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Old 29th November 2006, 10:56   #76
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
  • Does your friend understand Korean or were they talking in broken English among themselves? As long as they are talking among themselves they are free to talk what ever they want.
  • Hyundai has been making cars in Chennai for more than 7 years now and things have gone so well that India is the only global source for the SANTRO. If they had bad labor relations then its not possible to achieve all this.
  • Talk to companies like FIAT and Mahindra....these companies almost went bankrupt because of labor problems.
  • ITs a free country and all large manufacturing companies have labor unions whose job is to ensure that employees are not mistreated.
  • Even foriegn auto companies like Honda 2 wheeler plant and TKM have had some serious problems with culture clash between Japanese management and Indian labor, why has this not come out to the open here.
  • Its true that Koreans are highly motivated and driven by national pride and could have make the remark about Indians which could be true. As long as there is not evidence of mistreatment what can we do about it.
Mpower,

1. My colleague reported that they spoke in English with their Indian employees. There was another incident that happened when my colleague had gone there that I will not putting up here due to its (even more) politically sensitive nature.

2. I wouldnt be cognizant of any grassroots labor problems Hyundai might/might not have

4. Good point. Perhaps the Indians badmouthed at that day werent labor but more middle-management.

-Mahesh
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Old 30th November 2006, 00:24   #77
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I disagree. Hyundai in India follows marketing practices that are laid down for Hyundai showrooms the world over. It would be naive to assume their sales and marketing prowess is something they conjured up on the fly in India.

Until much after 1990, Suzuki refused to transfer gearbox technology to Maruti. They thought Indians "incapable" of handling it. This smacks of racism. Should we stop buying Maruti then, since it makes a major contribution to Suzuki's bottomline?

Peter Hartz of the Volkswagen board of directors was recently indicted on charges of embezzlement to set up a slush fund to cater to the whims of union leaders. There are allegations of sexual favours, free airline tickets, and large sums of money. Allegedly, the whole VW board was well aware of this. Should we stop buying Skodas and Touaregs? Henry Ford was a well-known anti-Semite and was greatly admired by Adolf Hitler. No Fiestas then, for us?

We have no one to blame but ourselves for this whole issue.
Man... I couldnt have said it better... but cant resist adding this...

First. I'm not a fan of the koreans/germans/americans/fill this space with any other car manufacturing nationality that thinks its Gods gift to us. I couldnt care less about what they think of themselves as a car maker or as a race. If I see a car i like, I buy it. It could be made in Sri Lanka for all I care (no offence meant to that country, just an example).

I dont like the fact that this thread has turned to Hyundai bashing with people saying "I wont buy Hyundai because they look down upon Indians"... C'mon!!!..... You dont buy stuff because the mfr can recite our national anthem, you buy it cuz you like what they're selling.

Hyundai has come into India looking up at the daunting task of dethroning Maruti from the no.1 position. A huge target if you ask me. They have managed to get as high as no.2 and thats not something achieved easily. I respect them as a company for having the manmarbles to come to a difficult country like ours where infrastructure sucks and selling is far from logical.

Having run a company with 1200+ manpower, I can understand their pains and admire their ability to manage our difficult labour workforce. If they have to shout at a few of their (very well paid) senior executives once in a while, to ensure I buy a car that works, so be it... I would rather buy a product from them that works than buy a product from a company thats soft on its people and that eventually shows in shoddy production and unreliable products.

As far as the scandal issue is concerned, top management in most large companies have to do transactions that are... ummm.. questionable? (for lack of a better word)... but neverthless, very much part of their job profile. Its these CEOs that eventually bite the bullet while the money goes elsewhere. Of course, they know they were well paid to do what they did and the eventualilties are something they are well prepared for. These things happen everywhere, in Korea, in the US, in Europe and in India. Lets not be ignorant.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Koreans are a very hard working breed... Their products are better engineered, manufactured (there may be some exceptions though I havent seen any) than the Chinese. How many of you are using a Samsung/LG Keyboard, Monitor, Hard Drive, Fridge, Aircon, Washing machine, cellphone... etc. more than a few i guess... So lets reserve the korean bashing for when we surpass them as a nation. Till then lets respect them (not to be confused with butt kissing, please!) and learn a few things from them... Remember, its not easy going to a foreign country where everyone calls you a "chinki", and thinks you are an educated version of their poor Nep servant at home.

Every story has two sides...
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Old 30th November 2006, 01:51   #78
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Indians need to self respect themselves. Then only other will respect you. A person who doesn't even clean his own room in his house will go and clean roads in Dubai or else where in Middle East just for the sake of money. If Indian people had the attitude to clean their country's roads promptly we would have world class roads too.
I don't agree with your statement. An Indian worker / labor who goes into foreign land and works their as laborer is no different then the laborer works in India. By working in foreign land they earn more money hence higher standard of living for their family in India. Why do you think they go to foreign land and are ready to work like that?. Its because conditions are even worst over here in our own country then foreign land. If you have ever been to Bombay or you stay here you must have noticed 1000's of laborers sleeping on the road. There is no shelter available for them where they can sleep in the night and its just impossible for them to travel from their villages to their work so they live extremely harsh life's. Last time I heard this is not the case with labor working in dubai.

Indian roads are never properly clean. The reason is not because their is not enough labor available its because our people lack civic sense and their is no efficiency in government / municipal staff due to under deployment, shortage of tools, lack of interest in work and corruption. There are 1000's of unemployed labor available and ready to work on roads but we don't have effient muncipal system who can depoly them properly and get work done.

If you go to private estates / areas you can see everything is properly cleaned and you won't even fine one paper roaming on the road.

just my 2 cents.
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Old 30th November 2006, 12:14   #79
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Originally Posted by vivekkr_99 View Post
1. They are very very hard working and they make you work really hard to meet deadlines. According to some of my friends there, their main aim is to beat the Japanese, and they will go to any extent to achieve that.
2. They are very animated in their discussions, and from their tone and actions we sometimes felt that they were fighting with each other. But at least in my opinion, they are humble and give respect to others. I'm not saying that we disrespect other Indians, but I've felt that we give more importance to foreigners compared to our indian counterparts.
3. Regarding the manager-employee relationship, most of my Korean colleagues were literally afraid of their bosses, and there was a very well defined line between the two. The employees took every effort to see that their bosses were pleased with their work. Moreover their love and commitment towards the country drove them to put that extra effort.

I dont know exactly what takes place in the hyundai plant in India. But the fact is that they set very high expectations for the working hours and the effort from the employees. I personally dont expect any production unit to come to India and setup a plant, just to please the Indian masses and appease their employees. Their aim is to make profit, and they know very well how to squeeze the last drop from the employees to meet their targets. First, let us learn to respect other Indians irrespective of their status, then we can expect outsiders to give us respect.
Exactly..kudos to you vivekkr_99
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Old 30th November 2006, 12:32   #80
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The reason is not because their is not enough labor available its because our people lack civic sense and their is no efficiency in government / municipal staff due to under deployment, shortage of tools, lack of interest in work and corruption.
Our roads would be better if WE as a people stop spitting phlegm, pan and other assorted stuff from our mouths onto the roads, if we stopped littering the roads with wrappers, newspapers, cigarette packs and other stuff, if we stopped defeacating and urinating on the roads.

The problem is US first and THEN the system. The system is made up of people like US and will change if WE change. We keep blaming the system - make no mistake WE ARE THE SYSTEM.
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Old 30th November 2006, 13:30   #81
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I dont like the fact that this thread has turned to Hyundai bashing with people saying "I wont buy Hyundai because they look down upon Indians"... C'mon!!!..... You dont buy stuff because the mfr can recite our national anthem, you buy it cuz you like what they're selling.
Hyundai has come into India looking up at the daunting task of dethroning Maruti from the no.1 position. A huge target if you ask me. They have managed to get as high as no.2 and thats not something achieved easily. I respect them as a company for having the manmarbles to come to a difficult country like ours where infrastructure sucks and selling is far from logical.
Having run a company with 1200+ manpower, I can understand their pains and admire their ability to manage our difficult labour workforce. If they have to shout at a few of their (very well paid) senior executives once in a while, to ensure I buy a car that works, so be it... I would rather buy a product from them that works than buy a product from a company thats soft on its people and that eventually shows in shoddy production and unreliable products.
As far as the scandal issue is concerned, top management in most large companies have to do transactions that are... ummm.. questionable? (for lack of a better word)... but neverthless, very much part of their job profile. Its these CEOs that eventually bite the bullet while the money goes elsewhere. Of course, they know they were well paid to do what they did and the eventualilties are something they are well prepared for. These things happen everywhere, in Korea, in the US, in Europe and in India. Lets not be ignorant.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Koreans are a very hard working breed... Their products are better engineered, manufactured (there may be some exceptions though I havent seen any) than the Chinese. How many of you are using a Samsung/LG Keyboard, Monitor, Hard Drive, Fridge, Aircon, Washing machine, cellphone... etc. more than a few i guess... So lets reserve the korean bashing for when we surpass them as a nation. Till then lets respect them (not to be confused with butt kissing, please!) and learn a few things from them... Remember, its not easy going to a foreign country where everyone calls you a "chinki", and thinks you are an educated version of their poor Nep servant at home.
Every story has two sides...
Very well put, Gunbir... with facts too...!!
I am sure none of us can refute the fact that the Koreans are a hard working lot, and deliver products which are reliable too.

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Actually, if you want you can even see Indians discriminating Indians. Its happened to us in Goa.

Those locals are so obsessed with the "goras" or rather their "hariali", that they feel it's not worth catering to other fellow Indians.
OFF TOPIC : How wud it feel when u come to know that a beach in Pondicherry is divided into two halves, one for the 'goras', and the other for the 'non-goras'. Felt insulted then.
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Old 30th November 2006, 13:53   #82
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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
A colleague of mine from our Chennai branch reported this situation at the Hyundai plant outside Chennai, when he'd visited there recently on a business requirement:

4-5 Korean (management?) people sitting around in chairs smoking while bad-mouthing the "miserable Indian people" that work there. Apparently Indians arent allowed to sit in the company of these Koreans. And even an Indian top man doesn't sit when Koreans are around. And this Korean group even taunted the Indian employees there with firing - as a regular conversational item. Apparently Koreans in Hyundai's India plant regularly look down publicly on the Indian workforce there - similar to a vassal system.

Quote:
The Indian employees my colleague interacted with told him to keep his mouth shut at that moment else they'll lose their jobs.
This is a totally unacceptable treatment by this Korean company toward our nationality. We should do something about it strongly.
the quoted text above is very strange indeed. you have made it out as if they are the KGB or the Gestapo. people whispering in corners, afraid to speak out for the fear of losing their jobs ? c'mon man, these koreans are inside india & running a business. they need our support. if your friend has really seen something like what you have made out, then the goons who took that bickerings totally deserve what was coming to them. the country is moving forward & there are plenty of jobs on offer. hyundai is not the only car factory in chennai.
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Old 30th November 2006, 14:11   #83
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OFF TOPIC : How wud it feel when u come to know that a beach in Pondicherry is divided into two halves, one for the 'goras', and the other for the 'non-goras'. Felt insulted then.
I think I know of the beach you refer to. It's part of Auroville, and is as such a private beach for Aurovillians. The fact is, the most visible Aurovillians are white, and so all people shooed away think it's a gora-only beach. I have been there many times, as a guest of Aurovillian friends, and there is no discrimination.
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Old 30th November 2006, 15:13   #84
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I think I would agree the most with Steeroid's and Gunbir's comments. In addition....

RESPECT is never commanded or demanded at an individual's level....it is EARNED. How is it earned? By our own actions, deeds and the way in which we interact with other people (be they from our own country or "foreigner").

In case of Hyundai, if what is said is true, to my mind the only acceptable solution (without press / banning products etc) is for the Hyundai employees themselves to politely, but FIRMLY refuse to accept discrimination, if it is happening. If that does not elicit results, then other action should be contemplated.

Solutions to our own problems typically lie in ourselves rather than knee-jerk reactions.

Just my thoughts....
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Old 30th November 2006, 18:04   #85
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I think I know of the beach you refer to. It's part of Auroville, and is as such a private beach for Aurovillians. The fact is, the most visible Aurovillians are white, and so all people shooed away think it's a gora-only beach. I have been there many times, as a guest of Aurovillian friends, and there is no discrimination.
As per an old court ruling, 'private beaches' are no longer allowed in India.
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Old 1st December 2006, 07:30   #86
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I guess the Japanese & Koreans have a perception that they are not Asians and that God placed them in Asia by mistake!
They always think they are at par with Americans and Europeans! This is shown in their attitute towards other Asian countries....!
I believe all this is due to the following:

1.they believe they are more meticulous ; never mind , we are picking up
2.superior engineering(or copying skills)
3.well kept country ; different from ours.
4.also do not forget they are fair skinned..asians or no asians.
5.we accept all this nonsense .try mouthing abuses at any asian in any country other than India and see the reaction there.

Remember , India was on the move even when there was no Hyundai.
Unless such attitude of outsiders is nipped in the bud we can continue talking on this for centuries.
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Old 1st December 2006, 15:01   #87
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I don't agree with your statement. An Indian worker / labor who goes into foreign land and works their as laborer is no different then the laborer works in India. By working in foreign land they earn more money hence higher standard of living for their family in India. Why do you think they go to foreign land and are ready to work like that?. Its because conditions are even worst over here in our own country then foreign land. If you have ever been to Bombay or you stay here you must have noticed 1000's of laborers sleeping on the road. There is no shelter available for them where they can sleep in the night and its just impossible for them to travel from their villages to their work so they live extremely harsh life's. Last time I heard this is not the case with labor working in dubai.

Indian roads are never properly clean. The reason is not because their is not enough labor available its because our people lack civic sense and their is no efficiency in government / municipal staff due to under deployment, shortage of tools, lack of interest in work and corruption. There are 1000's of unemployed labor available and ready to work on roads but we don't have effient muncipal system who can depoly them properly and get work done.

If you go to private estates / areas you can see everything is properly cleaned and you won't even fine one paper roaming on the road.

just my 2 cents.
I've been to Bombay and have seen whatever you've said. You're very much right. And the only foreign land I've gone is the UAE. I've worked there for almost 2 years.

Apart from the beautiful, rich and high society status of UAE including Dubai there is a pathetic and wretched side to it. Most Indian based companies are too business minded rather than a professional approach. Humanitarian values for these companies are also among the lowest. The labour force encounters worser situations than you find in Bombay. They've to work in horrible heat and dust. Moreover they are not paid salaries on time. As you can see the news from that part of the world the level of suicide rates especially among Indian laborers are increasing year by year.

Situations are even worser where Indians work under Arab people. There are some people in this forum from Dubai who may know these things.

If you take the case of rich Indians working in foreign countries, they will obey the laws of that country strictly. Wont litter any garbage on roads etc. but the very same elite Indians doesnt care to do that when they come back home. Our President Mr. A.P.J. Kalam once said about this.

Unless Indians change their attitude they'll be facing the same situations anywhere.

Last edited by adarsh76 : 1st December 2006 at 15:03.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 02:02   #88
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Our roads would be better if WE as a people stop spitting phlegm, pan and other assorted stuff from our mouths onto the roads, if we stopped littering the roads with wrappers, newspapers, cigarette packs and other stuff, if we stopped defeacating and urinating on the roads.

The problem is US first and THEN the system. The system is made up of people like US and will change if WE change. We keep blaming the system - make no mistake WE ARE THE SYSTEM.
Usually when I buy vada pav, sandwidth or anything like that, i usually find it impossible to find a dustbin to dispose off papers etc., so most of the time I usually put that stuff in side pockets of my car and then throw it in big dumping dustbin I find or put it in plastic bag and dispose off along with other garbage.

Isn't it duty of municipality to provide proper dustbins on roads and bulk public urinals on roads every 500mts? If they won't build infrastructure all these things are going to continue. Yes, the SYSTEM IS WRONG and CORRUPT.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 02:47   #89
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Situations are even worser where Indians work under Arab people. There are some people in this forum from Dubai who may know these things.
You are right. Construction industry in Dubai is exploiting workers at highest degree. I researched and here is what I found

Building Towers, Cheating Workers: Exploitation of Migrant Construction Workers in the United Arab Emirates: V. Exploitation of Migrant Construction Workers
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Old 3rd December 2006, 12:19   #90
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OFF TOPIC

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Originally Posted by Max View Post
You are right. Construction industry in Dubai is exploiting workers at highest degree. I researched and here is what I found

Building Towers, Cheating Workers: Exploitation of Migrant Construction Workers in the United Arab Emirates: V. Exploitation of Migrant Construction Workers
THIS is again thanks to fellow Indians (95% of the exploitation)
who have made it a business "visa business" and also since there is construction boom all over Gulf they (fellow Indians) will subcontract labourers and of the 7k/p.m. approx salary which the labourer would earn direct from the company this subcontracter will then keep 2k equivalent for himself saying its his expenses to maintain paperwork etc required by the Ministry for that labourer.
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