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Old 12th September 2017, 16:05   #76
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
Another solution would be to introduce a point system for commercial license and dire consequences as and when you accumulate points like suspending the license for a few months or having to retake a test for the license.
With 125 crore population of people either not knowing the laws or not bothering about the laws, it is very impractical to implement laws that involve policing for everything. Blanket bans should be able to stop most law violations, and a few who still violate can be caught through policing.

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While going through the post (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review) by BHPian Vulken Auto on the Official Innova Crysta review thread I noticed that Toyota have also started selling the Innova with the Speed limit function. Check out the price list below. Pretty expensive for a 148BHP vehicle that can do only 80km/h!!
It carries 6+ people in comfort and the reliable Toyota runs effortlessly for lakhs of kms! Just because of 80 km/h speed limit, no taxi operator who wanted to buy Innova will settle for an Ertiga or the likes.
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:06   #77
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The point is that 80 is not a magic wand to avoid accidents. 80 is insane if done in a residential area.
That makes a lot of sense. Under some conditions 70 Km/hr might be safe and under some other conditions, 50 Km/hr would be way too much. 100 to 120 Km/hr on a four lane speedway is safe, IMHO. One cannot say any particular speed limit is safe. It is highly relative. It depends on the type of road (NH, SH, city roads, village roads, etc.), the location of the road (residential complex, school zone, hospital zone etc.) condition of the road (smooth, broken-tarmac, potholes, bends, speed breakers etc.), weather condition (sunny, rainy, snowy), the condition of the vehicle (tires, brakes etc.), the condition of the driver (sane, insane, sober, drunk etc.). It would be ideal to restrict the speed if suppose the vehicle is going to be used on a particular locality say inside an education institution, a factory complex, a residential locality or so. But in real world it is better left to the judgement of the driver.

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That said, I must commend Uber. They have introduced a "nudge" system whereby an audible and visible alarm notifies the driver when the car is driven above (I think) 75 kph. This is brilliant. I'm sure this itself checks the driver's tendency to speed a fair bit. Kudos to them on being proactive.
Brilliant it is . The diver is left to decide, but is nudged to maintain a sane limit. An audible alarm, asking to reduce the speed, will surely be annoying and drivers will tend to reduce the speed eventually. I experienced this while travelling in a MERU cab from Hyderabad Airport to Gachibowli almost an year back. Also if it could be programmed to vary the speed limit based on the location on map, traffic conditions etc. it would be great.

Last edited by BLACKBLADE : 12th September 2017 at 16:09. Reason: spelling mistake corrected.
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:17   #78
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by purohitanuj View Post
Think about a 800 watt generator with following conditions:
1. Only 1 fan running consuming say 200 watts
2. Generator running under full load of 800 watts

In both cases, the alternator shaft is anyway getting driven by engine crank at all time.

Will these two condition lead into same fuel consumption? No.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Thus any energy consumption is result of conversion from one form (fuel) of energy into another(electrical) irrespective of its magnitude.
Else we have free energy!
Good description.
But still, there is a difference between a generator and the engine of a scooter/bike.
The generator adjusts itself directly (RPM), when there is a need to produce more or less electricity.

But, How does the Alternator of a bike adjust itself (reduce it's rotational speed) or turn itself off to produce 'less' electrical power?

The speed at which the alternator rotates (which creates the electricity field, whether you use it or not), is governed directly by the engine speed, which is in turn, directly governed by the user's Right Hand and not by the switching on/off of the Headlamp.

Please, correct me if i am mistaken.
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:18   #79
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

My 2 Cents on the reasons for the limits to be implemented on Taxi's only. Pardon my ignorance.
For Private car owners Cars are luxury, the damage done due to mishaps due to over-speeding is their own & them to regret for life.

For Taxis/public transport:
Taxi's mainly survive on the number of trips they make in a day (short/long). Now owning to the fact that car is speed restricted, it is understood that number of trips will be lesser or the distance to be traveled will be less. Resulting in less fatigue. a comparatively relaxed & aware driver on the road.
The person on the driving seat of a taxi is on a job to drive. Under immense pressure to make more trips or cover more distance. He/She is or can be the only bread earner of the family so can be the passengers he is ferrying. So driver's negligence due to any reasons(speeding or fatigue) can be a chain reaction (assume the case of a Shared-cab). Multiple bread earners lost & multiple families suffering at once.

Why cant we take it as a positive move? Higher speeds require higher concentration, higher stress for the driver. Mind it the passengers can rarely sense the speed on which the car is driven. So lesser speed limit will result in lesser fatigue for driver.

On a sarcastic note: If the private car owners keep driving on high speed same applies to them as well & the resultant may be more accidents of private cars, then the sanctions may come to them as well. All cars driving on 80 KMPH.
Or eventually leading to stricter license issuing process.

I may have missed many scenarios above, but just my observation/thoughts. If at all this is strictly implemented. I agree to 80, but can be raised to 100 for all.

Regards,
Saurabh

Last edited by saurabh2711 : 12th September 2017 at 16:29.
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:40   #80
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Several years earlier, a spate of high speed accidents involving Volvo Buses, on a our supposedly safe for 120KMPH highways, indirectly triggered implementation of this 80KMPH rule for Commercial vehicles in Karnataka, TN etc.

If the rules works fine for Volvos which are ferrying passengers, what is the harm in applying the same rule for a Taxi, which is also ferrying passengers.
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:53   #81
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Looks like Hyundai has followed the same approach with Xcent Prime CNG Cab with "factory fitted Speed Limiting Function (SLF)"

http://www.autobics.com/2017/09/hyun...g-price-india/
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Old 12th September 2017, 16:57   #82
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
With 125 crore population of people either not knowing the laws or not bothering about the laws, it is very impractical to implement laws that involve policing for everything. Blanket bans should be able to stop most law violations, and a few who still violate can be caught through policing.
Thank you for highlighting the problem with our country. For any change to come about we do not focus on trying to achieve that but rather worry about the large population. It can definitely be implemented if the government takes it seriously.

Also in this case the blanket ban will be able to stop only one violation i.e. over-speeding on highways. You can still run red lights, drive rashly, drive on the wrong side, hogging the right lane, driving without a license, over-speeding on city roads, etc.,

Last I experienced all the rash driving cabbies in my city were within 80km/h but dangerous at the same time.

just my $0.02.


Quote:
It carries 6+ people in comfort and the reliable Toyota runs effortlessly for lakhs of kms! Just because of 80 km/h speed limit, no taxi operator who wanted to buy Innova will settle for an Ertiga or the likes.
OT:
Yeah it does, having(still do) driven one for the past 5 years I can vouch for that. Of course they would not settle for an Ertiga, the car-nut that I am cannot come to terms with all that power being locked. Does not mean I support taxi drivers going crazy with power.

Last edited by Shanksta : 12th September 2017 at 17:02.
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Old 12th September 2017, 19:26   #83
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
Thank you for highlighting the problem with our country. For any change to come about we do not focus on trying to achieve that but rather worry about the large population. It can definitely be implemented if the government takes it seriously.
As a matter of fact, our Government is indeed taking the relevant step towards solving the problem, in consideration of the large population.
Stopping one violation through this speed restriction would actually prevent several highway deaths due to over speeding in a year.

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Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
Also in this case the blanket ban will be able to stop only one violation i.e. over-speeding on highways. You can still run red lights, drive rashly, drive on the wrong side, hogging the right lane, driving without a license, over-speeding on city roads, etc.,
I agree still one can jump red lights, criss-cross between vehicles, drive in the opposite direction, drive without license, drive at 80 kmph on a city road etc. All that can be prevented - ONE STEP AT A TIME, by finding solutions to the problems, one by one, and making roads more safer each year.

I still repeat - Due to the size of the population, it is impossible for our police force to catch hold of every violator driving on Indian roads 24*7*365. It is impractical. There needs to be some kind of self discipline and some automation to be involved here. I see this restriction as one step towards this and welcome this move.
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Old 12th September 2017, 20:05   #84
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Good description.
But still, there is a difference between a generator and the engine of a scooter/bike.
The generator adjusts itself directly (RPM), when there is a need to produce more or less electricity.

But, How does the Alternator of a bike adjust itself (reduce it's rotational speed) or turn itself off to produce 'less' electrical power?

The speed at which the alternator rotates (which creates the electricity field, whether you use it or not), is governed directly by the engine speed, which is in turn, directly governed by the user's Right Hand and not by the switching on/off of the Headlamp.

Please, correct me if i am mistaken.
Well in case of a generator, the rpm does not change significantly during load. Let me explain:

Lets say a petrol engine is designed to put out max power at 3600 rpm (say 13 bhp). A suitable alternator will be selected that would generate 220v @ 50-60 hz at 3600 rpm. These two will be paired.
Now the throttle of generator would be set to maintain 3600 rpm.

Say generator is started with no load, thus the magnetic field inside the stator would be rotating and engine will be consuming some fuel to just maintain the desired rpm.

As of this state, voltage is generated but no current flows as no load is connected.

Remember, voltage is pushed and current is pulled.

Say now some load is connected which causes current to flow. This flow of current will generate reverse magnetic field which will be a mechanical resistance. This will cause the rpm to drop but the generator would want to spin at 3600 rpm at all time. To do this, it would use more fuel. Similarly, when the load is disconnected, the fuel intake will be reduced.

Please note that this explanation is for non-AVR topology.

Now coming back to your point about drop in rpm in case of bike. Basically it depends on implementation. Let me explain one implementation.

When you switch on headlamp during idling, there is a drop in voltage (below 12v). The charge setup is designed in a way that it wont allow current to flow from alternator to battery at idle rpm.

Thus in this case, the battery starts discharging. As a rider, you dont see any affect on engine rpm. However, when you start to ride, the rpm will exceed the charging threshold rpm, and during that period, the alternator will load the engine to charge the battery; thus using extra fuel! There can be n number of implementation like current/voltage control.

Hope this clears the initial argument.
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Old 12th September 2017, 20:15   #85
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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So foolish, these people have no brains at all I tell you, let me list down why

1) A taxi is overtaking a truck on a single lane highway, he starts the overtake, the road takes a slight downhill and the truck touches 80, the taxi touches 80 and he can't overtake and is just next to the truck, he ends up being in a head on crash situation, why? because some idiot thought 80 kmph should be the speed limit.

2) Why 80 is too slow? India has moved on from what India was 10 years back, Highways are fantastic, roads are 4 lanes at many places, even in the early 2000's or even late 90's, Maruti 800's and Alto 800's could do 100 and 100+ easily, and now you are making a 76 bhp, 190 nm torque diesel car speed limited to 80? Sheesh

3) Anyone who is dumb will crash at 60, 80 too, why enforce it with an iron curtain to 80?

4) Someone has an emergency in a car, the driver can't do anything but drive at 80.
Sorry mate, but can't agree with your argument here!
Let's go through scenarios put forward by you:

1) If the truck you're overtaking is faster, you don't overtake!! Ease off, get behind the truck and overtake when the truck is slower than 80 kmph!

2) M800's and Alto's doing 100 kmph would be at their limit, with their skimpy 12/13" 145 section tyres! Just because you CAN do 100 kmph, it doesn't make it safe. The idea of limiting the speed is to REDUCE the PROBABILITY of an accident, not to negate the POSSIBILITY.

3) PROBABILITY of a crash at 60 kmph would be way less than at 80 kmph, taking into consideration centrifugal forces while cornering and braking distances!

Well, you could get into a crash even at 0 kmph if you decide to suddenly stop on the fast lane on a 6-8 lane highway!

4) How many Ambulances have you seen flying down roads at 100-110 kmph? Most Ambulances are Tempo Travellers, whose comfortable cruising speed is around 80 kmph. Does that mean those Ambulances don't save lives? Also, have you noticed Ambulances switching off their sirens on open highways and allowing cars faster than them to pass them?

It is never the top speed of the vehicle which saves lives in emergencies - but how fast they can move through congestion which is the deciding factor.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
A bone of contention, why limit it only to Taxis? Why not personal cars too? Why not scooters? KTM's, Hayabusa's, Ferraris, Porche's, Audi's, all those Q7's and RS4's too?

This country is going to dogs, can't speak your mind, loot in the form of unreasonable taxes everyday on everything, Petrol almost touching 80 when crude is below 60 dollars, I can go on and on.

Is this the acche din we were promised or was the promise only for selected few?

I find the whole 80 thing very juvenilish and stupid but if I play along with the government's logic, If Taxi's are limited to 80, everything else should be too, "Goli kisi ka number plate dekh ke nahi lagti"
Agreed, there have been a lot of things our governments haven't been doing over the past 70+ years! That shouldn't be a criterion not to applaud a measure taken in the right direction is what I feel!
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Old 12th September 2017, 20:34   #86
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Based on the 80kmph logic, one means to say all accidents are caused at speeds over 80kmph?

Absurd, I'd say.

The number of accidents will come down only if:
>> People are educated on proper road sense
>> Illuminating all the roads with proper street lighting >> Not to mention the quality of roads that we are plying on daily needs to drastically improve.
Are we not paying road tax for 15 years?

The contractor should be legally bound to maintain the roads for at least 5 yes if not 10!

>> Don't we see a lot of buses and lorries plying on our roads without brake lights and indicators, some even with single headlamp!

I could go on and on but don't want to go off topic!
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Old 12th September 2017, 20:49   #87
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

A very good move indeed. I have always wondered that when data tells us most accidents are due to speed, why can't government mandate this at manufacturing level. The way it's done on a nano.

In a country where max speed limit is 100, that too on rare highways, why does a car need to go more than that. I know my comment will not go well with many on this forum, but of that saves lives along with respectable speeds, then why not?

Anyone supporting speed capability over 100 is indirectly supporting something that is illegal.

I would want this to be done to each and every vehicle that's manufactured or imported for use in this country.
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Old 12th September 2017, 20:55   #88
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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A very good move indeed. I have always wondered that when data tells us most accidents are due to speed, why can't government mandate this at manufacturing level. The way it's done on a nano.

In a country where max speed limit is 100, that too on rare highways, why does a car need to go more than that. I know my comment will not go well with many on this forum, but of that saves lives along with respectable speeds, then why not?

Anyone supporting speed capability over 100 is indirectly supporting something that is illegal.

I would want this to be done to each and every vehicle that's manufactured or imported for use in this country.
Very well said & +1 to that. Even if this ban saves a single life in this country - it is worth it. And surely it will save lives.

Like you said, it is very much worth putting a blanket speed limit of 100kmph on all vehicles altogether. Doesn't make sense when people argue that they want to go at a speed higher than a legally allowed limit. It is indeed openly admitting to breaking the law of the land. (I know that people break a lot of even more stringent laws in killing someone and what not, but that doesn't justify breaking lower level laws.)
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Old 12th September 2017, 21:42   #89
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Can you explain 'technically' how?
I am curious to know.
https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitst...=1&isAllowed=y

Hope the above is 'technical' enough.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:47   #90
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

80 kms/hr is not at all good to overtake trailers on highways (single lane without dividers) and thereby increasing risk of accidents. I feel this will add more stress and fatigue to driver. Sweet spot is 110 kms/hr

Instead of 80 Km/hr speed limit, someone should invent a kit which will stall the engine when it comes in close proximity to another vehicle (with engine running ). Some private/taxi drivers are so pathetic that they come too close to our vehicle when we wait in toll nakas and even during bumper to bumper traffic.
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