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Old 9th August 2017, 09:46   #1
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Default Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power-aph_5216.jpg

Received a press release. Among other things, the Minister of State for Power, Coal, New and Renewable Energy & Mines had this to say

Quote:
Government is not much interested in promoting Hybrid cars as they save only a small part of fuel so the cess has been increased on these cars also. Government is more interested in promoting electric cars as future is of Electric cars.
Hybrid can be done today, and go mass market in 2 - 3 years. Electric cars are *at least* 10 years away from going mainstream. Not to forget, there's going to be a need for charging infrastructure. 90% of India parks on the street - where are they going to charge their EVs, if EV charging stations aren't as common place as petrol pumps? The government is putting the cart ahead of the horse!

Hybrid cars perform their BEST in exactly our bumper-to-bumper city driving conditions where they can do the low speed commute majorly in EV mode (hybrid gains aren't as much on the highway). A car that delivers 15 kmpl could easily become a 25 kmpl car with a good hybrid system. Owners of the latest Prius report 50 - 55 mpg in the city (21 - 23 kmpl). Imagine the FE of a small hatchback! A 30 kmpl Alto? It's a possibility.

Yes, electric / hydrogen fuel cell / other cars are the future. But until we get there, hybrids are the best interim solution available.

Related Thread : Link.

Last edited by GTO : 9th August 2017 at 10:00.
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Old 9th August 2017, 10:10   #2
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

The point Hon. Minister Mr. Piyush Goyal is missing is that battery manufacturing capacity can only be kickstarted if there is enough demand for hybrids.

Pure electrics have no feasibility as yet without changing infrastructure, hybrids definitely do.
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Old 9th August 2017, 10:21   #3
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

When we "get there", that is, pure electric cars with wireless charging that can recharge from a nation-wide power network grid just like the mobile phone communicate with it's service provider's network, what would the government's reaction be?

It's a no-brainer actually. The government will increase the cess and GST of such cars to 50% and additionally slap a Grid tax, power surcharge and who knows, an additional cess for the battery pack.

Please note that I am not joking on a thread started by GTO. Consider this:
- the original proposal in GST was to tax solar panels @ 18%
- a community of rural electrification experts, greens and the industry pleaded with the GoI and the GST was reduced to 5%

Before you start this big-hearted decision read this: the VAT on coal was 11.69%. It was changed to 5% GST and the solar panels were clubbed to the same slab. And what was the VAT for solar before GST, may I ask?
Zero percent.
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Old 9th August 2017, 10:25   #4
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Does this guy know what he is talking? It's a miracle that India is moving forward with these kind of people at the helm. Future is electric cars, but what have these guys done to promote that? Have they made electric cars tax free? No. Have they planned for some infrastructure for electric cars? No. Utterly disappointed with things that are happening in our country. Just yesterday read about the flip flop on tax on SUV and Luxury cars.
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Old 9th August 2017, 10:34   #5
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Disappointing to hear this from a minister who is considered a bit more enlightened than a typical mantriji. You know everything that is happening around these days is "great on paper" but terrible in practice. I mean, yes we all would like to move to 100% digital economy, one nation one tax, fully EVs, etc. by tomorrow but the reality is we need a multi-stage plan to get there. Even if they don't support hybrid tech, let them show their commitment to EVs by bringing in the necessary policy to grow the EV adoption.

Last edited by androdev : 9th August 2017 at 10:36.
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:04   #6
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

This is very disappointing, especially coming from Piyush Goyal, who otherwise seems to have been doing a good job in his Ministry.

A significant part of our country is still not part of the grid, the part that is, still faces tremendous shortage routinely. And yet, despite doing everything we can to harness alternate sources of energy and reduce the dependency on traditional sources: coal, fossil fuels, we are making the adoption of these alternate sources difficult!

I'd imagine this isn't the Govt's thinking, but something driven by lobbying efforts.

I'm surprised the Govt. doesn't want to at least put some effort in curbing the nation's huge fuel bill.

When another well-performing minister says that they wouldn't encourage driverless cars as they'd put drivers out of jobs, you should realize that the dog's tail is going to take quite of bit of evolution to straighten up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas View Post
Before you start this big-hearted decision read this: the VAT on coal was 11.69%. It was changed to 5% GST and the solar panels were clubbed to the same slab. And what was the VAT for solar before GST, may I ask?
Zero percent.
Very sad. I know so many people who stay in bungalows, who are willing to install solar panels to harness the energy, regardless of break-even; very disheartening that the policies make it harder for people to do their bit for the environment.
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:06   #7
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Guys, before this thread moves off in another direction, just a polite reminder of forum rule #13. Please discuss only the policy, but not politics or politicians.

Thanks for the support & understanding
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:12   #8
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

In the previous tax regime there was a concessional tax on hybrids, but manufacturers like Maruti and Mahindra made fraudulent products like the Ciaz SHVS to unduely claim tax advantage.
The government should have specified proper classification like plug in series hybrid with lowest tax, parallel hybrid with moderate tax, and kept the automatic start stop, and alternator isolation etc out of hybrid cassification.

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Old 9th August 2017, 11:14   #9
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

These guys are trying to outpace the west in terms of technology. Proposing a plan is one thing and implementing it with a solid infrastructure is another. Recent rules and proposals by the government clearly indicate the lack of understanding between reality which we people want and dream which they want us to believe in.
As GTO correctly pointed out we should first accept the Hybrid version and then move on to EVs.
Just my two cents.
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Old 9th August 2017, 14:10   #10
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

So, the future is electric car and hence they must put a lot of tax on the present technology (i.e. hybrid)? Strange logic. Why not put higher tax still on internal combustion, then? Why lower tax on internal combustion and higher tax on hybrid? If they felt that current hybrid offerings are just too luxurious to be taxed low, they can specify a upper limit for price to be taxed low. E.g., they can say if priced more than 10 lakh a hybrid car will be taxed at 400% so on and so forth.

I really marvel at how the politicians can blow hot air and pretend like it is the coolest breeze straight from south pole. If future is electric cars, are they gearing up for it? Are they generating enough electricity to support all electrical vehicles? A large portion of India still experiences load shedding every day, because there isn't enough electricity!
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Old 9th August 2017, 14:30   #11
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Default Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

It was not too difficult for Government to make a policy a little more nuanced than this blanket attack on hybrids. One simple solution was giving benefits to vehicles with electric motors capable of moving vehicle independently along with conventional IC engine.

With Maruti and Mahindra gunning for tax benefits with mild hybrids, think there is currently no one strong enough to lobby this matter with right intentions. Maybe Team BHPians can take a lead in spreading awareness.
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Old 9th August 2017, 14:36   #12
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

I hope Mr.Minister's (or the ministry's) knowledge of hybrids is not limited to "SHVS" and "Micro Hybrid" (which are a sham anyway). EVs are a utopian dream whereas Hybrids are a reality. Making Hybrids tax free or having a concessional tax would be the first logical step towards going green.

For me, it feels more of buzzwords and less of understanding. Where is the roadmap to make India EV only nation by 2030? Without one, it's just wishful thinking.

Last edited by GTO : 10th August 2017 at 10:49. Reason: small typo
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Old 9th August 2017, 14:54   #13
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

There are few aspects here.
1. The fact that Hybrids do not save much fuel, is not entirely false, especially in context of 'Mild Hybrid' systems.
2. It is not straight forward from a regulatory point of view to draw a line between a 'Mild Hybrid' and a 'Proper/Full Hybrid'.
3. However, in spite of the above two points, the Govt should have at least kept the Tax on hybrids at the same rate as it's non-hybrid variants, instead of keeping it higher. Charging more tax for Hybrid Variants is downright stupidity, foolishness and nonsense combined together.
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Old 9th August 2017, 15:09   #14
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Roland Folger - MD & CEO-Mercedes Benz India, puts his point mildly.

1. In India electric vehicle can be more polluting than diesel cars.(65% of your electrical energy is still produced by fossil fuels.)

2.These are produced in factories that don’t have any cleansing mechanisms.

3. Compare it to a BS-IV diesel engine, at the moment, would have to say BS-IV diesel is less polluting than an electric vehicle … It gets even worse because by 2020 we are going to be at BS-VI, and the (vehicle) pollution will further come down.

4. Can the electricity producing industry keep up with the improvements in the automotive business?

5 Mercedes Benz will be ready with EV BY 2020 - will await Government's direction on this - CBU EV'S? CKD Policy , local supply of batteries - policy on what will happen to the old batteries??.



Last edited by volkman10 : 9th August 2017 at 15:12.
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Old 9th August 2017, 15:54   #15
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Default Re: Government not interested in promoting hybrid cars, says Minister for Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
1. In India electric vehicle can be more polluting than diesel cars.(65% of your electrical energy is still produced by fossil fuels.)
What Mr Roland is missing is that India will not continue to sit on this 65% fossil fuel generated energy for ever.
Govt has targeted 60% electricity from non fossil fuels by 2027.
Quote:
India plans nearly 60% of electricity capacity from non-fossil fuels by 2027.
Quote:
The Indian government has forecast that it will exceed the renewable energy targets set in Paris last year by nearly half and three years ahead of schedule.
Govt is certainly not looking at all EVs by 2030 in isolation. No wonder these announcements are coming from the Power ministry and not from Heavy Industries ministry or Transport ministry.

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