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Old 11th November 2006, 17:27   #1
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Angry Are we too harsh on Tata?

I am saying this because i am a patriotic Indian and maybe because i have a soft corner for tata in my heart. We all know the story of Tata Motors from A to Z. Shouldn't we respect Tata for making bold decisions taking the context into consideration. I know that Tata doesn't make the best cars in India but isn't it one of the only manufacturers who understands the pulse of the nation. Aren't Indian car makers like Tata far better than Chinese manufacturers who do not know anything except making cheap copies of successsful automobiles? Or Indian manufacturers like Hero Honda who forever rely on foreign technology instead of using their own brains. This is the same case with Maruti, i always felt that Maruti should have become an independent company sometime later. Why is that most of us are always cynical whenever Tata makes a new venture plan, concept etc. OK the indica is not the ideal car for petrol heads and performance freaks but isn't it ideal for other millions of other people. To be frank does a typical car buyer really care if his car accelerates in 6.01 or 6.02 secs. No sir, all he wants his decent performance and decent efficency which most Tata cars readily deliver. It is easier said than done. It was Tata who dared to do different before all Mahindras, Bajaj's and so on. Yes, criticism is welcome but shouldn't it be more constructive.
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Old 11th November 2006, 17:52   #2
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"Patriotism is the last refuge of a fool" - Samuel Johnson

There are two sides of the coin on this

On one hand - you find people like Steeroid and others who have had excellent service and upgrades on their vehicles. On the other side, you have folks like Varun Roy who are having a miserable time.

From a business point of view - Tata are doing us proud in terms of the Ace which is a simple vehicle which serves undemanding people who have demanding applications (overloading)

The Indica served the passenger car segment which was new and very demanding. Over here Tata bit off more than it could chew due to oversight of design details leading to a rough although competent product. Supporting Tata because it is indian is not the best thing - look at Proton in Malaysia, it is lagging badly. Encouraging Tata to be competitive is the key thing to do.

Tata realise this hence the collabaration with Fiat. Fiat have the flair and Tata have the muscle so there is a synergy which could be effective
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Old 11th November 2006, 18:02   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
I am saying this because i am a patriotic Indian and maybe because i have a soft corner for tata in my heart.

Patriotism has nothing to do with it. They're not giving you the car for free because you're Indian, you have to shell out your hard earned money. In fact, as Indians, they should feel patriotic and deliver a superior product/a.s.s. experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
I know that Tata doesn't make the best cars in India but isn't it one of the only manufacturers who understands the pulse of the nation.
Not really. Maruti and Honda seem to have a good understanding of their markets as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
Aren't Indian car makers like Tata far better than Chinese manufacturers who do not know anything except making cheap copies of successsful automobiles?
That's a pretty low standard, don't you think?


Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
Or Indian manufacturers like Hero Honda who forever rely on foreign technology instead of using their own brains.
Yes, but HH bikes are bulletproof reliable and don't use you as an involuntary guinea pig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
Why is that most of us are always cynical whenever Tata makes a new venture plan, concept etc.
Because we've had bad experiences or know people who have had bad experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
OK the indica is not the ideal car for petrol heads and performance freaks but isn't it ideal for other millions of other people. To be frank does a typical car buyer really care if his car accelerates in 6.01 or 6.02 secs. No sir, all he wants his decent performance and decent efficency which most Tata cars readily deliver.
We had a petrol Indigo. It's an ideal car if you like your parts breaking down every month or two, going 2-3 times a month to the service station, and then waiting 1-2 months for spare parts. In fact, our Indigo had higher maintenance costs and lower FE than any of our other cars, including Lancer and Optra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salilpawar1
It is easier said than done. It was Tata who dared to do different before all Mahindras, Bajaj's and so on. Yes, criticism is welcome but shouldn't it be more constructive.

Agreed. But is Tata listening?
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Old 11th November 2006, 18:24   #4
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The tatas[along with ashok leylands] are the lifeline[trucks] of our country.Whatever they have done/are doing is commendable.

However the others[foreign manufacturers] too require credit for giving us some good products and changed our perception of automobiles altogether.Tata too has taken foreign help for a majority of its projects.In this era of globilization it would be wrong to have a Indian Vs Foreign mindset.

The initial indicas had lots of problems and the safari was sluggish but look how the Tata's have responded to criticism [and competition].
Tata indica bought diesel to the masses.With the safari an indian could experience a SUV.Sumo, the taxi crowd favourite. The one lakh car concept will create a revolution in the Indian automobile arena.Tata is proving to be the lifeline for Fiat.Tata Ace another gem.

Tatas will always be respected for their products but it would be wrong to be biased towards them just because they are Indian.
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Old 11th November 2006, 18:27   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat
Tata realise this hence the collabaration with Fiat. Fiat have the flair and Tata have the muscle so there is a synergy which could be effective
If it clicks then we've great thing coming up..Tata's learning curve will change rapidly..
Remember the launch of Indica with real sad product offer? And how long did they take to give you current V2?
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Old 11th November 2006, 18:43   #6
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Have you ever thought of a situation when you are getting late for your office. You have more faith in your car than in yourself. Drive your car down to your office which is not far, maybe 10 kms and in just midway your car ceases to move, there is no workshop at least till 5 kms in either way. Now you curse yourself for buying this car. Would you think patriotism at this moment?

When it comes to talk aloud about what Tata's are doing, they will always be praised but when it comes to talk about their cars/UVs, sorry I won't be able to praise them, let alone buy a Tata. Car is bought for convenience, not for pain!
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Old 11th November 2006, 18:55   #7
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Hmmm... Tata Indica has been in top 3, as far as sales numbers are concerned, for quite some time now and if the products are so bad, why would people buy them in hordes ?

Interesting part is that most of the Tata bashers don't have a first hand experience of owning an Indica or Indigo.
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Old 11th November 2006, 19:45   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude
Hmmm... Tata Indica has been in top 3, as far as sales numbers are concerned, for quite some time now and if the products are so bad, why would people buy them in hordes ?
Do you really think that sales numbers tell anything about the quality of a product?

Quote:
Interesting part is that most of the Tata bashers don't have a first hand experience of owning an Indica or Indigo.
Wrong again. Read the post by Boom Shiva. He is an ex owner of Indigo.
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:00   #9
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We are harsh on Tata right, but thats for its own good and patriotism is one of the very reasons for us being harsh. We indians are proud of Tata and hence want its products to be as good as or better than products from countries such as Korea. Tata should take this criticism positively on its way up the automotive learning curve. Every automaker has faced harsh words on its maturing years. However some get complacent on getting there.
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:03   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dceite
Do you really think that sales numbers tell anything about the quality of a product?
Sure. Nobody would spend 4 lakhs or so on somthing that is of very bad quality. Would you ?

Quote:
Wrong again. Read the post by Boom Shiva. He is an ex owner of Indigo.
That is the reason I said most of Tata bashers (as opposed to
all of Tata bashers). The word most was highlighted as well. Anyway ...
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:08   #11
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I think most of Indian auto manufacturers try to use buyers as guinea pigs.... I mean, scorpio was one, Indica another, so the problem with India is its always been a sellers market so companies can afford to do such things and get away with it...
Having said that, I think they have done a wonderful job compared to other countries... take an eg of South American countries, Australia etc...so many of countries much more developed than ours, dont have car companies of their own (I am not 100% sure of Australian cars, but I dont think Aussies can do anything other than winning cricket matches!!).. I am happy whenever I see some representation by Indian companies for all these huge auto shows ...

BUT: It all ends there... I'll probably buy shares of that company , but I will never take their origin into consideration when buying a car... (Indian car manufacturers are most profitable!!! I will probably turn this discussion into a stock market chat!!)...

I think aggressive approach has never been TATA's strength, they are always happy as second...but a solid second... not just automobiles all other sectors too...
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:12   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvish
but I dont think Aussies can do anything other than winning cricket matches!!).. ...
Pardon me for going OT...But have u heard of Fosters!!
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:13   #13
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Its really ridiculous that whenever Tata comes with a product or maybe a revision of existing one, problems seem to be increasing rather than decreasing. Maruti launched Swift which had some small issues initially, they figured them out and corrected in no time. Its acceptable that first launch of your product might not be great but it should evolve over time and at the end of the day it should stand with respect. Why doesn't Tata learn anything from Toyota, there first launches too are first-class products while Tata launched Safari in 1998 first and its still struggling with the very same problems. Don't they know, how good or bad their products are? Why are they taking Indian janta for granted then?
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:13   #14
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I am extremely proud of TATA and Mahindra. Among others, so also are Stratos and Steeroid.

In fact, very soon I will have one product from each in my garage. What they have achieved in terms of self-learning and development was a distant dream in the early 90's for any Indian company.

I gotta admit...I will always have a soft spot for this duo. Yup, Patriotism has a lot to do with it.
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Old 11th November 2006, 20:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
I am extremely proud of TATA and Mahindra. Among others, so also are Stratos and Steeroid.

.
I am with you there GTO. I would like to add Bajaj to that list.

Following was my introductory post.

Quote:
I love cars and am not really attracted to the fast breeds, but more attracted towards cars made for the masses (value for money) cars.... I like cars made by India i.e INDIAN cars. My first car was a Indica and I really loved it. I am very proud of the fact that indian manufacturers are keeping up and ahead of the foreign competition.

Last edited by tifosikrishna : 11th November 2006 at 20:38.
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