moaning about it.

But that doesn't mean everything about the manufacturer is bad.

But I take exception to the way the demographic breakup and buying rationale of the TATA customers has been projected on this thread. As follows:

TATA customers have only low up-front cost and mileage as their prime consideration.
Not true. As mentioned above, TATA provides a car in a class (diesel hatchback and diesel sedan) that no other manufacturer offers competing products in especially the price range. This is a factor that is consistently overlooked.

TATA customers don't really care about quality.
I doubt if any customer anywhere in the world would not care about the quality of his new purchase. At least, relatively to the cost of the car, there is a certain quality that is expected.

Now the interesting part here is that the insinuation has been made that TATA sells because of patriotic fervor and their customer's low weightage assigned to quality.

Looking at it the other way, can it also be said that:

Satisfied TATA customers are those who have bought TATA cars fully aware of the quality levels it can offer as compared to the bester refined options available, and are therefore not dissatisfied, especially when considered with the price paid and subsequent low running costs.

And lets say I even accept the the general sentiment here that TATA customers are ignorant about quality levels and are cheap enough to only consider low upfront cost and mileage as main factors in their car-purchase.

So, proceeding on the premise that the above statement is true, and extending the above statement further, can we not also say that,

Dissatisfied TATA customers are those who thought they could get away with buying a product that cost less and one which offered much more attractive value proposition, but were dissatisfied because they expected the same levels of quality and refinement, available in a higher priced car, which they were not willing to pay in the first place ?

If all of the above hold true, who is more ignorant about quality levels and who is cheaper? The manufacturer or the customer who complains ?

It is useless to consider quality levels in isolation, without it being viewed along with the price levels at which that quality is offered.

OK..let me as a loaded question here ???? Especially considering the fact that people are so free with their criticisms. lets see how people are good at answering some valid points.

At least for the customers who invested in TATA diesel Indicas and Indigos have the argument, that there was no other similar product on offer from any other manufacturer at those price points.

I am just very unclear on the buying criteria and decision making rationale of the dissatisfied Indica/Indigo Petrol owners.

Why on earth did you choose the Indica/Indigo petrol ?? Especially since by that time everyone was aware of the initial lot Indica horror stories and having seen so many dissatisfied cases first hand.

And unlike the diesel customers, you had a multitude of options. You had the Ford Ikon 1.3 and the 1.6, the Esteem and the Accent. In hatchbacks, too many options to list here.

So why exactly did you choose the Indica/Indigo petrol ? It can't be patriotic reasons because its already been said that patriotic considerations for choosing a car are misplaced, and which has been made abundantly clear.

Surely not because of the Indica / Indigo petrol's astounding mileage, I would say.

So why exactly ?
Was it because the Indica / Indigo petrol offered the cheapest way into a reasonably large petrol car ?

And the discounts !!! The juicy discounts on TATA petrols was just too good to resist, I would say.

So basically, in spite of better options available in the market, in the exact class and category of automobiles you were looking for, there were plenty of other options, still the Indica / Indigo petrol was chosen.

And when it did not match the refinement of the slightly higher priced options, you complain and pass derogatory comments on the manufacturer, conveniently forgetting how little you paid in the first place.

Is it because the free lunch you were looking for did not materialise ?

Something to think about, Hell, I may be wrong. But I also raised some possibilities that can be discussed, as opposed to some who are just drawing conclusions expecting it to be accepted.
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Old 24th November 2006, 18:35   #132
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Phew... Hey hell do you think this is even worth replying to?
The post ended with a desire to meet such satisfied owners. Just ask any of those people who are using Indicas and Indigos for their travel / taxi business.

And this Work-In-Progress as opposed to a finished product is a bit sad. People who understand engineering will know it is almost the norm. Building a car is not like building a spoon.

This happens even in aircrafts where safety and quality are not just catch-phrases. They are real things and are the difference between life and death to the passengers flying in them.

Both Boeing and Airbus constantly keep releasing modifications that operators need to integrate, incorporate and comply with.

Airbus is much cheaper. But when we have taken delivery of the aircraft, it has sometimes come with a list of mods to be incorporated, before it goes into revenue service. And maintenance requirements for Airbus are almost always more complicated as compared to Boeing, which almost every aviation maintenance engineer will tell you is easier to maintain.

But look at the Airbus A318/319/320/321 series and how well its sold in the last decade.

Even in India, Indigo Airlines has booked 100 of them outright. Because, at the time an airline is starting up, often you do not have the luxury of going for the more complete finished and relatively superior quality product. So, when you have another option that offers a fantastic value proposition, you choose it.

Even SQ, one of the most cash-rich airlines in the world, which has the youngest and best maintained fleet in the world and which operates large number B747-400s and 777 Jubilees, also operate their Airbus A340 Celstars on their long haul routes and the A310-300 on their shuttle routes. You know why ??? operational costs. more bang for the buck.

Its the exact same logic, but one people refuse to see.

And while you are on the topic of releasing unfinished products, I would like to see people choosing something other than Windows. How many of these people run MAC OS, or Linux or Unix ?
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Old 24th November 2006, 19:08   #133
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
And while you are on the topic of releasing unfinished products, I would like to see people choosing something other than Windows. How many of these people run MAC OS, or Linux or Unix ?
Heck, Ballkey's Law states that any discussion on computer operating systems will atleast include one single car analogy - the corollary also seems to be true
And Windows has come a long way - when's Tata's equivalent of Windows NT going to come? Would that be the Dicor series or with the Multi-jet engines?
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Old 24th November 2006, 19:16   #134
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Heck, Ballkey's Law states that any discussion on computer operating systems will atleast include one single car analogy - the corollary also seems to be true
And Windows has come a long way - when's Tata's equivalent of Windows NT going to come? Would that be the Dicor series or with the Multi-jet engines?
I was under the impression that TATAs is skipping on the whole NT thing and moving on straight to Vista / Data Center.

While there have been oodles and oodles of discussions here on the Baleno engine in the Swift or the "imminent" JTD in the Swift, and while Ford has launched their 1.4 TDCI, which has received miced responses on account of its power characteristics (I personally like it though) and so forth, TATA has gone ahead, with turboing its diesels, then intercooling them, dicorising the safari, and with very strong vibes about the dicorising of the Indigo as well, and already we are talking about the next generation of their DICOR. Not to mention the improvements they are making with their petrols as well.

I did a one-year "auditioning" of cars before I picked up mine. And in between every three months, when I would visit a TATA dealer, the interiors would look different. So that is a good thing for me. When the manufacturer actively deploys "patches" across the range.

Last edited by hell_rider : 24th November 2006 at 19:17.
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Old 24th November 2006, 19:52   #135
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Hi
I have an Indica thats 5 yrs old and a Safari thats one year old. I love both of them. Crib about the interiors , the plastics , everything but TATA still gives you features comparable with most foreign cars at an Indian price and the vehicles are not gas guzzlers atleast. They give OK mileage for the fuel they run on. I am proud too. Of course, we are guinea pigs for all companies being a country which has a great demand for everything"Phoren"!
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