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Old 26th January 2007, 15:35   #106
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Below are the updated calculations for a high usage of around 20000 km per yr -


Last edited by Tech : 26th January 2007 at 15:37.
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Old 26th January 2007, 16:05   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
We are not talking about discounts here, but the real price difference of around 80K.
In Dec 07 even swift diesel will be sold for a discount, as it is with any car.
So if we assume that the cost of maintainance of diesel is 20K more than petrol(which is again heresay) then the total cost to recover is around 100,000.
50,000kms is all that is needed.
IF somebody is doing this in 2-3 years it makes a lot of sense.
@tsk - What it does matter is, how much is the difference at the time of buying, irrespective of the sticker price or discount, as it goes out of ones packet. For a buyer like me, if it requires to make call at this time, the difference is still more than a lakh. Thus the calculation comes out. In Dec 07, the actual price of Swift petrol will also be reduced as of Diesel, otherwise Maruti can't sell the Swift petrol.

@Tech- Your calculations are on dot, however what is that extra maintainance cost of 15,000 on diesel, I understand that insurance can cost 3-4K more for 3-4 years and two more service per year (assuming service interval of 5K kms), but does not add upto 15,000 PM. Agreed "Swift Petrol is a better choice basis needs of normal usage" if it less than 2k kms pa.

regards
-manju
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Old 26th January 2007, 16:37   #108
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The monthly out of pocket cost for Petrol is Rs. 4153 more than diesel. The cost of the Diesel car is 1 lakh more, which means the EMI would about 2000/pm more, for a 5 year loan. So, a person would still be spending Rs. 2153 less per month with diesel. So, it makes perfect sense to go for Diesel, with the figures below, as you are saving 2153 pm from the start in total car ownership.

Tech, if you could figure out, what is the exact amount of mileage per month, so that the total cost of ownership for petrol and diesel is the same, then that could be the benchmark figure for people to decide on.

PS: If you are buying the car with cash, please excuse.
PPS: If you have 6 lakhs lying around, you shouldn' really be worrying about mileage, etc. etc.



Quote:
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Below are the updated calculations for a high usage of around 20000 km per yr -

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Old 26th January 2007, 17:02   #109
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tech your figures are great, with one flaw, the extra 15000 quoted.
First 2 years are going to be free due to warranty, and after that too why should diesel take so much more.
I drive a diesel indica, and the extra repair cost which I can attribute to the diesel engine over these 75000kms is approximately 2000rs for repairs and 5000rs for more frequent services.

All other faliures have been regarding electricals etc., no way related to the engine.
So for 20,000kms a year a better number for extra maintainance costs, even if you want to be on the high side is 2000rs.

Add to that the EMI angle, in this segment as most people buy with loan, as mentioned in previous posts, the diesel swift works out to be cheaper even if you take 16kmpl
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Old 26th January 2007, 19:21   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech View Post
The prices are approximate On Road Prices for DELHI. For eg Swift Lxi - Approx On Road cost of 426000 less 18000 discount in Accessories or cash discount - So net On Road cost is 408,000. For Swift Ldi there will be no sales schemes and approx on road cost will be 512,000.
How is it fair to consider the discounts too???
Discounts come and go... Within two months, the Swift Diesel may also get discounts to push sales...
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Old 26th January 2007, 21:16   #111
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Great calculations "Tech" I made similar to what you did, at least one has to cover 50,000KM or more than that to see any thing usefull in terms of money for Swift Diesel.

But I strongly doubt status of Diesel car with 50,000KM clocked equal to
1,00,000KM covered Petrol car.

Diesel Swift make sense for the person who travels frequently or Diesel lover or for Taxy operators.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 26th January 2007, 22:00   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
Great calculations "Tech" I made similar to what you did, at least one has to cover 50,000KM or more than that to see any thing usefull in terms of money for Swift Diesel.
There is...

Paying an amount for a car, doesnt evoke as much reaction as paying money for fuel... Paying some extra money on car is generally considered as a partial asset... While paying extra money on fules is considered wastage...

Please allow me to explain... (cause i know the above paragraph is rather confusing cause of my inablility to express properly what i have in mind)

I have a wagonR currently... It returns a pretty decent mileage... And... There are not much of diesel options available in the segment (Except for the Indica diesel- ruled out... And the Indica turbo diesel- expensive)...

Now, my father doesnt really like the fact that we have to pay such and such amounts for our trips... And he hates the idea of paying so much for petrol... he says we we should have bought a Duo in the first place...

Now, you guys must also be thinking Duo makes more sense than WagonR petrol... But consider this too... We dont do over 1000 kms a month... For the past 7 years i had the Maruti 800, we did around 500 kms a month only (average). Now, that i have bike too... The wagonR wont have much of running... But still, he doesnt like paying for fuel...

Its more like... Extra money spent on the car is supposed to get you something back in return... But extra money spent on fuel is wasted after the trip...

Its not just that... I had a drive to cochin and back two months back, in my friends Accent CRDi... HE could do the trip with 1000rs worth of diesel... Now, for a smaller car like mine, it would have required around than 1800 rs of petrol... Which we students cant certainly afford... (I didnt have to pay for that drive anyways, cause i went with him for driving only... It was his need to run down to cochin... he he)

Now, with Modern diesel engines being very good at driveability and giving the petrols a good run for their money... And also, not inviting much of maintainence costs, and commanding more resale value than the petrols (Accent CRDi, Indigo, Innova, fiesta, etc being case in point)...

I feel its justfied to pay a premium for a good (and i mean it... TATA engines dont count in this category yet... no argument... Just my humble opinion) diesel car...

If i am to upgrade from the WagonR to Swift, i would go for diesel, even with this low mileage... Cause, one factor, my father would let me take the car out for a spin a lot more often... and two... I hate the idea that the guys at the petrol pump are becoming good friend (due to regular visits to the pump)...


Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 26th January 2007 at 22:04.
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Old 26th January 2007, 22:59   #113
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with CrAzY dRiVeR. ..Hey lets negotiate Tech!. Please adjust the resale in the calculations. I assume 10% atleast is premium we get from Diesel when we sell it after 3-4 years!!
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Old 26th January 2007, 23:36   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohitbagai View Post
with CrAzY dRiVeR. ..Hey lets negotiate Tech!. Please adjust the resale in the calculations. I assume 10% atleast is premium we get from Diesel when we sell it after 3-4 years!!
With the rising petrol prices (even diesel though) diesel is cheaper and companies are concentrating more on diesel now days. The resale will be more than 10% in the coming years. If 1 buy a Swift D today he sure will get 10 - 15 % more on resale value. This can be more in coming years..
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Old 27th January 2007, 08:18   #115
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Hi CrAzY dRiVeR,

I can see your point and thats what most of the people think and If we think practicality and make maths I am sure table prepared Tech makes more sense!

Resale value of D Swift may be 10-15% more or if its flop car then much less but we pay 20% extra for Swift D while buying.

Its just Indian talents calculation that results thinking Diesel is cheaper. Even by any debate no one can convince this fatcor to people.

I agree your point 100% thats what people think although I still advise Diesel for a person who clocks more mailege.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 27th January 2007, 08:33   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
Hi CrAzY dRiVeR,
I can see your point and thats what most of the people think and If we think practicality and make maths I am sure table prepared Tech makes more sense!
Resale value of D Swift may be 10-15% more or if its flop car then much less but we pay 20% extra for Swift D while buying.
Its just Indian talents calculation that results thinking Diesel is cheaper. Even by any debate no one can convince this fatcor to people.
I agree your point 100% thats what people think although I still advise Diesel for a person who clocks more mailege.


Thats what i am saying..

I know Tech's calculation is correct...

But, its not that simple making the 'public' (including my father as mentioned above) understand that fact so easily...
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Old 27th January 2007, 10:42   #117
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For Diesels its all about the usage... Myself and my friend bought cars aroun same time.. 2 weeks difference... He owns Indigo Diesel and I own Palio 1.2 Sport..

He has to put 1000/- per month for fuel and so do I.. The only difference is the distance we travel in same 1000/- . So its as simple as that... More running, Diesel makes sense...

Cheers
NeoOnWheels
Palio 1.2 Sport
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Old 27th January 2007, 11:52   #118
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From Swift website following are ex-showroom prices in Mumbai.

Swift Petrol Lxi 416485
Swift Petrol Vxi 443924
Swift Petrol VXi (ABS) 464962
Swift Diesel LDi 484961
Swift Diesel VDi 514400
Swift Petrol Zxi 528096

Zxi on road is about 587000 so VDi on road will be about 571880. The ABS will be about additional 23400. Thus VDi(ABS) will be about 596000.
This sale person at Vitesse also indicated that VDi(ABS) will be very near 6L but less than 6L.
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Old 27th January 2007, 11:59   #119
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Beisdes i think diesel performs better than the petrol on all factors except outright performance... How many of us redline our cars for performance?
For everyday driving in cities and highways i think diesel car is better with all that torque and efficiency. Swift diesel should do very well but i have doubts abt its utilitarian value which is a factor when buying a diesel car, the Indica and upcoming palio with the same JTD engine are more practical.
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Old 27th January 2007, 12:24   #120
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Some auto magazine did a survey long time back about running etc., costs of petrol vs diesel.
They found out that the diesel owners spend more on their cars as per service costs, and also the amount they spend on fuel is not much less than the petrol guys. Reason? On an average a diesel car owner drives much more than a petrol car owners.
When we had petrol cars monthly running was less. The bajaj used to come out more often(mid - late nineties). As soon as a diesel sipper came in early 2000, car trips increases, including useless drives!
So all those people who say we do only 1500kms a month, if you get a diesel you will see yourself doing those late night drives on empty highways pushing the usage to 2000+ a month.
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