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Old 17th August 2017, 10:57   #16
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

Don't know how they are going to fulfill this tender as no one other than Mahindra has an electric sedan in India. The Verito is so old & outdated that government officers may not want to travel in it. Not to forget, it's grossly overpriced as well. The order size isn't big enough for any manufacturer to invest in assembly facilities here.

The only way this tender will see bids (other than the e-Verito) will be if some manufacturer imports EVs for the government, and writes the losses off as a marketing / PR expense. But that sets a bad precedent - the government using imported cars at the same time it is pushing the 'Make in India' movement?

Oh well, the entire exercise should give the government a reality check on the state of EVs in India.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:00   #17
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Originally Posted by NiXTriX2004 View Post
It seems that they have justification for that and I tend to agree with that
I did read the article and his points are indeed valid. However; don't rule out hybrids in the interim.

Even a developed country like the USA has taken almost a decade to make it easy for the electric car owner to find a charging station. It will take us several decades to catch up and provide the same level of convenience.

We must start somewhere. Hybrids are definitely more economical and cleaner than a 100% IC engine. It is not for nothing that a Prius is popular in the cab segment. Toyota sell a hybrid version of almost every model (Hatch/Sedan) in their lineup.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:12   #18
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Originally Posted by sri_tesla View Post
Seriously, there are people that enjoy smoking barrels?
I understand about engine sound to some extent but enjoying smoke?
To be honest, I enjoy a bit of smoke coming from my two-stroke Yezdi and the sound of it's engine. Maybe everyone won't enjoy the same. Some people like engines as silent as a clock, however this is purely my personal opinion.
Maybe my taste will change once I drive an actual EV, Let's wait and see.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:15   #19
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
The IC engines are simply no match to the incredible power and torque that an electric motor can generate right from 0 rpm silently with no drama. So silent that new regulations in the US and EU require EVs to add artificial sounds at lower speeds for pedestrian safety.

The EVs will be definitely more fun to drive once we have Tesla cars like quality at afforable prices.

The IC engines do exactly what you mentioned, roaring and smoking, lots of moving parts and wasting 85% of the energy from the burnt fuel.
Its just that battery charge holding capacity per unit volume is in its nascent stage seriously limiting the range, cost and potential of the EV as it stands now. This is bound to change with economies of scale and intensive R&D advanvements in battery technology.
Totally agree with you. I saw this video in Youtube of a custom built BMW E36 Electric drive. It is quite fast and the acceleration is unbelievable. I heard the pollution caused by lithium battery is quite high. What is your opinion on that ?
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:24   #20
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Don't know how they are going to fulfill this tender as no one other than Mahindra has an electric sedan in India. The Verito is so old & outdated that government officers may not want to travel in it. Not to forget, it's grossly overpriced as well. The order size isn't big enough for any manufacturer to invest in assembly facilities here.

The only way this tender will see bids (other than the e-Verito) will be if some manufacturer imports EVs for the government, and writes the losses off as a marketing / PR expense. But that sets a bad precedent - the government using imported cars at the same time it is pushing the 'Make in India' movement?

Oh well, the entire exercise should give the government a reality check on the state of EVs in India.
I agree with all your points, except the order size being small. 10K may be small number when we consider all vehicles, but for electric its still a big number. For example, Hyundai current all-electric capacity is only at around 20K per year. That 20K is for entire world. Combined Hyundai and KIA all-electric capacity is expected to reach 50K by next year. Its similar for Chevrolet and their bolt electric car at less than 20K.

Having said that, govt will definitely gets a reality check with this tender. I believe they also want to just test the willingness of manufacturers with this tender.

In my opinion, govt should rather waive off the import duties (currently 125% for CBU?) for all electric vehicles with 150 to 200+ KM range initially for the next 1-2 years and provide more incentives who start manufacturing here.

Last edited by sri_tesla : 17th August 2017 at 11:25.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:44   #21
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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The order size isn't big enough for any manufacturer to invest in assembly facilities here.
I think the order size is actually pretty good. With 10,000 assured sales with definitely a future option of state governments also opting for same, one can foresee a large demand. And no one's stopping them from retailing the cars in market.

Quote:
The Verito is so old & outdated that government officers may not want to travel in it.
While Verito is indeed way too long in the tooth, it is really spacious. Bureaucrats won't be happy but then I hope they give in if Government is firm with this.

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Not to forget, it's grossly overpriced as well.
Overpriced, yes. But I am sure they would be able to qualify as L1 bidder with that kind of price as well.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:47   #22
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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I agree with all your points, except the order size being small. 10K may be small number when we consider all vehicles, but for electric its still a big number.
The first order phase is only for 1,000 vehicles. That's too small. If & when the rest of the 9,000 orders will come is anyone's guess. A lot of the global MNCs have scaled back on their Indian investments, and no one will invest in facilities for an order that might be completed after 5 years.

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In my opinion, govt should rather waive off the import duties (currently 125% for CBU?) for all electric vehicles with 150 to 200+ KM range initially for the next 1-2 years and provide more incentives who start manufacturing here.
IMHO, they shouldn't waive off import duties on CBUs, whether electric or hydrogen fuel cell. What they could do instead is *temporarily* waive off duties on the import of their parts, thus still making the manufacturer assemble it here.
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Old 17th August 2017, 11:47   #23
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

Get ready for "VIP EV charging stations" at public places
Tesla does not need to go for this as they are just trying to keep up with the demand. Good chance for likes of Hyundai to break in. Government can accelerate this by giving import duty credit to manufacturers if they commit to manufacturing these vehicles in India and help keep the prices down.

Finally what may work for Indian consumer is "kitna deti hai". If the prices can be brought down this could start to take off here.
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Old 17th August 2017, 13:27   #24
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Totally agree with you. I saw this video in Youtube of a custom built BMW E36 Electric drive. It is quite fast and the acceleration is unbelievable. I heard the pollution caused by lithium battery is quite high. What is your opinion on that ?
Not really. More than 90% of the battery can be recycled. Its a proven fact that an electric car is less polluting that the IC engined car even if the electricity comes from coal fired power stations.
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Old 18th August 2017, 12:24   #25
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

This sounds like a good initiative.

I would really like if they add the criterion to the selection process, that the vehicles should be manufactured in India.
This way, at least the common man will be benefited with affordable prices from the scale of production, and secondly it should create new jobs in Battery Research & Manufacturing sector.

Secondly, All existing petrol pumps could be persuaded to install at least one electric charging station each (Some initial incentives could be given).
That will go a long way in created nation wide charging infrastructure.
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Old 18th August 2017, 12:53   #26
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

This is a good move to get EVs into the road and getting the charging infra alongwith and thus benefiting the common man to get into buying EVs.

But I still think govt should have started with the public transport buses to start with. The benefits are many

- Buses move from terminal to terminal, where charging infra can be easily setup in these terminals.

- Buses are the most polluting of all people carriers, so tackling pollution will be on a greater scale.

- As buses takes fixed routes, charging infra can be setup in the bus stops too so that no bus gets stranded.

- From here on, these bus stop chargers can be utilized for personal EVs when they come.
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Old 18th August 2017, 13:31   #27
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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Not really. More than 90% of the battery can be recycled. Its a proven fact that an electric car is less polluting that the IC engined car even if the electricity comes from coal fired power stations.
That is really a very helpful information. So there is a possibility of custom built Electric drive to be available for all the current vehicles just like the LPG modules are available.
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Old 18th August 2017, 14:01   #28
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

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That is really a very helpful information. So there is a possibility of custom built Electric drive to be available for all the current vehicles just like the LPG modules are available.
Can and cannot. Technically possible, but not a financially viable option. Making an existing car electric means removing the engine and making room for the battery, which will be difficult. No matter how well you streamline this process, it will never be cheap.

Lets say that you have a 5 year old Honda City, will you consider spending another few lakhs just to make it electric (which can be unreliable as well), or will you just consider buying a new electric car and upgrade. (Assume they are cheaper)

Just like the mobile phone was a luxury 20 years ago, and a necessity today. Electric cars will be cheaper some day and at that time, upgrading to a electric car will be more sensible than a IC engine car.

The point of all this exercise by the government, is to get electric cars rolling. Yes there is evidence of lack of infrastructure and all. But lets be honest that the cost of 10000 cars is a pittance of an amount for all the good that is to be achieved and the money that can be saved in the future.
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Old 18th August 2017, 21:21   #29
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

I am huge petrol head and still love the sight, smell and feel of an internal combustion engine, but I also have a huge love for EV cars, particularly vintage electric cars. I also like the idea that a company called Zelectric has done were old VW Beetle is converted to electric. I want to try this on our own ambassador considering that the Amby enine was never its strong point, we could have all the charm and comfort of the old Amby with the sophistication and reliability of a modern electric car. Anyone interested in collaborating on such a project?
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Old 18th August 2017, 22:40   #30
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Default Re: Government to add 10,000 electric cars to its fleet

Tata might join the race too.

Their Tiago EV is almost ready. To bag an order of 10,000 cars, I am sure they will make a Tigor EV ready pronto.

The Tigor does fulfill the tender requirement, of a four door sedan with a 120-150 km range, too. Their Bolt EV, in Eco mode, claimed a range of 120 kms.

They, along with, Mahindra, will have the first mover 'Make in India' advantage. Let's see which other international manufacturer applies.

On a side note, if the EESL chooses a car which is unavailable to the common man, it might become the 'VIP' car on the streets of Delhi. No beacon required. If you see a Tesla in your rear view mirror, you better move out of its way

Sources: Tiago EV, Bolt EV
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