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Old 11th September 2017, 10:42   #31
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Default re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

While I definitely agree that 80KMPH may be a bit low for highways, but the silver lining is that, accidents can reduce.

Airport Taxi folks in Bangalore frequently do 100+ Speeds on the toll road, that too while speaking on the phone. Capping their speed to 80KMPH is good move, in my opinion.
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Old 11th September 2017, 10:47   #32
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Default re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
apparently most of those that come in seem to think that their fuel efficiency is impacted by the AOH feature
If you are pedantic about it, yes, it does reduce fuel efficiency.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:15   #33
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Default re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Not really that excited about it. Maybe after awhile when all cars can be tracked through GPS and the driver will be fined automatically if the unit (whatever it may be) noticed him doing higher speeds than the speed limit of that specific road. As someone rightfully pointed out, they will try to make up for lost time on the highways by speeding in cities which scares me a lot more personally.

Moreover, what's the point of building high speed highways then for people trying to earn some bread from driving? It'll surely hurt them financially as well given people would rather take their own car when travelling via an expressway. I know I would.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:15   #34
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Default re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

While a speed limiter makes sense, setting the speed limit below what is permissible on any road across the country for that particular vehicle class is illogical. Now, 100 kmph is the limit on most 4 laned national highways. The limits is even higher at 120 kmph for some expressways. So the limiter should be set at 120 kmph.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:04   #35
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

I whole heartedly welcome this move for following reasons:

1. Although most of the cars and highways are designed to perform above 80kmph, road discipline of cab drivers is definitely questionable ( along with many of the private car owners too)

2. Most of the cabs are bought in their basic trims of the cars which are not known to be sturdy in the first place, which lack any kind of active and passive safety features like ABS, airbags, traction control, ESP, etc. So, while traveling in such a car i will always prefer to ride at lower speeds compared to vehicles which are sturdier and full of safety features.

3. Cabs are typically maintained with cost cutting philosophy like long lasting tyres instead of high grip ones, juggad works at roadside workshops instead of a proper foolproof solution, etc. And to add to this, they are driven in such speeds and manners that they will cover maximum trips or distance so as to maximize profits.

4. The exceptional cases like carrying patients urgently to hospitals are extremely rare by probability, normally i have seen people using ambulances in such cases. The acts of terrorism are even extremely rare posibilities and speeding away is not a solution all the time.

So, definitely more good is going to be achieved by these restrictions than the bad i think, at least by a ratio of 100:1. Personally i dont mind reaching to my destination in 10-15% more travel time (this is the only drawback with such restrictions) if it significantly increases my safety, mental peace and comfort at least till the time more comprehensive measures are in place to take care of the same.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:20   #36
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
  • What if it's required for a patient that needs to be rushed to a nearby hospital? We all know how our Ambulances are logged amidst urban traffic a lot of time.
  • What if the car passes a site of accident? There may be patients required to be ferried.
  • How about an unfortunate terrorism activity? The driver is not permitted to drive away as fast as he can?
  • The last time I heard, there are a couple of well laid highways up North where the speed limit is in 3 digits.
  • The driver may be called in for an emergency at home. What should stop him from reaching there as fast as he can.

I guess the point I am trying to make is, as humans we can't preempt all situations, there's a reason why the concept of stress testing is there. This kind of curb will definitely fail on one side of the spectrum.
I can understand your concern, but it is not right.
Having a patient onboard does NOT mean the driver has a free ticket to overspeed. Officially India has a speed limit of 80kmph almost everywhere. The safety this limit offers overcomes the concerns you mentioned by quite a bit of a margin statistically. The risk these overspeeding cabbies pose is much higher than the chance of one of the points you mentioned coming true.

What if the driver wants to rush home for his emergency & kills someone enroute at 120kmph? Another emergency created yeah?

If there is such a need to desperately drive someone to the hospital - taking that person in a cab is many times equally dangerous.
1. That cab driver is not qualified for such emergency driving.
2. Rash driving at high speed in a car like the taxis - puts the patient's life at danger further since there is no proper equipment to ensure the person is secured properly & stabilized.
3. Other road users have no idea that the car is carrying a patient & will not expect it to drive like an emergency services vehicle.

What one needs to do in a scenario like you mentioned is dial the emergency services number & take the person to the hospital in an ambulance that has the necessary right of way.

If not available & the cab is to be taken - drive it at the limit. 80 kmph is more than sufficient for this purpose. Driving at over that speed is hardly possible on non-NH roads & doesn't have so much of a time gain. On national highways there are good emergency services available generally.

Last edited by Reinhard : 11th September 2017 at 12:21.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:28   #37
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

It is unfair to target only the cabbies, I see similar morons driving self registered cars on a daily basis!
Instead of limiting the car's speed and that too just one brand and model, there needs to be a better way to make our roads safer.

I really liked the idea which Jeroen had mentioned on another thread, wherein Insurance companies in EU install a device on your car and monitor your driving performance. Since this will directly impact your premiums, this has the potential to drastically cut down erratic driving.

Few other suggestions:
1. Link the driving license to Aadhar #, strictly controlling 1 DL only and enable easy verification.
2. Make it mandatory to declare all drivers who will be driving a particular car, make it clear that insurance payout will happen only if a declared driver is driving the car.
3. Link all challans to the Aadhar#, through DL. This will be used to calculate insurance premiums. Different type of challans to have varied impact.
4. Do not renew insurance, till all challans pending for the driver and car are cleared. Currently lot of challans are just left hanging.

Unless we take a wholesome approach, all small/minor steps will go in vain.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:38   #38
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
Now, 100 kmph is the limit on most 4 laned national highways. The limits is even higher at 120 kmph for some expressways. So the limiter should be set at 120 kmph.
Is there any new notification mentioning these changes? I am not able to find any info on internet on the above mentioned speeds. Even 100 seems to be exclusively available only in Yamuna Express highway and all other national highways are still at 80. The present government is mulling to raise it to 120 which is contradicting if they are mulling restricting the Taxi/Lorry/Big Vehicles to 80 Kmph which is already underway since we have this thread.

Restricting Taxi to 80 is an excellent idea. 80 is not slow. Wish they first put these restrictions strictly on
1) All Kind of Trucks, be it mini/semi/normal/big.
2) Private buses (Supposedly you can build a bridge to heaven and hell but cannot put restrictions on the supposedly on of the most powerful lobby )
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:44   #39
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
All new Dzire Tour from factory are limited to 80 kmph. I had seen a circular few weeks back at dealership which mentioned to replace the ECU in all Dzire tour's to meet the new government rule of 80 kmph speed limit for taxi & other commercial vehicles. The circular had step by step instructions on how to remove the ECU, install new ECU and also how to pack the old ECU and send it back to factory. I wonder why Maruti was changing ECU instead of software flash with speed limiter.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...le18441665.ece
I think they have asked for a ECU replacement simply to avoid the case of removing the limiter from outside. If the ECU hardware is designed with limitations towards memory capacity / processing ability / access restrictions (like a ROM & not a EPROM), then this whole after-market jugaad thing stands cancelled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
While a speed limiter makes sense, setting the speed limit below what is permissible on any road across the country for that particular vehicle class is illogical. Now, 100 kmph is the limit on most 4 laned national highways. The limits is even higher at 120 kmph for some expressways. So the limiter should be set at 120 kmph.
I for one will not suggest such a thing for the following reasons:

1. Cabbies are over-worked and have a lot of fatigue - You definitely don't want them doing north of a 100kmph in the same road as you & your friends and family.
2. The tire spec of most cabs are pathetic (Dzire Tour / Xcent runs on 155 section for such a torquey diesel) - without ABS - This is a recipe for disaster
3. The mechanical upkeep of most taxis are questionable - especially what with most running with scarily negligible tread depth as well as cheap retreads and chinese unbranded tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuHasstMich View Post
It is unfair to target only the cabbies, I see similar morons driving self registered cars on a daily basis!
Instead of limiting the car's speed and that too just one brand and model, there needs to be a better way to make our roads safer.

I really liked the idea which Jeroen had mentioned on another thread, wherein Insurance companies in EU install a device on your car and monitor your driving performance. Since this will directly impact your premiums, this has the potential to drastically cut down erratic driving.

Few other suggestions:
1. Link the driving license to Aadhar #, strictly controlling 1 DL only and enable easy verification.
2. Make it mandatory to declare all drivers who will be driving a particular car, make it clear that insurance payout will happen only if a declared driver is driving the car.
3. Link all challans to the Aadhar#, through DL. This will be used to calculate insurance premiums. Different type of challans to have varied impact.
4. Do not renew insurance, till all challans pending for the driver and car are cleared. Currently lot of challans are just left hanging.

Unless we take a wholesome approach, all small/minor steps will go in vain.
Few of the main reasons why this won't work in India is that:

1. The insurance for most cabs cover only Third Party and don't have Own Damage cover - this means the insurance company can't earn premiums from these cab operators.
2. A lot of cabbies (especially those with more than 2 year old vehicles) try to run with namesake forged insurance copies (digitally modified dates on an expired policy)
3. The cops aren't bothered as much about rule enforcement as they are about harassing and taking bribes from cabbies


Just my two cents from looking at the various cabs run on the roads and the accident damaged cabs left dilapidated at the police stations.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:55   #40
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
If you are pedantic about it, yes, it does reduce fuel efficiency.
Well, that is debatable.

Alternators in 2 wheelers are generally always 'driven' by the crank at all times (via a chain/gears/pulleys or mount on the crank itself).

I don't think, I have seen/heard of an Alternator which disconnects itself, when battery is full. (Like the AC compressor which disconnects itself from the crank of a Car, when AC is off)
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Old 11th September 2017, 13:05   #41
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surya-TJet View Post
I for one will not suggest such a thing for the following reasons:

1. Cabbies are over-worked and have a lot of fatigue - You definitely don't want them doing north of a 100kmph in the same road as you & your friends and family.
2. The tire spec of most cabs are pathetic (Dzire Tour / Xcent runs on 155 section for such a torquey diesel) - without ABS - This is a recipe for disaster
3. The mechanical upkeep of most taxis are questionable - especially what with most running with scarily negligible tread depth as well as cheap retreads and chinese unbranded tires
This is like finding the wrong solution to the right problem.

- If cabbies are over worked, it needs to be regulated well. Technical solutions around these are available in most western countries - these need to be mandated.

- A regime for certification of fitness already exists. If we are saying that it is not effective, either it has to be altered to make it more effective or it should be scrapped. One cannot have legislative creep to justify poor ability to enforce laws and rules. It only opens up the system for enhanced corruption.

The last thing one wants is that the overall time taken for transportation is reduced due to stupid and illogical speed limits. We need to make efforts to create a world class transportation ecosystem rather than invent more and more regressive restrictions.
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Old 11th September 2017, 13:08   #42
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaghuVis View Post
Is there any new notification mentioning these changes? I am not able to find any info on internet on the above mentioned speeds. Even 100 seems to be exclusively available only in Yamuna Express highway and all other national highways are still at 80. The present government is mulling to raise it to 120 which is contradicting if they are mulling restricting the Taxi/Lorry/Big Vehicles to 80 Kmph which is already underway since we have this thread.

Restricting Taxi to 80 is an excellent idea. 80 is not slow. Wish they first put these restrictions strictly on
1) All Kind of Trucks, be it mini/semi/normal/big.
2) Private buses (Supposedly you can build a bridge to heaven and hell but cannot put restrictions on the supposedly on of the most powerful lobby )
Refer to this http://www.ctp.gov.in/PressNote/2015...%20Gazette.pdf
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Old 11th September 2017, 13:22   #43
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

So now if we hire a private taxi and are traveling on a 2 lane highway we have to hold on to our dear lives during every overtake. Just imagine what a catastrophic situation it might create during overtakes. A large chunk of accidents on highways happen when overtaking and this move will only augment that situation. These cabbies will still try to overtake dangerously even if they have only 80kph to play with. There are so many lower middle class families in India who cannot afford to purchase cars but would like to use hired taxis as a mode of personal transport and imagine them taking forever to reach their destinations at this speed limit. The thought process may be good, the intent may be good but when you look at the fatal scenario this limit may create during overtaking on 2 lane highways i believe this is going to backfire.
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Old 11th September 2017, 15:38   #44
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
This is like finding the wrong solution to the right problem.

- If cabbies are over worked, it needs to be regulated well. Technical solutions around these are available in most western countries - these need to be mandated.

- A regime for certification of fitness already exists. If we are saying that it is not effective, either it has to be altered to make it more effective or it should be scrapped. One cannot have legislative creep to justify poor ability to enforce laws and rules. It only opens up the system for enhanced corruption.

The last thing one wants is that the overall time taken for transportation is reduced due to stupid and illogical speed limits. We need to make efforts to create a world class transportation ecosystem rather than invent more and more regressive restrictions.
While all the points listed above are completely valid; they would be possible / feasible only in a Utopian society, which is definitely not the case here.

Our governments can't even implement something like the GST properly (what with all the back & forth relating to CESS and other indirect taxes). So, I'm pretty confident that they'll make a hash out of such complicated regulations.

Also, with respect to law enforcement on the roads by traffic police - Please remember that unless people come forward honestly, nothing can ever be enforced / curtailed.

A classic case in point towards this example : Tamilnadu has roughly 10,000 traffic policemen deployed in 1 shift (of 8 hours) for a total population of just under 8 crore people (and counting).

So, please tell me on what such systems can actually be implemented such that all the above said rules are in place?

They talked of ITS (the RFID tag found in all cars / trucks / buses) since 2014 is for this - It hasn't been implemented.

They talked of "FasTag" (although not related to this, it is still a government scheme) - See where that is right now.

I'm not saying that these things can't be done - Its just that they are all so unorganized and out of sync that you'd need a huge "RESET" button to correct all of these things in one go.

P.S - As for monitoring duty time limitations for drivers, we used to have something called "Tachograph" back in the 80's for commercial vehicles. This was left out again due to red tape and bureaucracy over the years.

Just my two cents in this topic.

Cheers & Safe Driving..

Last edited by Surya-TJet : 11th September 2017 at 15:40. Reason: Added a Post Script about Tachographs
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Old 11th September 2017, 21:23   #45
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
A. I wonder why Maruti was changing ECU instead of software flash with speed limiter.
]
not sure, but changing an ECU is pretty straight forward and on most cars can be done without the need for special tools. Flashing the software requires dedicated equipment that can overwrite the current software and or settings. Not all workshops might have this sort of equipment, but just about anybody can replace an ECU.

Maybe the original ECU program was just not suitable for a speed limiter?

Jeroen
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