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Old 7th February 2018, 13:31   #16
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

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Originally Posted by Vishnuk View Post
So what should one do when he is exchanging his car for a new one at a company showroom? what if the showroom doesn't follow the rules & sells it off to someone without transferring it.

This kind of brings up a lot of questions and quite a lot of stress along with it.
Hi Vishnuk,
As you have mentioned regarding exchange at dealership, I want to tell you that these days companies are very strict regarding the exchange program offered by them. They ask for RC book of both the owners (seller and buyer) for the exchange bonus to be disbursed. So, the dealership doesnt have to take a pain as the fee is charged to the new owner and they already have people in RTO's to help them.


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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
When exchanging cars at a company owned used car dealer for a new car we expect them to be responsible and properly complete the transfer before handing over the car. But always it won't go as we expect it to be and I had a very bad experience with the Das Welt Auto (DWA) at Trivandrum when i exchanged the Swift for the Polo GT. Das Welt sold my swift to a 3rd party seller and they sold the swift to a buyer and the name change was not properly done, and i was getting overspeeding challans at my address while the car was being used by the new owner still in my name. I called DWA and asked them to pay the fines which they did not and i ended up getting few more challans in the meantime. Finally I called up the traffic police station and informed them, after that informed DWA about what I am going to do and the challans were paid promptly and the name change also promptly done. Did not expect a company owned used car dealership like DWA (VW used car dealer) to be so irresponsible like this.
Sorry to hear your incident but maybe now the companies have made strict rules regarding exchange.


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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
This is a missed opportunity to give a land mark judgement, there is no defined standard for a sale agreement when we sell/buy a used car. From my experience of selling 6 cars, I can say that a CC issued by the RTO is the only secure document in your hand. In fact when the buyer of my Rapid was involved in an accident, I used the CC to prove my innocence in the incident.
The transfer process is beneficial for both the parties as the seller can also file a police complaint telling that his car is stolen, that will lead to legal action on the buyer so he should also ensure tranfer of ownership at the earliest.
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Old 7th February 2018, 13:50   #17
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

Now backed by Supreme Court's verdict people who have bought the vehicle but not done the ownership transfer will never feel the need of ownership transfer at all. Afterall even if they cause the accident the liability will have to be borne by the registered owner.

As per this verdict, even collecting all the evidence of handover and photo/address will not help as long as the name change is not effected in records. The only safe way is for the seller to complete the RTO name change process and this will not work with showroom car exchanges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek19 View Post
The transfer process is beneficial for both the parties as the seller can also file a police complaint telling that his car is stolen, that will lead to legal action on the buyer so he should also ensure tranfer of ownership at the earliest.
The problem here is you can't fool the police and the authorities by reporting your vehicle stolen after selling it. Unless the police asks you to report it as such for them to impound the vehicle you can't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek19 View Post
Sorry to hear your incident but maybe now the companies have made strict rules regarding exchange.
I don't know, and so I would think not and be extra cautious next time.

Last edited by Sankar : 7th February 2018 at 13:54.
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Old 7th February 2018, 14:40   #18
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

The Supreme Court judgement puts unlimited liability on the previous owner. Unless the RTO rectifies and eases the transfer process, the new owner will never bother to effect the transfer as the liability will always lie with the original owner.

People will either stop selling the cars or ensure sale happens within the same RTO/state, ensuring that the second hand car market will tank.

Along with this judgement, SC should also direct the RTO to ensure that vehicle transfer process is put online and eased multi-fold.
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Old 7th February 2018, 14:43   #19
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

+1 to the points mentioned here. The ruling would have been practical if they had said that no benefits can be claimed by new owner if car has not been transferred after the sale.

Or better still, a national sold car registry where the seller and buyer sign-up to complete the sale. And an automated process to transfer the ownership.
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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Unless the RTO rectifies and eases the transfer process, the new owner will never bother to effect the transfer as the liability will always lie with the original owner.
Hardly ! The process is just not difficult. You have the list of required documents. All you do is submit it at the RTO, and the RTO will process it. If your documents are in order, then you dont even have to go back to check on the status. What more does one want ? Home service to collect documents ?

Last edited by condor : 7th February 2018 at 14:45.
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Old 7th February 2018, 14:57   #20
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

If car I sold to a dealer is not yet transferred to new buyer's name, can I file an FIR for theft against dealer, new owner? Because legally (as per honorable supreme court's judgment) car is still mine and is under unlawful possession by another party.

Can I legally sell car to another party till a buyer ensures that car is registered in his name?

If I am caught without proper papers of car ( RC book) I am supposed to be fined for that, in this case three-four parties did not bother to get car transferred to their name and evaded traffic police for a long duration.
If I were original party, I will file a case on all subsequent parties for unlawful possession of vehicle, fraud, theft and what not. Did the person (party D) here had a consent letter from party A to drive his vehicle?

I agree with GTO.
Additionally, Supreme Court has given a judgment which will open can of worms, wherein crooked dealers/sellers will enjoy and innocent buyers will suffer.

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Old 7th February 2018, 15:07   #21
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

We can debate whether this judgment is right or not right but effectively it screams:
'Do not hand over the vehicle to purchaser till RTO transfer is complete'
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Old 7th February 2018, 15:07   #22
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This bit sums up the court ruling:

Quote:
"A claimant for compensation ought not to be burdened with following a trail of successive transfers, which are not registered with the registering authority. To hold otherwise would be to defeat the statutory object and purpose of the Act."
It relieves the victim from the burden of running from pillar to post in identifying the owner of the vehicle which caused the mishap. IMHO, this ruling is well thought out as a person has to ensure that his/her name is changed in the RC if he/she is no longer the owner of that vehicle and got money after the sales.

Last edited by Turbopetrol : 7th February 2018 at 15:09.
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Old 7th February 2018, 15:14   #23
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

Sadly I feel injustice is being done. Once a seller has proof of sale and of financial transaction the onus should pass on to the buyer to register in his / her name.

If we buy a new car in the period till the car is registered and insured if something happens the Dealer does NOT take the liability once the car keys are handed over to us.
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Old 7th February 2018, 15:15   #24
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

A common sentiment through most reactions: don't handover the car till RC ownership change is complete.

As right as it sounds, how realistic is it?! Forget selling to dealers, it isn't practical even when you sell to an individual. The moment the car has been paid for, the buyer would want it yesterday. Our RTOs are not efficient enough to predict how soon this process will be complete. No one would want to pay for a car and still not be able to use it!

The process will simply break when you sell to a dealer; who wouldn't transfer until there's a buyer. That could take days or months.

Such issues don't make it to every citizen so awareness is suspect. But I wouldn't be surprised if the used car dealers find a way to pacify sellers.
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Old 7th February 2018, 15:28   #25
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

Last time RTO Thane took 2.5 months to complete ownership transfer to my name. In the meanwhile I had a small accident when I reversed into a pipe, but couldn't claim insurance as the insurance can't be transfered till RTO does the transfer.

Stupid judgement. They are not aware of the practicalities of used car sales.
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Old 7th February 2018, 15:50   #26
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

I think it is one thing if it places the burden of proof on the person registered at RTO to prove that he has in fact transferred ownership and possession and if he does prove it the subsequent owner will be liable.

But if regardless of above liability is pegged to the registered person it'll be very stupid and impractical.

I don't know how one is to operate the entire organised second hand car business if this were the case. Cars are not meant to be transferred from owner to dealer to new owner.
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Old 7th February 2018, 16:10   #27
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In my understanding, the rules of transferring motor vehicles have always been there since long time, but once the number of vehicles increased exponentially and second hand vehicle market became huge, people might have started ignoring them and improvised the transfer procedures to speed up the transactions.

This ease of transaction (selling / exchanging a second hand vehicle) that we experience till now is what I would call pseudo and it is at the cost of not following the correct procedures. Anyways it has set wrong precedence and expectations to both buyers and sellers since long time.

Yes, I do understand that RTOs are not equipped to deal with the number of registrations in a timely manner due to the sheer volume of vehicles (and definitely need technology backing). But as long as the correct procedure is not being followed, there would be such judgments which would remind us that law will go as per the book, and not as per the perceived ease of vehicle transfer without following the rules.
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Old 7th February 2018, 16:37   #28
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

There is clearly a mismatch between ideal and practical scenarios. Court wants to have things done by the book, but if everything went by the book, I am sure the Hon'ble Judges would be running around puling their hair than sit comfortably passing the judgements.

If one wants foolproof transaction, it is safe to finalise the buyer, transfer the vehicle in his name and only then handover the key. Everyone is on the correct side of law in then. This is cumbersome no doubt but law-abiding. I am sure we are careful to not take delivery of the vehicle till it is registered in our name, something that even dealer insists. In fact, dealer is happy to let go of the business if customer insists to take delivery before registration is complete. I guess, same way, we need to reduce our risk when selling our vehicles.

What I don't understand in all this what happens to car exchanges at showrooms? There is no way dealer will accept registering car in his name and if dealer has to find a buyer for the car being exchanged, he will have shutdown showroom and go around hunting for buyers. For such cases, is there a way wherein registration of vehicle can be cancelled and vehicle sits with dealer with no current owner? This can possibly be the only solution to the problem.
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Old 7th February 2018, 16:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
.. For such cases, is there a way wherein registration of vehicle can be cancelled and vehicle sits with dealer with no current owner? This can possibly be the only solution to the problem.
In this case, its all good if the vehicle sits in the parking as expected. If the dealer decides to give the vehicle to his nephew for a spin and then it gets in any mishap, who would pay for such losses would be the question. I guess it should be temporarily registered to the dealer.

Last edited by Turbopetrol : 7th February 2018 at 16:56.
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Old 7th February 2018, 17:14   #30
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Default Re: Supreme Court: Change records after car sale or pay for mishaps

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
This is an incredibly stupid judgement. How can any seller ensure with 100% guarantee that the buyer will take care of the transfer? What if he's from another city? Am I going to follow him there? What if it's a car dealer?

As long as a car owner has sufficient proof that he has sold the car (delivery note, receipt etc.), that should suffice. I even took a video of the time that I sold my Civic on the building's CCTV camera .

Making a video is a good idea , but in our country the burden lies upon us to prove innocence. So in addition to keeping documents like buyers adhaar number copy, we should use "Vahan" the national register to check whether the vehicle has been transferred or not.

I find four vehicles in my name today. Three accounted and one had gone to the kabadiwala and i have those papers.

So all those who have sold their vehicles enter the registered number of the sold vehicle in Vahan website/App and check who is shown as the current owner to be safe.
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