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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:38   #31
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

I really hope Tata Motors will be able to deliver these EVs -

1. Decent product quality (and not with niggles). If with niggles, Govt departments will not care and/or discard the product.

2. This could be a major PR win if everything goes well (Product + adherence to delivery schedule + post delivery service). If it doesn't, it will be a PR disaster, which Tata Motors can certainly avoid at this point of attempted revival in its business.

3. Not sure what the range of these EVs are going to be? I see different figures from 100KM per charge. That is quite low in my opinion.

4. I hope the govt has come up/comes up with an appropriate policy to dispose off batteries at the end of their life cycle. And also enforces it.


I do hope Tata Motors does deliver on this. Not only because I want Tata Motors to jump start on EVs. But its our money, tax payer's money that the Govt. is spending/experimenting with!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:48   #32
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
When Tata releases an electric car to the market, we can be sure it is well tested, as it is will be first tested with government officials! What a way to kick start electric vehicles in the country!
, Loved the way you summed it up.

Looking at the rapid developments, will we see a production model in the 2018 auto expo ? and if TATA can roll out 10000 of these cars, we should also see these cars hitting show rooms by end of 2018 isnt it ? Cant wait to hear more on this
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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:53   #33
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

I think Tata's hardwork is finally paying off. Despite being the brunt of many a joke, they have duly stuck to their job with the help of able people at the forefront and their vision.

10,000 EV cars is a dream come true. Any EV manufacturer would love to be in this spot where they know that they already have a confirmed count. This would help in good measure for EVs to become a reality in the country with the right infrastructure being in place. Like someone mentioned here, the total number of EVs in the Indian market over these years is not even close to this single order.

Looking forward to a very good 2018 in terms of EVs. Kudos to Tata and a nice gesture from Anand Mahindra too!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 12:46   #34
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

I dare say, this will be the Model T for EVs in India. When I first read the news on money control, I thought it is a printing mistake & they swapped names between Mahindra & Tata!
However, a job half done yet for bagging such a jaw dropping single order. When they adhere to the timeline with a stable, niggle free product, then it is JOB WELL DONE.

Last edited by speedguy : 3rd October 2017 at 12:48.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 12:51   #35
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

A wonderful news & glad as ever to see a true Indian brand win it from the government. I presume it will be a an electric Tigor.

However this is a coin like all coins. It has 2 sides. Its an excellent win & headline grabbing performance. Mostly they'll deliver the cars on time and in budget also. It will be wonderful for the PR.

Afterwards though - the cars are going into government use. There is no guarantee of how they'll be maintained & whether the users will be competent enough to manage such delicate piece of machinery. If there are issues created in these cars (and trust me, it is easy to get help from staff in such cases for small amounts of money to create bad publicity), then it will be a big negative PR also. While hoping success for TML, we have to hope for no sabotage from the competitors in this ruthless game.

And really hope that the product is indeed good and not some half baked cookie.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 13:50   #36
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Tata Motors have indeed worked on refining EV powertrains for many years now, and the EV prototype versions of their IC cars have been noted for how 'production ready' they looked.

The only thing TM had not done was a commercial launch, and I think that was sensible given that the effective price will be much higher than IC car of the same type. Mahindra's own experience also shows this.

I doubt if TM will make any profits on this project. They are probably looking to break even and learn a whole lot in the process. Nobody has 10,000 electric cars on road in India. TM can hopefully optimise the car for the EV powertrain, for example increase range by reducing the weight of the car. Reduce the number of components and sub-assemblies. Establish a standard superfast charger design for India etc.

They may have a unique opportunity here. Tigor has not been successful in the IC form. If they discontinue the normal Tigor and position it as an electric only vehicle, some changes to the car can help it to be positioned directly against the 10-12Lac IC cars (instead of the the 6-7 Lac cars). That will create an interesting play - Except for range, you get an EV for 10% premium over a roughly equivalent IC car!

Silent, powerful at low speeds due to the electric torque, low 'fuel' costs, low maintenance as there is no engine, clutch and transmission. Even brake wear and tear should be lower if they are using regenerative braking for some of the braking. Market it with a 5-7 year TCO lower than the IC cars.

Past Tata EV test drives have shown that they like aggressive regenerative brakes. The throttle is almost a single pedal driving mode for city usage. Car slows down quickly if you lift your foot off the accelerator. Ultimate automatic car.

Last edited by guptad42 : 3rd October 2017 at 13:53. Reason: Clarity
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Old 3rd October 2017, 13:51   #37
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
Bolt EV Drive video from 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
And really hope that the product is indeed good and not some half baked cookie.

The Red Ferret article was originally published a year ago, and the reviewer is surprised at how well built and complete the vehicle is. Electric vehicles being what they are, I'm certain that it will not be a huge ask to tailor the setup for the Tigor.

The relatively large boot of the Tigor may even help in packaging a larger battery after removing the fuel tank at a nominal loss of space in what will essentially be a city car.

Service and maintenance are part of the contract awarded to Tata, and let's be honest - no one blames Volvo for the condition of the city transport busses. Why would or should anyone then blame Tata?

Last edited by GTO : 4th October 2017 at 23:29. Reason: Trimming quote & removing video from it
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Old 3rd October 2017, 13:51   #38
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
There is no guarantee of how they'll be maintained & whether the users will be competent enough to manage such delicate piece of machinery.
Tata has probably thought of that already, plus electric cars are much, much more reliable than petrol/diesel -- simply because far fewer moving parts (approx 20 versus appox 2000). Here is an interesting article. Quote:

Quote:
To get a sense of what problems may occur, here is a list of the most common vehicle repairs from 2015:
  • Replacing an oxygen sensor  $249
  • Replacing a catalytic converter  $1,153
  • Replacing ignition coil(s) and spark plug(s)  $390
  • Tightening or replacing a fuel cap  $15
  • Thermostat replacement  $210
  • Replacing ignition coil(s)  $236
  • Mass air flow sensor replacement  $382
  • Replacing spark plug wire(s) and spark plug(s)  $331
  • Replacing evaporative emissions (EVAP) purge control valve  $168
  • Replacing evaporative emissions (EVAP) purging solenoid  $184
And this list raises an interesting observation: None of these failures exist in an electric vehicle.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 14:53   #39
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

With it's recent tech collabrations/assistance from JLR for the new SUV projects, it wont't be a surprise if TML ropes in EV tech from JLR's I-Pace which will be into the market soon.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 15:48   #40
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by guptad42 View Post
They may have a unique opportunity here. Tigor has not been successful in the IC form.

Silent, powerful at low speeds due to the electric torque, low 'fuel' costs, low maintenance as there is no engine, clutch and transmission. Even brake wear and tear should be lower if they are using regenerative braking for some of the braking. Market it with a 5-7 year TCO lower than the IC cars.

Past Tata EV test drives have shown that they like aggressive regenerative brakes. The throttle is almost a single pedal driving mode for city usage. Car slows down quickly if you lift your foot off the accelerator. Ultimate automatic car.
Very well said mate, but they do not need to discontinue the Tigor. The only weak link in the Tigor was the engine, but with the electric Tigor his issue will be sorted. This will be a serious threat to the sedans if launched around 9-10 lakhs.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 16:16   #41
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Another reason why the Tigor might be the right choice for an EV. It has one thing that we have come to expect from vehicles in this category - looking unorthodox. Who knows, this could be a "windows continuum" moment for Tata. They might start offering all their small cars with an electric option.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:05   #42
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

EESL's demand aggregation model has been a real market disruption in the past. Remember LED bulb prices 2-3 years back when 1W would cost around 50-60 bucks. Now it is easy to get a 7W LED in 100 - 120 bucks approx. This happened because of several billion light points installed by EESL through domestic and street lighting program in ESCO mode.

The current procurement is also for a ESCO mode replacement of existing govt. vehicles, where EESL bears the upfront cost and recovers the same through annuity. No doubt that manufacturers will price the vehicles aggressively, at least for public procurement and looking at volumes. A dedicated plant on a project mode may also be feasible in such scenario.

Last edited by ManishSoni : 4th October 2017 at 11:15.
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:32   #43
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

From the Economic Times:

Quote:
A week after awarding a Rs 1,120-crore order for electric cars to Tata Motors, state-run Energy Efficiency Services has offered to give 40% of the order for 10,000 e-vehicles to Mahindra & Mahindra provided it matches the former's bid.

“Following due procedure, we have written to Mahindra today, asking them to match Tatas' bid,“ Saurabh Kumar, managing director at Energy Efficiency Services (EESL), said on Tuesday. “If they agree, 40% of the order will go to Mahindra,“ he told ET.
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Old 4th October 2017, 15:07   #44
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

I am actually happy that the balance 40% is going to M&M. They have been building electric cars for years and are now an expert in this field.
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Old 4th October 2017, 18:47   #45
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Default Re: Tata Motors gets government order for 10,000 Electric Vehicles (beating Mahindra & Nissan)!

This is a great start, but a range of 100kms is a tad too less. Say, if Nitin Gadkari starts in an electric Tigor from his office at Ministry of Road Transport New Delhi to inaugurate Auto Expo 2018 at Greater Noida (Pari Chowk for convenience), he will barely make it back with just 15kms of charge left or maybe that too will get consumed in NCR traffic by the AC. He may as well need to change cars midway or use 2 cars - one for each direction! (assuming no charging infra midway)
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