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Old 4th October 2017, 11:12   #76
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Before raising allegations its important to do some ground work.
Yes its based on Duster platform rather than Clio platform, which was longer, expensive and was not made for powertrains available in Indian sub continent.
All dies and tools for Captur were imported from Russia. So entirety of BIW is same as worldwide
Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.
That's called cost effectiveness.
It is not at all about the product. It's about the deceit in trying to convince people that "This" one is same as the "other" one. Kindly refer few posts back where it has been beautifully explained with the analogy of a watch.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:23   #77
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.
Why is this useless and insensitive? What Renault have done is unethical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Renault is World's biggest French manufacturer, Largest Alliance car maker in the world with Nissan.
So what? Its irrelevant to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Before raising allegations its important to do some ground work.
Yes its based on Duster platform rather than Clio platform, which was longer, expensive and was not made for powertrains available in Indian sub continent.
The clio platform is superior to the one that underpins Duster. Clio is from Renault and Duster is from Dacia. Actually the Captur based on Clio is not longer, it is shorter.

Check the below post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Here is difference between the 2 cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
All dies and tools for Captur were imported from Russia. So entirety of BIW is same as worldwide.
Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.
That's called cost effectiveness.
Using the dies of the Euro spec Captur is not wrong. Since they have used it on the duster platform, its nothing but a Duster in different clothes, but to claim it to be the Euro spec Captur is F-R-A-U-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is really disgusting to see such posts being entertained.
I am one privileged person to have driven the Clio based Kaptur, which wasn't spacious in any terms and the Indian Captur has been made to meet Indian customers demands.
In the Ad, They have shown the accolades received by the Clio based superior CAPTUR and marketing the CAPTUR based on the Duster in India.
Why is it so difficult for you to understand?
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:29   #78
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.

I am really disheartened to see such posts here.
I request Moderators please do look into the facts and figures before alleging a Huge Organization of being con.
Ouch! That hurt. But full respect to your opinion. However one question? Only one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Yes its based on Duster platform rather than Clio platform, which was longer, expensive and was not made for powertrains available in Indian sub continent.

All dies and tools for Captur were imported from Russia. So entirety of BIW is same as worldwide
Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.
That's called cost effectiveness.
For someone who is asking people to look into facts and figures - Here are the dimensions and the engine options. Courtesy this post - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post4280423 (The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer)

Name:  Captur vs Kaptur1.jpg
Views: 2005
Size:  118.0 KB

The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer-screenshot_2017100411133507.png

Clio based European Captur is shorter, but more expensive. Captur retails at almost twice the prices as Duster in Europe. And uses the 1.5 Diesel in Europe as well. Longer and not compatible with engine options, did you say?

Duster platform into the monoconque of the actual Captur? Monocoque itself is the platform buddy. There is no seperate platform and body structure in such cars. Duster platform in essence means that the parts used in the car are mostly shared with Duster - not that the lower part of the car is taken out from Duster and upper half from Captur. Even that wouldn't be true unless Captur has grown up over the years.

Anyways, that's the product side - and for the sake of Renault - I hope it makes the product cost effective.

But does that justify using the awards and recognition received by the European Captur in the Indian market? I doubt even Renault doesn't agree with you - because the video has been taken down.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:29   #79
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

I guess somebody in the Renault marketing team is going to get fired for this. The ad has done incalculable damage to what may have been a good product for the indian market. I wish Renault had saved the big bucks they spend on the Ranbir ad and their marketing campaign and used that to price the car aggressively.

For most Indian middle class families, A vehicle is a big part of their net asset value. There is something called Endowment effect (you look at the positives of the vehicle that you own) and the best way to get this is to have an extremely aggressive opening price and try to get as many advocates/owners for your product.

Note that we don't have a vehicle with decent power and driver involvement which is abuse friendly, looks goods and has good features/reasonable cabin quality in the 10-15 lakh ex-showroom range. You have the Jeep Compass but it's much more expensive for comparable variants.

Also Note that a 4 star NCAP rating itself is not bad. For eg - Creta has a 4 star rating. The marketing team probably took the car buying public in India for granted and went ahead with this.

It will be interesting to see how Renault reacts. I hope they have the guts to take responsibility for this and apologize for the misleading ad.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:31   #80
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Saw a couple of video reviews of the Captur on Youtube by some of the leading auto portals. Everyone has good reviews and don't talk about the safety aspect, NCAP ratings, etc. Tough to say who is giving an honest review these days
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:32   #81
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.
Others have already replied so let me restrict myself to your comments regarding the forum.
Not only is this thread NOT "useless" or "insensitive", I would say it's threads like these that reflect perfectly Team BHP's commitment to the car-loving and owner community. Never mind if this mean upsetting a few automakers in the bargain. Remember- we do not depend upon them for their marketing dollars, and this is what separates us from the rest of the pack.

Quote:
Renault is World's biggest French manufacturer, Largest Aliiance car maker in the world with Nissan.
So what?

Quote:
Before raising allegations its important to do some ground work.
Yes its based on Duster platform rather than Clio platform, which was longer, expensive and was not made for powertrains available in Indian sub continent.
All dies and tools for Captur were imported from Russia. So entirety of BIW is same as worldwide
Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.
That's called cost effectiveness.
All very commendable I'm sure but it doesn't justify passing off the Indian Kaptur as the Euro-spec Captur and posting a long list of "accolades" awarded to a different car, hoping cynically that customers get fooled by the similar name. It's pathetic.

Quote:
This is really disgusting to see such posts being entertained.
(...)
I am really disheartened to see such posts here.
I request Moderators please do look into the facts and figures before alleging a Huge Organization of being con.
Bro, have you even READ the thread?
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:42   #82
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Others have already replied so let me restrict myself to your comments regarding the forum.
Bro, have you even READ the thread?
Thanks. I take my words on the Moderators back.
May be I was being blind in supporting them.
But my point was simple, lets not ruin a product before its arrival.

I agree to whatever advantages the Clio based Kaptur has in terms of being a well engineered product, but the efforts Indian engineers have put shouldn't go just waste as well.

The response of the Renault marketing team was also surprising.
May be they made a fool of themselves, and left some fans disappointed.

Last edited by Sudeep_Kimster : 4th October 2017 at 11:44. Reason: lost a point
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:43   #83
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.
Renault is World's biggest French manufacturer, Largest Aliiance car maker in the world with Nissan.
Before raising allegations its important to do some ground work.


This is really disgusting to see such posts being entertained.
I am one privileged person to have driven the Clio based Kaptur, which wasn't spacious in any terms and the Indian Captur has been made to meet Indian customers demands.

I am really disheartened to see such posts here.
I request Moderators please do look into the facts and figures before alleging a Huge Organization of being con.
A few questions:
1) How did this car sold in Russia (and soon in India) received all those automobile awards from UK and other European countries
2) How is this a global cross-over which made Mr. Ranbir Kapoor go wow during his European travels?
3) And… If its all good, why did world’s biggest French manufacturer take out the video?

Emotions and love for the brand is well-taken, but you need to be factual as well. And don’t lose heart, sometimes huge organizations can do something as silly as this.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:43   #84
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.
Renault is World's biggest French manufacturer, Largest Alliance car maker in the world with Nissan.

Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.

This is really disgusting to see such posts being entertained. I am one privileged person to have driven the Clio based Kaptur, which wasn't spacious in any terms and the Indian Captur has been made to meet Indian customers demands.

I am really disheartened to see such posts here.
Thanks for sharing your views, someone called us keyboard warriors a couple of weeks back. Please refer to the reviews available on Youtube to know how spacious is the Indianised Captur from Clio based Captur. The fact that Renault has removed some of the videos is a pointer to their fraudulent claims.

Last edited by deehunk : 4th October 2017 at 11:46.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:44   #85
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

This is so unfortunate. An all out, no holds barred, smart-alec marketing effort has backfired and undermined the massive effort put in by engineers, both Indian and French, in developing the Captur for India. As pointed by Sudeep_Kimster, its not an easy task to marry the body and platform of two different cars. It speaks volumes of the how auto R&D in India has grown over the years. I feel for the engineers who must be disheartened reading the words 'cheaters' and 'con men' for the all the hours of efforts they have put in. Bear in mind, a lot of these engineers are passionate individuals and petrol-heads and emotionally attach themselves to the vehicles they work on. I clearly recall speaking to an engineer who worked on developing the Evalia for India (despite knowing it would fail but not so grandly) and held an un-extinguishable grudge against the Nissan India management for screwing up product planning, positioning etc. I reckon right now there must be some serious bad blood between Marketing and Engineering divisions at Renault.

Nevertheless, all said and done, this IS a misleading marketing campaign. Renault is trying to sell us a Duster-Captur by highlighting the accolades for Clio-Captur. On the other hand, if the platform was same but the car had fewer features and a de-tuned engine, I suppose there wouldn't be a hue and cry. But this is after all a different vehicle. This is plain wrong.

I believe that Renault has a major PR effort lined up to recover from this goof-up.
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:49   #86
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Renault is a very unethical company and have taken Indians for granted.

Duster 110 HP injector issue : No recall!!

Kwid : The first version had unstable body shell. Renault came up with 2 more versions later.

Fuel System issue in Kwid : Renault did recall the cars. This happened few days after I posted about this on Team BHP

And now Renault was on a mission to fool Indian customers. Thanks to Crazy Driver and Team BHP.. Renault has not succeeded this time
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:53   #87
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
This is the most useless thread I have seen in Tbhp for a long long time, rather the first insensitive one.

I request Moderators please do look into the facts and figures before alleging a Huge Organization of being con.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post

I agree to whatever advantages the Clio based Kaptur has in terms of being a well engineered product, but the efforts Indian engineers have put shouldn't go just waste as well.

The response of the Renault marketing team was also surprising.
May be they made a fool of themselves, and left some fans disappointed.
You still dont get the bigger picture here, No one is doubting our Indian engineers! I am sure they have done a terrific job on the car.
We have some of the best and brightest working all over the world.

What we are questing is the marketing Department which is trying to pass this car off as something which it is NOT!


Please read this -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post4280578 (The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer)
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Old 4th October 2017, 11:56   #88
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Thanks. I take my words on the Moderators back.
May be I was being blind in supporting them.
But my point was simple, lets not ruin a product before its arrival.

I agree to whatever advantages the Clio based Kaptur has in terms of being a well engineered product, but the efforts Indian engineers have put shouldn't go just waste as well.

The response of the Renault marketing team was also surprising.
May be they made a fool of themselves, and left some fans disappointed.
So, Indian engineers also participated in creating the Captur shell over the Duster platform ? I thought it was already done for the Russian market and was also sold in Brazil with the same name as India. Did they dilute something
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:05   #89
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
Indian engineers have done a great job integrating the Duster platform into the Monocoque of actual Captur.
That's called cost effectiveness.
Why did the platform need integrating? The Kaptur sold in developing countries Russia and Brazil is based on the Duster. The Kaptur was developed as a lifestyle version of the Duster. There has been no new integration for India.

Only thing for India is that it's loaded with all features Renault could add to it.

Now they are using the Captur name to fool the public into thinking they are offering the same european Captur based on Clio.

I think you have some facts wrong. The Kaptur is a monocoque and so is the Duster.
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:10   #90
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudeep_Kimster View Post
But my point was simple, lets not ruin a product before its arrival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityslicker86 View Post
I feel for the engineers who must be disheartened ...

I reckon right now there must be some serious bad blood between Marketing and Engineering divisions at Renault...
Qouting GTO from the Compass thread -

Quote:
They say in the auto industry, "there is no problem that a good car cannot solve" (for the manufacturer). As I'd posted in the Compass' launch thread, we should update that saying to "there is no problem that a good SUV cannot solve"! How did Renault first taste success in India? The Duster. Which Ford is the best selling, despite its age? Which Ford had l-o-n-g waiting periods? The EcoSport. Which other Ford sells impressively for its segment? The Endeavour. What was Mahindra's blockbuster product? The XUV500. Did anyone imagine a 15 - 20 lakh Mahindra ever selling? I can give many more examples.
If I may add my own version of it - there is no problem that a good SUV at the right price cannot solve. Even companies having big time image issues (Like TATA and FCA) have created new identities for themselves with their SUVs. Renault is in a much better position.

There is no irreparable damage done here. All they need to do - is to be honest about the product and price it right. Duster is still a competent platform for the Indian market - it drives and rides beautifully. What it is not - is premium!

I believe the marketing department had to project the Captur as a global car to justify the premium positioning over the Duster - which in itself is considered to be priced on the higher side. The marketing was purely based on premiumness, customization options, global flavour etc which was a bubble waiting to burst. Only this strategy has backfired. Let them launch it as a premium product, but that should be based on honest claims. Success depends on whether that positioning and price is acceptable to the market.

But as many members have noted in the Captur launch thread - this car can actually find a good customer base - at the right prices. Why is the right price so important? Because of this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Eddy & Omkar are out driving the Captur. Based on initial impressions, it's got the looks, ride quality etc. Similar to how the Duster was at the time of its launch.

However, the interiors are a big letdown for the segment. Ergonomic issues & lack of attention to detail too. Even the Creta (which has been around for 2+ years) has a nicer cabin. Considering that it's going to be premium priced, the Captur has got really tough days ahead.

Am surprised they're launching a car with such interiors in 2017. Even Tata & Fiat (Compass) have gotten the interior design & quality bang-on now!!!
Contrary to your belief - I believe we might actually be helping them, if it makes them wake up from this premium dream they are living - and see the market reality. Hope it has become a discussion point now. Ball is in their court now, and it's all upto them.

Both the engineering and marketing teams are not going to taste success unless they price it honest for what it is.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 4th October 2017 at 12:21.
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