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Old 15th August 2004, 02:20   #31
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Aditya , if u talk abt power increse , the Kompressor was a proven product in the MB international line up, It was only just introduced in India , when they faced some serious power competition as the C180 was a underpowered car. So actually it is not a new product .

The old E240 engine conking off twice is pathetic, now if they really care for the customer , they should have given the customer a New E class only
thats what we can call " Genuine goodwill"
I think that MB India dosent use the the same quality materials in the car that they use in other developed countries

ANd if u talk abt power battle , MErc in India was always a loser and also currently is in the power battle
It has never become the power leader in any segment except for the diesel category ( E 270 CDI) , where it actually has no compitition except the imported BMWs
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Old 15th August 2004, 02:34   #32
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Hey Dipen,
I was talking about Mercedes Benz in developed countries after reading the links provided by GTO.
Addy
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Old 15th August 2004, 04:30   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]
While Mercedes-Benz have gotten themselves into the pointless German power struggle with BMW and released a whole truckload of new models worldwide, they seem to have forgotten the most important aspect that their cars were famous for - Quality!
True. But it had more to do with the japanese marques going luxurious than competition from BMW.

The end 80's saw some serious cash crunch in the developed countries...and with that , people changed the name plate on their foreheads from "I AM RICH" to "I AM SMART". 1986 saw the launch of Acura by Honda, as also...Lexus from Toyota and Infiniti from Nissan. All these Japanese car makers knew that no one was going to pay $30,000 upward for 4 door Hondas...and thus successfully created a separate identity.

What happened to Mercedes and BMW sales? They plummeted, I dont remember the exact figures now, but think it was like losing 40% sales in a span of 4 years leading up to 1991. Acura, Lexus and to a lesser extent Infiniti were selling like hot cakes. Why? Coz they did offer luxury, refinement and status (The brands were marketing and positioned really well) that was close to the Mercs and Beemers. Buttttttttttttttttttttt at thousands of $$$ less in MRP, almost 100% uptime and reliability and maintenance bills that were not much larger than that of Accords and Camrys.

This is when Mercedes decided to build cars to a pricepoint. The first time in its history ever. They actually got a couple of top guys from Toyota and a handful from Honda & Mazda to learn costcutting in the production line. While the previous Mercs (W124, W126 etc.) were built and overengineered 10 times over...price was never an issue. It was decided upon after completion of the design. With the new Mercs, price was going to be everything. They had to lower prices in the market, and squeezed all their suppliers dry. German engineers just didnt have it to cost-cut and work toward $$$ efficiency.

To say that Mercs have lost the supreme and outrageous superiority over the competition is an understatement.

I can make you meet a very senior person at Auto Hangar, Mumbai who says...quote..."Rush, you ought to buy the best Merc ever sold in India. The W124!! The current gen cant hold a candle to that"

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Old 15th August 2004, 04:35   #34
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P.S. In 1990, Acura sold as many cars in the US as Mercedes & BMW combined.

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Old 15th August 2004, 12:42   #35
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My posting on this topic is based only on the facts that after owning a few mercs in last 4-5 years I do believe I can put better judgements on ownership experiences and also knowing a few people here who have BMW's 5 , 7 and the new 7 too. So just another message to all here nothing is personal here. And ask those BMW guys how horrible their experience is and you guys would understand things better. A simple example is weeks old 7 series suspension fails and then the owner has to bare costs of transport etc. And till date has no valid answer or the car which needs to be inspected by some german guys... anyways lets not get into any MB v/s BMW fights because I think both are great companies with their own guidelines..

One thing is i've realised a lot of you'll think the Mercedes-Benz is in a power struggle with BMW, Well they are not. Mercedes-Benz AMG division is just a bunch of naughty guys who keep exploring possibilities and remember one thing Mercedes-Benz has always been torque crazy back since the days of SEL's etc. So please for the love of god just get ur wrong notions away.

Esp. about your comments Dipen. You think Mercedes-Benz India did not wish to offer clear headlamps? Let me tell you one thing the mercedes you see on indian roads is the same you will see in other countries! Clear headlamps is not a big deal and they have their own product lifecycle to follow and ask any of the current C class owners if they were really bothered by the clear headlamps not being present. Hopefully GTO will agree on this. Coming to the price increase well it is very well justified considering the Euro costs etc. The last thing MBIL does is cheat people with prices man. I have a quote by Navnit motors BMW let me know if you want i'll show you what cheating means, ofcourse they do it to save costs but still I do not appreciate any kind of cheating. You think MB India is lazy? Think again! And they are not just banking on the 3 pointed star, they have reasons good enough to sell the C200K and C220CDI, not every car is to be bought with just Bhp figures in mind and if thats your priority then go ahead and get yourself a C55 or C320 etc.
Another thing is C180 was discontinued not only in India but worldwide when MB introduced the C180K, C200K & C230K so please get your details corrected because if you remember for 2 months in the year 2003 MBIL sold 180K's until the new C200K was homologated. Another thing is MB india does use the same quality of parts in their Indian cars compared to any other car abroad.

GTO, well you drive a Mercedes-Benz and ill tell you this much though i have no clue how much you love / hate Mercedes-Benz, with time they will get back to quality better then 126's and 124's and then we meet again!!



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Old 15th August 2004, 13:08   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (S350L-E240 @ Aug. 15 2004,11:12)]The last thing MBIL does is cheat people with prices

Another thing is MB india does use the same quality of parts in their Indian cars compared to any other car abroad.

GTO, well you drive a Mercedes-Benz and ill tell you this much though i have no clue how much you love / hate Mercedes-Benz, with time they will get back to quality better then 126's and 124's and then we meet again!!
very true 350, in fact i remember mbil winning the best factory or manufactring award for 3 years in a row

dont know abt any lemon bmws, but they too must have had thier own share of problems

now lets just hope mb resloves the matter as quickly as possible


and s350 do post on the other topics too man, not only on this
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Old 16th August 2004, 01:57   #37
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Well I have been following this thread for sometime now, and have come to some conclusions

1. Merc or no Merc, u cant get away without extended warranties and free services during the first year. Remember, this is India. We all grew up with Maruti, Premier and HM providing us free services, then onto Hyundai, Honda et all with their extended warranties and now Mercedes. The mentality won't change, and if Mercedes thinks it will then they should stop doing business here.

2. Sure, MBIL has won the best quality award amongst the other MB factories worldwide, but that doesn't mean problems won't happen or is a sure shot guarantee for that. Now tell me whom are we comparing the Indian operations with; Stuttgart, South Africa and US being the primary contenders. And look at the JD Power ratings in just these countries alone, you'll realise that they are way behind marques like Hyundai and Toyota! So being able to build a car better than that means you are building at the same level that Hyundai and Toyota do here, no great achievement honey.

3. Look at their lineup and you and I will be confused. C, CL, CLK, CLS, S, SLK, SL, E, M, A and Smart. BMW on the other hand have 1,3,5,6,7,X5,X3,Z and mini. 11 vs 9 models. The point is simple, too many models means far too much R&D to be done and when time is a constraint you make some cost-cutting measures. Result? GTO's C180 and Sahil's E problems and numerous other unhappy customers the world over. Sure I blame even BMW for their recent quality issues to expanding its model range too fast. But i guess their overall quality rating hasn't had as much a dip as Mercedes.

I don't personally see Mercedes's fortunes in India having a great go. Audi comes to India next month, BMW sometime later and Lexus in a matter of two years. Even Alfa might be here in a span of two years. Carlos Ghosn has announced the imminent spread of Infiniti to Europe and Russia and some "emerging" Asian markets. So expect it to be here in 3-5 years. Let me put it this way, when u spend Rs. 40 lakhs on a car and u have some options, just a good service network won't save u. A good product also plays its part. And that is where Mercedes may be found wanting and might lose marketshare big time. I hope they buckle up sooner than later.

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Old 16th August 2004, 10:06   #38
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Well, I know of one committed Merc guy in India who has sold his w210 and bought a Honda Accord - no point in paying exaggerated service bills.
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Old 17th August 2004, 00:48   #39
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Ok let me add another bad turned good experience for a merc c owner..the C class caught fire in the garage, initially the merc guys blamed it on a short circuit due to eaten wires(mice trouble) but after inspection came to the conclusion that this was not the case and replace the car with the brand new E..now lets have some discussion about this..which car company would do that...replacement fine..with the same model..but here merc india replaced with an upgraded twice as expensive E..

see high tech and high end cars all have problems because soo much goes in them...i agree mb does have few issues but largely I would say that..they are great cars if kept fine..we have never had any issues with 2 of our cars...and I know many who dont as well..but i guess its still high time merc catches up with its name...
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Old 17th August 2004, 00:56   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (Revvmaster @ Aug. 15 2004,12:27)]Well I have been following this thread for sometime now, and have come to some conclusions

1. Merc or no Merc, u cant get away without extended warranties and free services during the first year. Remember, this is India. We all grew up with Maruti, Premier and HM providing us free services, then onto Hyundai, Honda et all with their extended warranties and now Mercedes. The mentality won't change, and if Mercedes thinks it will then they should stop doing business here.

2. Sure, MBIL has won the best quality award amongst the other MB factories worldwide, but that doesn't mean problems won't happen or is a sure shot guarantee for that. Now tell me whom are we comparing the Indian operations with; Stuttgart, South Africa and US being the primary contenders. And look at the JD Power ratings in just these countries alone, you'll realise that they are way behind marques like Hyundai and Toyota! So being able to build a car better than that means you are building at the same level that Hyundai and Toyota do here, no great achievement honey.

3. Look at their lineup and you and I will be confused. C, CL, CLK, CLS, S, SLK, SL, E, M, A and Smart. BMW on the other hand have 1,3,5,6,7,X5,X3,Z and mini. 11 vs 9 models. The point is simple, too many models means far too much R&D to be done and when time is a constraint you make some cost-cutting measures. Result? GTO's C180 and Sahil's E problems and numerous other unhappy customers the world over. Sure I blame even BMW for their recent quality issues to expanding its model range too fast. But i guess their overall quality rating hasn't had as much a dip as Mercedes.

I don't personally see Mercedes's fortunes in India having a great go. Audi comes to India next month, BMW sometime later and Lexus in a matter of two years. Even Alfa might be here in a span of two years. Carlos Ghosn has announced the imminent spread of Infiniti to Europe and Russia and some "emerging" Asian markets. So expect it to be here in 3-5 years. Let me put it this way, when u spend Rs. 40 lakhs on a car and u have some options, just a good service network won't save u. A good product also plays its part. And that is where Mercedes may be found wanting and might lose marketshare big time. I hope they buckle up sooner than later.

Revv
mercs lineup is really huge...bmw is trying to catch up with that..with the introduction of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,X7 etc..but I also know that there are many merc introductions as well..
MLX, R, RL, CLS, GL, etc..

They seriously need to think for sometime..give it 1/2 gen gap between releasing another model lineup in my opinion..too many cars does lead to too many issues..and I wouldnt want merc and bmw to get into big time trouble..but at the same time i have hope in them..

and on a seperate note..infinitis..wow!! cant wait for them to come to india..or europe so that we can import them...they are just perfect cars..for the price..

Cheers..
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Old 17th August 2004, 02:41   #41
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Buying a Mercedes-Benz C-Class Saloon is just the start of a long partnership. With MobiloLife*, we guarantee to keep you mobile for 30 years.

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MobiloLife is renewed after every service performed by a Mercedes-Benz Authorised Repairer, and can be transferred between owners.
Excerpt taken from Mercedes-Benz.co.uk



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Old 17th August 2004, 14:21   #42
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Quote:
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Quote[/b] ]

i agree mb does have few issues but largely I would say that..they are great cars if kept fine..we have never had any issues with 2 of our cars...and I know many who dont as well..but i guess its still high time merc catches up with its name...
There is absolutely no doubting the fact that Mercedes' are great cars, buttttttttttt when on the road and not in the garage for yet another frustating repair. This thread is not taking away the strong attributes of a Mercedes, but spreading the word about the embarassing unreliability of a machine which commands a huge price premium over similar equipped cars. And mind you, its not only limited to the C Class but spreads to the E Class as well.

Of course, there will always be those who are happy with their cars...just like there are satisfied Tata Indica owners (even of the problematic first batch), but the bottomline is that a vast majority of owners arent. And this is proven in the JD Quality survey worldwide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] ]see high tech and high end cars all have problems because soo much goes in them...
Thats more an apology of an excuse than anything else. There is absolutely no justification from a car manufacturer that the more technology a car has...it should break down more often. When you are manufacturing a million cars per annum, you had better make sure that the technology works. Being modern for the heck of it is not going to get you anywhere, and Mercedes has realised this the hard way. Imagine being placed behind Hyundai and Chrysler in quality...jeez, Karl Benz must be turning in his grave!!

I'll tell you another thing about technology, its initially available only in high-end cars...but slowly filters down to the most entry level segment too. Look at airbags, power steering, GPS, traction control, abs, cd changers, leather seats....they were all only the stake of high end luxury cars initially but now you will find them on world best sellers such as the Corolla too.

GTO

P.S. - Guess what the top exec of Auto Hangar (Bombays Mercedes dealer) uses as his daily driver? Why...our very own Honda Accord V6. You will spot it outside the showroom every day, its golden with lovely alloys and skirts.
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Old 17th August 2004, 14:48   #43
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Quote[/b] ]Why...our very own Honda Accord V6. You will spot it outside the showroom every day, its golden with lovely alloys and skirts.
its not the Mugen Honda is it?? does it have twin tailpipes??
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Old 17th August 2004, 15:13   #44
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Oh man that golden accord with the entire kit looks Amazing!! only if it were some other color it would look killer...say black or even white would have looked much better...I have seen it outside the auto hanger showroom in worli several times too...one of the obvious reasons he has an accord is because Linkway Honda is apart of Auto Hanger.... How much do u think that whole kit and alloys would cost?
Back to the mercedes topic...just today my C-class is back to the showroom for repairs for the 100000000th time!! The electronic seat adjustment just jammed and the backrest just wouldnt move the electronic system just died..the seats go only front back for leg room adjustment... Well just got it sent to the showroom and the guy is like will cost 9000+ as water has gone into the whole electronic system in the seat! My dad asked him is there any damage to the seat from my end he said no the water just seeped in some how ... the arguement continued when my dad said WHAT THE HELL IS MY FAULT IF U MADE A DEFECT IN THE CAR AND WATER GOES IN ON ITS OWN!! Also warned him if he doesnt get it done my dads gonna go send the car to the factory in poona again! I think the guy is abit scared now was just trying to pull out more money for such a small problem from what i feel of its just a fuse problem doesnt seem big at all... Anyways will have to wait and watch happens at the end of the day ...Sick of this damn car!!



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Old 17th August 2004, 15:32   #45
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I maynot have owned a Merc nor have I any long term experiences with them but, the last time i sat is Rush's C 180, this is what i found. The ride quality wasn't all that great, i've had a much better experience in a Camry.

It doesn't excite you when you push the right pedal. Interiors are well designed but then, there are others that can match it.

All i wanna say is that the Merc might do well in countries where the driving conditions are ideal, but in India, that's just not possible. Like S350 has said, Merc is supposed to be using the same parts in the Indian versions as in the other Mercs, world-wide. Now that could be one of the main reasons why it's been facing so many reliability issues here.

Launching a car in India isn't really that easy as the driving conditions are so different. While the German Mercs float of silky smooth Autobahns, their siblings over here have to tackle potholes and speed-breakers on a daily basis. So, it makes no sense in bringing a Merc to India without it having, parts that are custom made for Indian conditions.

Moreover, Mercedes should have been at the top of the JD power list as they make the least number of cars in India. How can companies like Hyundai and Maruti have a better JD rating, even after have a production number that's 3-4 (or more) times bigger than Mercedes?

Think about it, isn't it easier to make 10 perfect cars in comparison to making 100 perfect cars?

Regards...
Shan2nu
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