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Old 4th October 2017, 12:58   #106
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

I hope Renault issues an explanation or an apology for this blatant marketing. It clearly shows lack of creativity on how to market this product. Let us spare Engineers out of this.

Clearly, the ad would have been a hit with Team BHP too had they glorified the USP (ride quality and powertrain) of the Duster and added that it is married with European design of a crossover. That would be very honest and premium take on the Captur. Creatively they could have even added awards of the Duster (Globally or even in India) in their validation for the car. Instead they decided to hang on the glory of a totally different car.

This raises the new question of branding. Should different models be allowed to have the same name across continent when they are engineered totally differently? This would keep such half baked marketing departments at bay in trying to use the glory of a mere name.

Last edited by vivee90 : 4th October 2017 at 13:03. Reason: Improving.
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:03   #107
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

TAKE A BOW T-BHP.COM and GTO FOR YOUR GUTS!

No commercial media will publish this! T-BHP.COM TAKE A BOW AGAIN.

Renault - Shame on you! Avid and keen reader of Automobile news, myself couldn't differentiate this and imagine those ordinary people who just buy looking at the car! They are cheated for life for putting their life long earnings on your product! What a way to do a business! I would rather not do this business at all. Need apology from Renault guys and until that lets publicize this thread. Hopefully the Media/Advert. watchdogs do something about it as well.

Last but not least, thumbs up to you CrazyDriver for your sharp eyes!

Last edited by sgmuser : 4th October 2017 at 13:05. Reason: Typo
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:04   #108
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketscience View Post
I mean many cars are here have much less structral intergrity and strength of steel as their international versions, they mostly miss out on most of the features, they feature older and inferior engines as car compared to the international versions so basically they are just clones of the car they are based upon which happen to just look like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by i74js View Post
Slightly OT: but previous gen i20 use to boast about 5 Star Safety on all trims. I can only assume the top trim with 6 airbags and rear discs to be close to 5 star not the rest of the trims.

We are a second grade market for most of the manufacturers just that we have been classified as "developing markets" !
Guys, i think the thread moved its focus to the structural rigidity and NCAP ratings of the Euro spec car Kaptur Vs Russia Spec car Captur. But what originally started this discussion was this image from the ad.
The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer-screenshot_2017100222224576.jpg

What we felt as inappropriate was attaching the claims of a totally different car to the Indian car. It is like someone renaming a lower spec car like Kwid, changing the stickering to Duster and selling it as Duster in another market and claiming it to be Indian Car of the year.
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:10   #109
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I'm a little confused.

Given that the Duster-based Kaptur (or B0 platform version, in Renault nomenclature) has been in production in Russia since April last year (which is well over a year and half ago) exactly what efforts did the Indian engineers have to put in (pun not intended) to "marry the body and platform" of the B platform European version with the Duster?

Apart from the fact that there is no separate body and platform in monocoques, which makes the whole alleged development by Indian engineers quite redundant.
You are right Steeroid, I for a moment forgot that the Duster based Captur is already sold in Russia, and also that this is a Monocoque. My mistake. (However, for all my lack of technical expertise, I'm sure this wasn't an easy-peasy job of copy paste into India.)

This Monocoque was probably developed afresh somewhere at some point. Also, the Indian R&D unit is a global shared engineering centre of Renault Nissan alliance. There are about 3500-4000 engineers working there on various Indian and global projects. I've met engineers in Chennai who were working on the Juke. So its hard to say where all the Duster-Captur was developed and who worked on what. I assume engineers from low-cost locations (Probably India, Romania, Russia etc) did to keep the project cost down. Secondly, I suppose Renault is not assembling a CKD from Russia (correct me if I am wrong), so some engineering effort must have gone in preparing it for manufacturing and sales in India.

The larger point is, RN Alliance engineers worked hard to bring it to India, and by now must be aware of how Marketing slipped and brought bad repute to the company and the car.
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:19   #110
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Looks like Even in their Video they have used 2 different cars!

The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer-cap1.png



And then in another frame
The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer-cap2.jpg
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:44   #111
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Renault is a very unethical company and have taken Indians for granted.

Duster 110 HP injector issue

Kwid :

Fuel System issue in Kwid :
To add to the list - smaller airbags in Indian Duster that do not cover the entire head.

It's not wrong for a manufacturer to cut costs but an airbag is assumed to do a certain crucial job. All we talk about is the number of airbags and never their quality because a buyer has no chance to test them before making a purchase.

But selling airbags that do not serve their very purpose is just cheating. Tataka was forced to wind up operations after their airbags were found faulty. But Renault did not even issue an explanation over this fiasco.
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:46   #112
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Hats off to such a great success in exposing that might be one of the biggest automobile scams next to VW diesel gate. Renault is no more in the minds of petrol heads I recur.
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:56   #113
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Barring different platform and size do we know what are the other differences? I casually looked at interiors and both appear almost similar (though I don't know the quality of materials used). Being a newer platform I believe Captur should be more lighter and stiffer making the car safer overall and also expect better driving dynamics.

Renault has messed up big time comparing two different cars, instead they could have just highlighted the positives of Indian Kaptur. That said many people here seem to be bashing India based Captur which I feel is not justified given that car is yet to be launched in India.

Interiors of European Captur
The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian customer-europe.jpg

Interiors of Indian Captur
Name:  India.jpg
Views: 2833
Size:  46.6 KB

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th October 2017 at 12:07. Reason: Post edited. Please use spaces after punctuation marks. Thanks!
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Old 4th October 2017, 13:59   #114
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

No words to express the disgust at how low these guys have stooped. Added a link to this thread on the Captur Wiki page here

Not sure if its done the way it should be. Anyone please pitch in and correct it if possible

Last edited by vinayrathore : 4th October 2017 at 13:59. Reason: typo
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:04   #115
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

For me, Renault has a serious management/culture issue with its Indian operations. It has been going on consistently for the last couple of years - from giving the Kwid smaller airbags to strengthening only the driver's side since that's the side that gets tested in crash tests and now this. This is exactly the sort of thing that is influenced by the values of the guys at the very top.

Shame, because the cars are actually nice overall packages but this kind of corporate attitude would make me very nervous about putting money down.
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:08   #116
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

What a con-job and blatant disregard to ethics. Glad that this got picked up and now future buyers would be aware of the lie that they were going to purchase.

Is there anyway we can work SEO for this thread? I tried searching for Renault Captur India on google and all the pages which appear are related to drives and good 3.5-4 ratings (i am without actual test-drives) by other websites. Only if you search for Renault Captur India advertisement, this page shown up.

Hope that someone from the Renault HO pulls up the mastermind behind this con job.
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:14   #117
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Great spot by Team BHP. However, I do feel that some of our fellow BHPians have confused two issues:
1) Is it okay for a manufacturer to sell different cars in different markets under the same brand name? Or does that constitute inappropriate passing off
2) Is it okay to use awards that one product has one while marketing another product, without clarifying that the awards belong to a different product?

On 2, the answer is pretty clear. You can't pass sell a product by claiming that it won awards that a different product won were won by it. The Renault ad did that - which was unambiguously wrong. It may have been ok to reference the awards as awards won by Renault as manufacturer, but not as awards won by the Indian Captur as a product.

On 1 as well, in my view, the answer is clear- even if it is different from the views of several BHPians. Manufacturers sell different products in different markets under the same brand all the time. Examples include the Indian vs European Rapid from Skoda, the European vs US VW Passat, the use of the Ford Fusion name for very different cars in different markets (the US Fusion is a mid size car called the Mondeo in Europe, while the European Fusion was a hatchback on stilts), and several other similar examples. Brands are a manufacturer's property and they can do what they want with them.

I also don't think this is cheating - someone who wants to buy the Captur would test drive it and buy it if she likes it. Most Indians have not heard of the European Captur - all they would care about is that this is a nice looking SUV. People usually don't know or care if a product is moncoque or body on frame - look at the number of folks who get shocked that a small modern monocoque like the Tiguan is as expensive as a lumbering body on a pick up like the Fortuner.

I have a strong objection to manufacturers downsizing airbags or removing structural safety parts - but even that can only be dealt with through regulation.

So well spotted but the ad is withdrawn and now it's time to consider the Indian Captur on its merits (or lack thereof)
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:36   #118
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

I won't congratulate Team-BHP for the stand taken by them. I won't ask them to take a bow. I won't do any such thing. Why ? Because I expect them to be neutral, unbiased & unprejudiced. That's the only reason I'm a proud member of this forum. Take the honesty, integrity & fairness out of Team-BHP & you will be left with a forum which is similar to the run of the mill media outlets & blogs that claim to be the fastest in their news & reviews. Time & again this forum has shown that it doesn't back down from picking a fight for consumers, no matter how big the adversary is. Time & again it hasn't shied away from being the David to the Automobile Goliaths in helping it's members & general public in defeating the large soulless corporations. I won't give previous examples as everyone fondly remembers them.

What I will say to the numerous blogs & websites is that isn't it none of your concern when a manufacturer tries to pass off an inferior product with the exact name of superior product ? Won't your readers buy the inferior product just because you omitted to reveal the whole truth about the product in question ? Even though you are not lying like Renault, aren't you also culpable for suppression of facts ? Lastly who do you serve : your readers or your advertisers ? If the latter shouldn't you also proudly declare like The Times of India, that you aren't in News Business but in the Advertisement Business ?

Now coming to the cheating done by Renault. Since some are confused I'll try to briefly explain in simple tetms.

There's a car called Captur sold in Western Europe. Let's call it European Captur. It's 4.1 meters long, is based on Renault Clio platform & is a bit bigger than the Nexon. It's thoroughly engineered for European Markets & is quite expensive (as it should be).

There's a car that Dacia (a subsidiary of Renault) sells called Duster. It's based on a cheaper and different platform (M0) & is not as extensively engineered as the European Captur. We get the same in India.

Now Renault has taken the body shell & design of the European Captur & adapted it to be fitted to the monocoque & platform of the Duster. This is specifically for BRICS nations. So what you get is a Duster on the inside but the outer body shell or the Top Hat resembles the European Captur. Renault calls this new vehicle as Kaptur. This vehicle is as strong or weak as the Duster since the Top Hat doesn't contribute to the crash worthiness of a car. Let's call it BRICS Kaptur.

Since we are an Emerging Nation & as such the European Captur would have been a disaster in our market (close to ₹ 20 L for a Nexon type vehicle) Renault chose to bring the BRICS Kaptur to India. So far so good.

What Renault did upto this point was perfectly acceptable to anyone. Renault erred on 2 things next :

1. They renamed the BRICS Kaptur as Captur in India. But wasn't the European Captur called as Captur ? Yes it is. If anyone were to search for Captur they will find results of European Captur & be impressed with it's capabilities and how Renault is offering a superior product on the cheap. It's a clear bait & switch technique in action which is unethical but not illegal.

2. What Renault did next made them to cross the fine line between being unethical & being illegal and led to creation of this tgread. Renault went to town shouting from the rooftops that the European Captur which has been the most awarded & safest vehicle in Europe is in fact the same Captur that we are getting in India. They completely removed any mention of the BRICS Kaptur, which is in fact the vehicle we are getting in India. Even though Renault is selling the BRICS Kaptur in India, Renault has decided to market the European Captur instead of the BRICS Kaptur. Tells you how confident Renault is of it's product. A fit case of false & misleading advertising.

Now you decide if what Renault has done is Right or Wrong.

PS : Some members have compared this situation to Samsung using different chipsets for different markets. I would like to say that's a wrong assumption. Samsung is forced to use Qualcomm chipsets & modems in USA because of CDMA compatibility on Sprint & Verizon. Even then the Delta in performance between Exynos & Qualcomm chips is at best 5-8%. Both the phones cost the same to be manufactured & are sold at similar price points. Most mobile companies diversify in using different vendors due to uncertainty of production if a supplier is unable to meet their demand. The context is different than the Renault situation. A similar situation would if Apple were to market the iPhone 6 as the iPhone 8 in India since the former costs much less than iPhone 8 & offers much inferior performance than the latter.

PPS : I'm not associated with Renault, Apple or Samsung in any way. I'm only a proud Team-BHP member.
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:37   #119
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Considering the mad rush that other auto websites are always in to post about 'stickered variants' and 'new body colours', I'm surprised no one else has reported on this serious issue? Period.
Media investments are heavily dependent on what's the quality of reviews & opinions that come out. I won't be surprised if this doesn't go out anywhere except Team-BHP & a couple of small independent sites.

To BHPians .
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Old 4th October 2017, 14:59   #120
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Default Re: The Renault Captur's new ad is ethically wrong & deceiving! Blatantly fooling the Indian custome

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Originally Posted by rohansachar View Post
Media investments are heavily dependent on what's the quality of reviews & opinions that come out. I won't be surprised if this doesn't go out anywhere except Team-BHP & a couple of small independent sites.

To BHPians .
Wikipedia on Renault Captur lists the information being discussed on this thread as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Captur

As a recent Renault customer, I, as most of you here am very upset at their marketing strategy as well. I do hope they realise their blunder and issue a clarification/apology on this matter.
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