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Old 21st May 2007, 20:52   #211
aZa
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Vipul motors in Noida told me the waiting for LDi and VDi both were around 2 weeks. And for SX4 the waiting is minimum 1 month with minimum 1lakh downpayment
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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:15   #212
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Originally Posted by hmishra83 View Post
I went to take a look at the Swift Diesel in Delhi yesterday. Told there was a 1-1.5 month waiting on the VDi model and the LDi is available readily. No discounts/offers etc.

Anybody knows of a better deal in Delhi NCR?
Can you tell me which dealer in delhi is offering Ldi without any waiting peroid
thanks
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Old 23rd May 2007, 04:09   #213
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Originally Posted by wizardofid View Post
As I recall Maruti does not (yet) make the DDSi engine in India, though they may soon start to do so under licence.
Wizard : The Swift brochure says the diesel engine is made in Panesar plant. Check pls the swift diesel website and download the zipped brochure.

But the capacity is well below the demand and thats why SX4 is not getting its diesel pot that soon.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 12:21   #214
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The Swift brochure says the diesel engine is made in Panesar plant.
You meant Manesar plant.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 23:50   #215
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i asked mangalore dealer for SWIFT D , and he says , will be delivering the car in just 10 days.My bro intends to go for Base Ldi model.
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Old 24th May 2007, 11:03   #216
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Booked My Swift VDi with APRA Automobiles in Gurgaon. Dealer is saying that will deliver car in a month's time. I am already looking for tyre upgrades and other upgrades like headlights. Any suggestions.
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Old 24th May 2007, 11:08   #217
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Originally Posted by aZa View Post
Vipul motors in Noida told me the waiting for LDi and VDi both were around 2 weeks. And for SX4 the waiting is minimum 1 month with minimum 1lakh downpayment

APRA in gurgaon is booking SX4 for 50k booking amount.
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Old 24th May 2007, 12:20   #218
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Regarding short supply of Diesels, Is it not because Maruti cannot get all the engines to themselves. They have a quota in the total numbers.
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Old 29th May 2007, 10:27   #219
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Comon Rail Diesel engines are the engines of the future. If you drive one you would start loving it from Day 1. Diesel engines and parts are built sturdy as they would have to handle a compression twice that of petrol. Swift D does have a bit of engine noise most of it because of the Chain drive instead of Belt for Timing. Maruti has designed Swift D in such a way that it would need Minimum Maintainence and should have a life expectency of over 2,00,000 km. In US/Europe TDI cars are driven in excess of 5,00,000 miles (not KMs). I am sure with proper care and maintenance we in India can also achieve close to that.

Advantages of Diesel engines -

1. High Low end torque - This gives a great pick up and will not unnecessarily strain engines with heavy electrical load like AC used 100%. in Swift Diesel the only way you make out the AC is on is the cool and confortable cabin.
2. High durability of engines - Due to the robust construction
3. Longer continuous driving range - You can drive a diesel car for over 500 kms without a stop and the engine performance will not be affected. Try doing that on a petrol car.
4. High fuel efficiency for even short commutes. Most petrol engines have a low FE when the engine is cold and CRDIs have similar FE both for hot and cold conditions
5.Higher FE and cheaper fuel hence reduced TCO

Disadvantages
1. Heavier engine needs good suspension as well as handling might be a bit difficult than the pertrol counterpart
2. Slightly expensive servicing - oil rates for Diesel engine oil higher than petrol and Fuel filter changes
3. Tourbocharger failures - If not taken care of Turbocharger failures are high after 50000 KM. But with proper care you can last with a single TC for about 200000 kM.
4.Breaks and clutch wear - higher as Diesel would need more Gear changes within the city driving vis-a-vis petrol engine as well as the load on the breaks are higher due to heavier weight of the diesel engine.

With all the disadvantages I am still a FAN of Modern DIESEL cars.
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Old 8th June 2007, 20:03   #220
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
4.Breaks and clutch wear - higher as Diesel would need more Gear changes within the city driving vis-a-vis petrol engine
I am not able to understand this. Why does diesel require more gear shifts if the low end torque is better than petrol?
I have driven a Mahindra MM540 in second gear in heavy traffic conditions. I never felt the need to press the clutch at most times.
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Old 8th June 2007, 23:06   #221
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A drive in both Petrol and Diesel should be enough for most guys. The surge of the diesel at 2000 rpm is mighty addictive. That is what floored me.

Swift Petrol will give a mileage of 13-14 only to the light footed guys. My friend is only getting a mileage of 10 for his Vxi. I am sure the diesel will give 14-15 even for lead footed guys.
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Old 8th June 2007, 23:42   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Comon Rail Diesel engines are the engines of the future. If you drive one you would start loving it from Day 1. Diesel engines and parts are built sturdy as they would have to handle a compression twice that of petrol. Swift D does have a bit of engine noise most of it because of the Chain drive instead of Belt for Timing. Maruti has designed Swift D in such a way that it would need Minimum Maintainence and should have a life expectency of over 2,00,000 km. In US/Europe TDI cars are driven in excess of 5,00,000 miles (not KMs). I am sure with proper care and maintenance we in India can also achieve close to that.

Advantages of Diesel engines -

1. High Low end torque - This gives a great pick up and will not unnecessarily strain engines with heavy electrical load like AC used 100%. in Swift Diesel the only way you make out the AC is on is the cool and confortable cabin.
2. High durability of engines - Due to the robust construction
3. Longer continuous driving range - You can drive a diesel car for over 500 kms without a stop and the engine performance will not be affected. Try doing that on a petrol car.
4. High fuel efficiency for even short commutes. Most petrol engines have a low FE when the engine is cold and CRDIs have similar FE both for hot and cold conditions
5.Higher FE and cheaper fuel hence reduced TCO

Disadvantages
1. Heavier engine needs good suspension as well as handling might be a bit difficult than the pertrol counterpart
2. Slightly expensive servicing - oil rates for Diesel engine oil higher than petrol and Fuel filter changes
3. Tourbocharger failures - If not taken care of Turbocharger failures are high after 50000 KM. But with proper care you can last with a single TC for about 200000 kM.
4.Breaks and clutch wear - higher as Diesel would need more Gear changes within the city driving vis-a-vis petrol engine as well as the load on the breaks are higher due to heavier weight of the diesel engine.

With all the disadvantages I am still a FAN of Modern DIESEL cars.
Is this post in the wrong section?

I have driven 500kms continously on a Petrol (that too a very old petrol engine), so what issue are you talking about?

What about the never-ending pull that you get in a petrol in a single gear. I love to stay second to third gear in city all day in my car(S), no Diesel, modern or otherwise comes even close. Well if I start to get worried about Fuel costs, its a different issue. So far that has not been the case.
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Old 9th June 2007, 21:40   #223
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Here's a new member, taken delivery of my VDI on 25 May in Chennai.

Compared to the 2003 diesel Indica I drove for a few months before that, it is like upgrading from a bullock cart to a car!

These are my first two diesel cars. The Indica was a great disapointment; the Swift is ...just great!

The Indica totally lacked that low-revs pull that diesel engines are supposed to have (I've driven diesels which forgave a mistaken start in 3rd); you could stall it by turning on the AC --- almost.

The swift has it, and more. 1100D, you're petrol-thirsty 2nd and 3rd all day might just be 3rd and 4th in the diesel Swift! It rolls along with the RPM barely over 1,000, and will pick up from that even --- though I'm trying to be kinder than that to my new engine of course.

The only thing I'm not happy about (well... it isn't my favourite car for looks...) is the AC. It does not wholeheartedly cool unless on recycle, and the European design has not prioritised blowing cool air over the whole body. That's the only thing the Indica did better.

Other comments are that it is bad that they cut the price by cutting safety features (eg air bag) but perhaps that's a sad reflection on the buying habits of drivers in this country. Also it is just downright mean that you don't get a parcel shelf in the price!

I'm likely to be quite a low-mileage driver. I went for the diesel because I found the technology attractive. I went for the Swift because I guessed it to be the best of its size. Even though I hankered after a Civic (I drove a Rover 620, the British-built Honda Accord, in UK) or even an Accord, I am very happy with my new car
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Old 10th June 2007, 02:23   #224
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Quote:
Longer continuous driving range - You can drive a diesel car for over 500 kms without a stop and the engine performance will not be affected. Try doing that on a petrol car.
I think america would come to a standstill if this were true.

The biggest disadvantage of modern diesels is their fragility in terms of fuel quality.The older DI engines where much better of in this regard.

Last edited by rahul_intlad : 10th June 2007 at 02:28.
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Old 17th August 2007, 06:52   #225
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Originally Posted by Tech View Post
Agreed. But money which is paid for Petrol goes away to Bank. What are you left with? EMIs are going out each month also. Whether you pay to Petrol Pumps or to Banks, you are left with nothing.

Also note that I compared the lowest variant of Petrol i.e. Lxi to Vdi. You can assume a marginally lesser time to break even if you compared Petrol Vxi to Petrol Vdi.

7.63359 yrs to break even to be precise on the basis of Delhi's lower normal petrol costs of Rs. 44.5. For rest of India, it takes 5.3114 years to break even when petrol costs Rs. 52. OK I am now also taking a higher average FE of Swift Diesel at 19 kmpl. and Swift Petrol's at 13 kmpl.

Extra EMI for Diesel is taken care of by Fuel Savings is only a gimmick. Please see below chart to see that your actual monthly outflow is almost same. So even if it is outstation weekends you end up spending the same amount more or less.

Even if you have many weekends and you clock 25000 km per year (2083 km per month), then if Petrol costs 52 and Diesel costs 32, even then it will take 3.735 years to break even using the calculations logic shown below.

What if you decide not to use the car ? Then all the extra money spent goes waste ! And what if tomorrow the Diesel FE drops to 13-14 in city? What if the quiet diesel engine becomes noisier? Like the Accent Crdi or maybe even more? I assumed only marginal Diesel maintenance costs of Rs. 30000 more. What if Maruti charges hell lot for fixing this awarded engine? Hope it never happens.





ImageShack - Hosting :: swiftownershipcostsfo8.jpg
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Whew !!! Those calculations were hard work. There may be suggestions to these calculations, but more or less these are quite close to real life situation. If you think calculations are not correct anywhere, please let me know. I ignored some points as well like finance opportunity costs because you could have invested the amount in shares or mutual funds.

By the way I cancelled Maruti Swift VDI booking and saved hard earned money owing partly to huge costs and rising price increases as well as huge waiting periods (Is Maruti crazy?) . It is not cost effective for me for my kind of running. Petrol is the way for me. Smooth , Quiet and Dream like. Not torquier....

Probably we shall see many Diesel Swift Taxis in near future, because you need more than 30000 km per year clocking to make sense. What's going to happen in future???

Maruti is taking advantage because there is no market player in this segment. That's it. Bad pricing Maruti!!! Add to that long waiting periods and increase in prices ??? I'm no fool. Customer is no fool. Maruti just needs some competition. Then they will come with discounts, like their old marketing tactics. Seems like lessons have still not been learnt from Baleno. I say it even though I like Maruti. And that's another unbiased view from Tech !

Have not gone thru the entire thread but came across this post thru a cross reference.

What IMO you should also factor in is that when you sell the diesel you will recover atleast 50% of the extra that you have paid over the petrol model. Then your cost of ownership will be lower. Right? or is there a flaw in my argument?
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