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Old 15th September 2017, 08:16   #106
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

I welcome this move. The taxi drivers are some of the worst drivers, and they drive maniacally. Not to mention that many times they are also on the phone and are distracted too.

Recently, lost a close relative because a cab drive ploughed into him at high speed as he was crossing the street, without even slowing down at the intersection :(

For all those claiming education, implementation etc is better alternative, it won't work in India. If you leave it to implementation, it will just mean more bribes for policemen who catch you. Not to mention that there is hardly any traffic policemen on the road. Here in Hyderabad, I have seen vehicles brazenly violate traffic rules right in front to police stations, including blocking the free left lane in front of police station, and they don't even lift an eyelid.

Coming to education, I have seen the so-called IT crowd, many of whom have visited countries abroad and followed traffic rules there, violating rules like the roads belong to them. The one that gets my goat is trying to overtake from wrong lane, blocking traffic from opposite direction and leading to a traffic jam. That's why police put hard lane dividers to prevent people from doing it.

Driver education and implementation fails the moment even one person breaks it. Near my home, during peak traffic, all it takes is one idiot on the motorcycle to have a brilliant idea of driving on footpath to go to the front, and everyone else will blindly follow him, causing potential harm to pedestrians and themselves.

Even inside my IT company, in spite of having boards about speed limits, people drive like maniacs, even though its hardly half a km inside the campus. When so called educated and literate drivers do this, how do you expect people like cab drivers and auto rickshaw drivers whose main aim is to finish the current trip asap and find a next one, to follow rules?

In India, its an unfortunate truth that unless there is a reward or punishment, people will not follow the rules, whether traffic rules, paying tax or anything. Punishment leads to corruption. So make it physically harder for them to do it with things like speed governors. Thats the only way to force people to follow law.
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Old 15th September 2017, 10:19   #107
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post
Just curious to know what is the benchmark for "Experience"! These call center/Uber/Ola cabs drive 200-300 kms a day which means at least 50,000 kms a year. They are behind wheel at least 10 hours a day.. still we, who spend few minutes/hours a day call them inexperienced to handle cars! We also say that cab drivers have fatigue. You too working for 9-10 hours in a stressed environment before heading home. You too may have lot of things in mind for tomorrow..Are you still feeling fresh?
...
This may not be the perfect solution. Can we, collectively think of anything better (given how the law enforcement related to traffic is in our country)?

I think you have partly answered yourself. The taxis spend much more time on the roads, than most of the private car owners. And with the way the traffic is on our roads, you really have to be a very very cool guy/girl not to have your blood pressure go high while driving on our roads, particularly in the cities. Driving continuously on the road brings in much more fatigue than probably what you would get working in an office. This makes the taxi drivers and taxis all the more vulnerable to accidents, rash driving etc. And as many have said, the passengers literally have no way to handle these drivers if they are found to be driving rashly or over-speeding. Some listen to you, most won't. I have used some taxi operators many times whose drivers never exceeded the 80 kmph speed limit on the Mumbai-Pune expressway in spite of having free straight wide roads in front of them. Such folks will not have any issue with this new rule/implementation at all.

As for private drivers like us, may be they should selectively start implementing such speed limits when a driver is caught doing insane speeds/rash driving - they should forcefully do this update on the car being used and make the driver pay for everything.

Just like CIBIL rating, allowing one to get loans, India should start awarding negative points to license holders (some states already do this - but we do not have a PAN India mechanism yet) and those who get certain number of negative points should have their licenses suspended, cancelled, penalized in other ways etc. They can even go as far as to not allow such people to even buy a vehicle in the future. Automating the mechanism of penalizing traffic violators is what will effectively make our people better drivers.

Just my two cents.
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Old 15th September 2017, 16:16   #108
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

This is one habit curbed, which is great! What about the other one, where at 80 kmph, some of the taxi drivers would continue to drive in the right (overtaking) lane on a highway
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Old 15th September 2017, 16:22   #109
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by rohin4110 View Post
This is one habit curbed, which is great! What about the other one, where at 80 kmph, some of the taxi drivers would continue to drive in the right (overtaking) lane on a highway
That they do in any case. We encounter plenty of them on NH8, isn't it? In fact, I sometimes think they don't know that right lane is for overtaking.
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Old 15th September 2017, 17:05   #110
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by DuHasstMich View Post
Few other suggestions:
1. Link the driving license to Aadhar #, strictly controlling 1 DL only and enable easy verification.
2. Make it mandatory to declare all drivers who will be driving a particular car, make it clear that insurance payout will happen only if a declared driver is driving the car.
3. Link all challans to the Aadhar#, through DL. This will be used to calculate insurance premiums. Different type of challans to have varied impact.
4. Do not renew insurance, till all challans pending for the driver and car are cleared. Currently lot of challans are just left hanging.

Unless we take a wholesome approach, all small/minor steps will go in vain.
Seems #1 is on the cards!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/60526561.cms
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Old 15th September 2017, 17:51   #111
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by sanchari View Post
I welcome this move. The taxi drivers are some of the worst drivers, and they drive maniacally.

Coming to education, I have seen the so-called IT crowd, many of whom have visited countries abroad and followed traffic rules there, violating rules like the roads belong to them.

Even inside my IT company, in spite of having boards about speed limits, people drive like maniacs, even though its hardly half a km inside the campus. When so called educated and literate drivers do this, how do you expect people like cab..
That's it.. the rule should be applicable to all..
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Old 15th September 2017, 18:16   #112
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Many don't even know that you have to overtake from the right and that slow moving vehicles need to be on left. Even though the national highways have signs at frequent intervals, the slower ones, especially trucks and government buses, not to mention tractors etc happily chug along in the right lane!

In fact, I feel at the movies, they should show short films on following traffic rules like they play the national anthem. Also, govt should make it mandatory for taxi firm/transport firms/govt transport services to have refresher courses for their drivers every six months or so. And the firms should also provide the drivers with hands free devices. I am appalled to see so many uber/ola drivers talking on the phone and driving haphazardly. They are potential accidents waiting to happen.

Last edited by sanchari : 15th September 2017 at 18:19.
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Old 17th September 2017, 12:55   #113
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
Sorry mate, but can't agree with your argument here!
Let's go through scenarios put forward by you:
Yes, Let us

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
1) If the truck you're overtaking is faster, you don't overtake!! Ease off, get behind the truck and overtake when the truck is slower than 80 kmph!
So trucks these days are no slouches, they can manage a 80+ easily, with a speed limit of 80 in a Dzire, you want him to overtake a truck going easily 70+ with a 5 to 7 kmph speed difference? It will be like those trucks racing each other and trying to overtake each other with a minimum speed difference, this will lead to more head on situations on single highways.

Let me also show you how absurd your argument sounds?

You as a human are born with some special powers that a guy driving a yellow number plate does not have? He drives around 20 times more distance than you everyday, but you get to reign the full force of your car and he gets it obstructed to 80 kmph when some highways in India have their speed limits at 100 and going to be increased to 120 and you want this poor guy pottering around at 80 and that too hard coded that into the system so that he can't budge a kilometre more than that even when he is overtaking?

Ever tried overtaking anyone in India with a speed limit set at 80? Let's see you do that on a 500 km trip like that. Imagine the plight of the new Innova, in its automatic variant, it will never shift to 6th gear with the speed hardcoded at 80.

https://www.drivespark.com/four-whee...ry-022765.html

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
2) M800's and Alto's doing 100 kmph would be at their limit, with their skimpy 12/13" 145 section tyres! Just because you CAN do 100 kmph, it doesn't make it safe. The idea of limiting the speed is to REDUCE the PROBABILITY of an accident, not to negate the POSSIBILITY.
Sorry, a K10 Alto would be no where near it limit at 100 kmph, cars these days are no Premier Padmini's and Ambassadors. It comes with 155-65-R13's btw and if the tyres are skinny, why not force the car manufacturers to tyre them right? Yes, the speed limit might not permit you to push an Alto to its limit, but its no where near its limit at 100 kmph.

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
3) PROBABILITY of a crash at 60 kmph would be way less than at 80 kmph, taking into consideration centrifugal forces while cornering and braking distances!
Working from home would lead to 0 chances of a crash too right?

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
4) How many Ambulances have you seen flying down roads at 100-110 kmph? Most Ambulances are Tempo Travellers, whose comfortable cruising speed is around 80 kmph. Does that mean those Ambulances don't save lives? Also, have you noticed Ambulances switching off their sirens on open highways and allowing cars faster than them to pass them?
I live near the highway and I have seen most of them barrel down 100 plus.

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Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe View Post
It is never the top speed of the vehicle which saves lives in emergencies - but how fast they can move through congestion which is the deciding factor.
In that case this rule should be for all, every vehicle available in India, we are no greater drivers than the taxi guy, we will not crash on a fur ball vs them on steel if we crash, why this arrogance only towards them?
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Old 17th September 2017, 22:03   #114
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Yes, Let us

So trucks these days are no slouches ......

You as a human are born with some special powers .....

Sorry, a K10 Alto would be no where near it limit at 100 kmph ....

In that case this rule should be for all ...... why this arrogance only towards them?

Still don't agree with yours or anyone else's argument that this is a stupid move.

It is a fact that > 90% of commercial vehicle drivers are more careless and reckless than private vehicle drivers. There may be a lot of reasons for that - The need to do more number of trips (eg. Bolero Pick up), need to get back to base quickly after that airport/railway station run (eg. Dezire cab) etc. etc. Also, mostly vehicle does not belong to the driver, hence the decreased need to preserve the machine as well!

We are talking about this particular move made by the Government. Maybe this is not the ONLY way to decrease accidents, but this DEFINITELY is one! Maybe we can bring in other ways to curb accidents IN ADDITION TO this move, but that should be another topic of discussion.

I'm comparing two scenarios here:
1. No speed limits for any vehicle
VS
2. Speed limit for commercial vehicles

My opinion and the fact is that scenario 2 is better than scenario 1. Maybe scenarios 4, 5, 6 can come in the future, but as of today, this is what is available, and I support it fully!



Addendum:
MODS - Can we have a public poll on this topic? Would be nice to quantify the public opinion!

Last edited by Geo_Ipe : 17th September 2017 at 22:07.
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Old 17th September 2017, 23:33   #115
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Over the last 10 years the driving etiquette of people throughout Bombay (especially the suburbs) has deteriorated significantly.
Driving on the opposite side of the road, not indicating and suddenly changing lanes are almost a common site (I'm not going to go to the rise in overall levels of aggression!). Thankfully, due to the advent of e-challans, people are more careful about speeding and breaking signals.
Over the last year or two, there has been visibly a huge increase in the number of commercially registered passenger cars (mostly aggregators I'm assuming), and a large proportion of this segment do drive really badly.

My point is that most of the bad driving that happens in the city is at speeds south of 80 km/h. And there are cameras on most roads where one can go above 80 km/h. So what is the point of this (regressive) measure?

A badly driven car when when driven at even 30 km/h can prove to be extremely dangerous, if not fatal for pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, and other cars!

We do not need mechanised solutions which take us back to a pre-liberalisation era, but rather need to implement systems that ensure:
a. Driving rules are learnt by everyone who applies for a license (and they should be tested on it)
b. The need for driving rules is understood (sadly, when the value of a human life is as low as it is in a country like ours, this is going to take a while! Besides, the people imparting the training need to believe in it themselves)
c. The rules are implemented systematically
d. Road infrastructure is conducive to safe driving (the number of two wheeler accidents that happen because of (not) potholed roads is ridiculous, there are places where signals can be eliminated in lieu of underpasses)

The most important, and toughest, factor I think is changing the mindset of people to encourage safe driving. One way to get around it is for by first training drivers of government sectors (read: BEST drivers, police vehicles, garbage trucks, etc.) then having it trickle down to people who apply for new licenses. While simultaneously, the municipality works on improving the transportation infrastructure.

Anyway, who am I kidding, like we're ever going not going to be regressive. (Though I do wonder ever so often what our growth rate might have been if we had guys who genuinely cared about growth and development in positions of power)

Last edited by mango_pal : 17th September 2017 at 23:35.
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Old 19th September 2017, 08:19   #116
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

The core question for me still remains - does India have an authoritative database of automotive accidents?

Does this measure stand the pareto test? Does this single decree eliminate a large % of accident causes in one fell swoop? If not, it is another well meaning but ultimately pointless decree adding to the long list of pointless laws in India that achieve nothing.

The other issue is that safety is an ecosystem thing - you need traffic cameras, stringent policing to make safe driving a habit, like it happens overseas. Fortunately Delhi Police through their social media challans still make the enforcement abilities omnipresent but I doubt any other concerted effort would be happening in parallel by other police forces (except the impeccable Chennai Police who have been amazingly strict AND efficient since forever!).
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Old 19th September 2017, 19:40   #117
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

Ideally a better solution would be do some tweaking to the ECU and fueling so that the taxi cars cannot be driven AGGRESSIVELY rather than limit the top speed
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:24   #118
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

I think this is an excellent move. I see too many taxi cabs driving at extremely high speed in the nights on the Chennai OMR road. OMR is a 6 lane road and is the IT corridor. Trying going on OMR after 10 PM between Sholingnallur and Madhya Kailash and you can see numerous taxis going at high speeds and with scant regard for speed limits. There are some non taxi cabs as well which go but you bet that 8 out of 10 speeding cars will be taxi.
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Old 20th September 2017, 14:13   #119
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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That they do in any case. We encounter plenty of them on NH8, isn't it? In fact, I sometimes think they don't know that right lane is for overtaking.
Absolutely! There needs to be a drive like they have in Delhi, where at least the heavy vehicles can not get into the other lanes, other than the left lane that is dedicated to them! Often, frequent lane changing at high speeds on the highway due to these morons driving in the right lane leads to near fatal misses or serious accidents. But alas, we are a long way away as a country to enforce this basic driving rule, as the traffic police has bigger challenges at hand
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Old 25th September 2017, 14:43   #120
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Default Re: Maruti Dzire Tour S - Now speed limited to 80 kmph!

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Just curious to know what is the benchmark for "Experience"! These call center/Uber/Ola cabs drive 200-300 kms a day which means at least 50,000 kms a year. They are behind wheel at least 10 hours a day.. still we, who spend few minutes/hours a day call them inexperienced to handle cars! We also say that cab drivers have fatigue. You too working for 9-10 hours in a stressed environment before heading home. You too may have lot of things in mind for tomorrow..Are you still feeling fresh?

The point I am trying to make is,
I am against the view that my car is a private Nano still I should be allowed to do triple digit speeds.
I completely agree with your point - it would make it safer for mass transport on our roads in general, but the taxis are a different ballgame all together at the same time - especially with strong unions backing them.
Those who really care will find a work around it anyways.

Ideally, the speed limit could even be dependent on the braking distance & safety ratings of the vehicle. There are a hundred ways to find the 'perfect' solution - but getting everyone's consensus on it will just not be possible.

As for experience, there is no benchmark.
There are a few handful of good taxi drivers - most of them already employed by the private sector (travel agencies, hotels, etc. and driving luxury vehicles including the Innova and BMWs); and even a few good taxi drivers.
But the way the infra has grown, especially in the major cities and highway networks (most of these guys haven't been educated on highway driving etiquette); outdated taxis (Padmini's and Santros and Eecos primarily in Mumbai); the rise of UBER & Ola and the likes which see a lot of drivers who did not have proper training and people who have switched careers (and a lot of whom are always on the rush for their next fare in the ever competitive marketplace); and poor driving education (I remember reading a thread on TBHP about a BHPian who earned his taxi license in Australia (IIRC) and the tough processes and tests they had) etc. it all has resulted in chaos and a high number of accidents in our country.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction, but we will only know when we see the next years road safety statistics.

Just for the record - we have employed a 50 year old ex-taxi driver. He was bad when he started out, but a great person. He had met with a few fender benders during his initial few months - just adapting to a newer and faster car maybe; but with the right training & and enthusiastic mind - he got promoted to driving the 5 series regularly before we sold it.
Great guy! Loyal, hard working, honest & motivated.

Similarly, a lot of the taxi drivers I've encountered are amazing and very patient drivers!
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