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Old 22nd January 2007, 01:34   #16
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ULSD, or ultra low sulpher diesel is good for the environment but bad for the engine, due to which ULSD cars have to go for higher grade engine(AP CJ-4 etc.,) oils. Castrol recently introduced them and they cost more than regular engine oils.
Infact fuel systems of older cars may leak, but thats for rare cases.
Excuse of ULSD not being available is really lame, as higher sulpher content will lead to better lubrication
The only downside is that the exaust management systems of ULSD cars for low emissions will get damaged if LSD or HSD is given to them.
What honda meant is adulteration, but the real reason is lack of drive. They sell enough small cars, and since they can't bring in diesel engines at a competitive price, they want to give excuses.
As for fuel quality, the adulteration is done using Naptha(not too sure about that thought) and kerosene, and heavily adulterated fuel can play havoc with common rail systems, but that has not stopped others from introducing crdi systems.
If mercedes can sell diesels here, this "poor diesel quality" is a "poor excuse".

Last edited by tsk1979 : 22nd January 2007 at 01:40.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 01:42   #17
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This remind's me of the time's when Maruti & Daewoo were urging the Indian government to withdraw subsidy on diesel!

A lame excuse too,the bottom line was even they did not have a competent answer to thier well established diesel rivals,Maruti have jumped into they fray realising discretion is the better part of the valour(even if it is borrowed),

And now honourable honda-sans want to know(or do not know) wether there are any more....people left who will buy such line's when explained with a straight face.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 02:03   #18
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Naw, it's not that they can't introduce their diesels at a competitive price. Considering the ridiculous premium we pay for the badge, what a coupla lakhs extra for a nice common-rail?

But then who will buy the petrol? I mean if you want an econobox like the City, you'll love a City diesel. If you want Skoda mileage with Civic tech, you'll love a Civic diesel. And if you want an SUV, you'll love a CRV diesel.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 02:28   #19
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Agree with most people here Why should Honda introduce a diesel in india when they can sell as many Petrols as they can make?

That just about sums up the Diesel approach for Honda in India. But IMHO if they can introduce a Civic Diesel at about 12.5L (OTR, Delhi) then the Octavia might as well get phased out right now

Just for clarification not a fan of Honda's policies in India by any measure.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 02:40   #20
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First of all you dont need ULSD for Euro 3.

Diesel engines are much more robust than petrol. When any diesel is introduced in India the power is never dropped as opposed to petrol.

Gen2 common rail engines from Merc and Hyundai are already running around fine.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 02:59   #21
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"Honda classifies Indian diesel as not refined enough."

Old Hindi saying:
Naachne na aaye, aangan tedha.

English translation:
Don't know dance, floor bent.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 09:10   #22
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This actually shows the negative attitude of Honda to Indian consumers. They've exploited Indian people very well with high priced cars which are really not worth the price. Now they don't want to lose that high priced brand image for a cheaper fuel like Diesel.

Hyundai, Ford, Maruti, GM etc are much better than Honda as a company owing to their customer commitment.

Customer is the king not the 'H' badge....
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Old 22nd January 2007, 10:33   #23
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Well, if Mercedes / BMW / Toyota can sell their diesels in India without complaining about the fuel quality, then why is Honda whining about the quality?

Or do they believe that their diesel powerplants are either more fragile. Or superior to them?
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Old 22nd January 2007, 10:42   #24
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My two cents are:

Diesel Honda CRV's are made in the UK hence too expensive to ship over. Volumes in Asia too little to jusify tooling up a Jap factory. If local assembly happens then we could see some traction on this.

Diesel Accords/ Civics -only Euro Civics and Euro Accords get this engine, not the US Accord variant and the Civic Saloon which we get her. Unless they do some development initiatives to actually test the diesel engine in these body shells, I cannot comment further.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 10:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul_intlad View Post
Dont want this to be a honda bashing thread.
Why not? We all know Honda is talking crap. Worse, it seems like Honda thinks that Indians are morons to believe the BS they are dishing out. Reminds me of the time when Hyundai and Daewoo were selling MPFI cars and Maruti had made a similar excuse that Indian petrol is not refined enough to launch MPFI technology. If GM or Ford or Hyundai had made that statement then we would have bashed them so why not Honda?

Well, Honda, we are getting arguably the worlds best diesel engine, the MJD/JTD here. Does anyone need to say anything more?
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Old 22nd January 2007, 11:43   #26
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Excuse by Honda is lame, but anyway whether to introduce diesel or not is a business decision of Honda. For whatever reasons, Honda is not ready to invest in diesel infrastructure in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
This actually shows the negative attitude of Honda to Indian consumers.
If Honda feels they can't make enough money out of diesel its upto them and their decision. I don't think there is any negative attitude towards anybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
They've exploited Indian people very well with high priced cars which are really not worth the price. Now they don't want to lose that high priced brand image for a cheaper fuel like Diesel.
Indian consumers are extremely price conscious. A company can't sell overpriced products for long. Honda is selling its cars well for past many years. So the Indian car consumers find that Honda cars are worth it and hence buy them.
I dont think there is any relation between brand image & price of fuel (Mercs, with hight brand image, sell diesel cars in India).

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
Hyundai, Ford, Maruti, GM etc are much better than Honda as a company owing to their customer commitment.
Customer is the king not the 'H' badge....
In my city, there are 2 Honda showrooms. I would rate one of the showroom's customer service better than any of the mentioned companies.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 11:45   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
My two cents are:

Diesel Honda CRV's are made in the UK hence too expensive to ship over. Volumes in Asia too little to jusify tooling up a Jap factory. If local assembly happens then we could see some traction on this.

Diesel Accords/ Civics -only Euro Civics and Euro Accords get this engine, not the US Accord variant and the Civic Saloon which we get her. Unless they do some development initiatives to actually test the diesel engine in these body shells, I cannot comment further.
Agree with you on this Ajmat it seems none of the diesels (CR-V/Civic/Accord) are made in Asia. Honda had even in Europe very reluctantly introduced the diesel engine after it became apparent that diesel sales were going to touch huge numbers & they would lose too much sales.

I think they can make the same diesel engine in Thailand & then ship it to India like the others. But, with their sales already so high I don't think they see any need to do that at this point of time. But just imagine what a frenzy the consumers will go into if Honda comes out Diesel Civic/Accord.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 11:52   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
I think they can make the same diesel engine in Thailand & then ship it to India like the others. But, with their sales already so high I don't think they see any need to do that at this point of time. But just imagine what a frenzy the consumers will go into if Honda comes out Diesel Civic/Accord.
Ever seen a diesel car in an Asean country beyond taxi's ? Nope - they are looking at gas fuels. Not worth the investment to make diesels in thailand
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Old 22nd January 2007, 13:25   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Excuse by Honda is lame, but anyway whether to introduce diesel or not is a business decision of Honda. For whatever reasons, Honda is not ready to invest in diesel infrastructure in India.



If Honda feels they can't make enough money out of diesel its upto them and their decision. I don't think there is any negative attitude towards anybody.



Indian consumers are extremely price conscious. A company can't sell overpriced products for long. Honda is selling its cars well for past many years. So the Indian car consumers find that Honda cars are worth it and hence buy them.
I dont think there is any relation between brand image & price of fuel (Mercs, with hight brand image, sell diesel cars in India).



In my city, there are 2 Honda showrooms. I would rate one of the showroom's customer service better than any of the mentioned companies.
May be you're right but sorry cant accept unless Honda say some other reason for not bringing in Diesel engines here. For the moment I stick to my words.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 14:44   #30
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Why expect diesels from Honda. There are other vendors preparing for launching several diesel engines in india. People who want to buy diesels will buy from them. And when Honda has a compelling case they might come up with it.

Indeed the future is diesel because people who even buy the Mercs/BMW will want to reduce the running costs by using diesel for their cars! If there is an opportunity to save money let us all do it by burning diesel.

I dont have a diesel car yet! I would like to go for it when I buy my next car.
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